Pilot Pay

CARO · Post by **CARO** » Sat May 20, 2006 3:55 pm

If your employer asks you to do a test flight on a plane, should you be paid for that time?

neiva · Post by **neiva** » Sat May 20, 2006 4:00 pm

I wonder who is going to vote "No"

+RASH · Post by **+RASH** » Sat May 20, 2006 5:59 pm

You are doing work and you should payed for it.

AV8OR · Post by **AV8OR** » Sat May 20, 2006 7:17 pm

Yeah, but who in here actually does? I work for a flight school, that won't be happening.

ahramin · Post by **ahramin** » Sat May 20, 2006 7:24 pm

I don't get it. I assume you guys get paid by the flight hour?

No pay, no work. That simple.

bush pilot · Post by **bush pilot** » Sat May 20, 2006 7:46 pm

Well it depends on how you get paid at said job. If you get paid a per hour rate, but only with a student then maybe you should geta fraction of that for a test flight. If you get so much per day (base) and then so much per mile then you should get paid a block time of how long the test flight was for and how far your a/c could have travelled in that time. Last but not least if you are paid sallary then suck it up and do the job you are paid for, if you do not think it is right then try to get a bit of a raise to cover those types of flights.

bizjet_mania · Post by **bizjet_mania** » Sat May 20, 2006 9:26 pm

If I hired someone and told them I want to see their flying skill so I can decide if I should keep them and they said pay me or I dont work, I say enjoy your trip home...NEXT!

CARO · Post by **CARO** » Sat May 20, 2006 9:44 pm

bizjet_mania wrote:If I hired someone and told them I want to see their flying skill so I can decide if I should keep them and they said pay me or I dont work, I say enjoy your trip home...NEXT!

I think you are misinterpreting the question.

By "test flight" I mean a flight to check for any problems with an a/c, not a flight to check for any problems with the pilot.

jetway · Post by **jetway** » Sun May 21, 2006 5:37 am

CARO wrote: By "test flight" I mean a flight to check for any problems with an a/c, not a flight to check for any problems with the pilot.

i don't see why you shouldn't do a test flight unless you do not feel qualified to indentify the things that may go Ping during your flight.
Along with the maintenance engineers, this is part of your job; to assure you equipment is serviceable. I realize the industry is turning in our favour as pilots; but this is however not a reason to turn into assholes and demand to be paid for displaying good work ethics and airmanship. If the company you work for has specifically stated that your "flight pay" is when revenue flights are being performed, then no...no extra pay. If they are somehow receiving revenue for this test flight, then sure. Divide the wealth.
Don't forget that a walkaround is also part of your duties, and you do it, even though "flight pay" isn't issued for that duty.

Be reasonable: did you get a call at 3am for a test flight? Do your employers trust you to ask you to do a test flight? ask yourself many quetions and give your own answer. If you want pay and they don't give it to you, then don't do the flight. But then don't expect them to look at you as a "team" player...or get that extra day off...you scratch their back, yadda yadda yadda.

Airmanship isn't just in the air.

edited to clarify what the hell I was trying to say..

Caracrane · Post by **Caracrane** » Sun May 21, 2006 5:59 am

10% brown nosers so far........pathetic

bob sacamano · Post by **bob sacamano** » Sun May 21, 2006 6:35 am

Any time you work, get PAID.

Test flight or driving to get mail, put the km as well.

Oh, and this is for flight instructors too.

Stand up for yourselves for Bob's sake!

bizjet_mania · Post by **bizjet_mania** » Sun May 21, 2006 7:59 am

oh ok in that case then yes you should be paid to test fly their crap.

jetway · Post by **jetway** » Sun May 21, 2006 8:17 am

doesn't ANYBODY get paid salary anymore? doesn't ANYBODY have a list of what is expected from them that they get when they are hired? There should be NO GREY AREAS when you are hired!!! Doesn't anybody actually enjoy or have pride in where they work or pride in their machines? Is it all just willy-nilly out there? Oh well. Excuse me now, I have to go wash my jet, I mean the company's jet, along with the FA and the FO... I guess we should put in a time sheet for that...

or at least say no to the bevies and snacks provided by the boss.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sun May 21, 2006 8:29 am

Yet another stupid question! Get off your knees people!

JayVee · Post by **JayVee** » Sun May 21, 2006 9:00 am

jetway, if getting paid for work performed turns one into an asshole, then I've been an asshole for a very long time.

Your first sentence is a clear argument FOR being paid for test flights, yes, I am qualified and have the experience to identify things that go ping, therefore my expertise isn't free. If I'm a mouth-breathing, crackly-voiced neophyte who sports wood at the sound of a Cessna, and I'm of the I-can't-believe-they-pay-me-to-fly belief, then I'd probably jump at the chance to be used as free ballast, however, as a professional pilot when I work I get paid.
Don't confuse airmanship and pride with working for free. I practice excellent airmanship, and I'm proud of what I do, where I work, etc., but when I work, I get paid.
Where I work, the walkaround is performed while on duty for the company and I get paid a duty credit for it.
.

jetway · Post by **jetway** » Sun May 21, 2006 9:17 am

This is where the "know what your duties are" comes into play. If you are ONLY getting paid when you fly, then sure. If you are on salary, then go over the contract or whatever verbal agreement (!) you made when you got hired. It baffles me that this question has to be asked in the first place. Take responsibility for your own actions. KNOW WHAT YOUR JOB IS!!!

I guess I think one should know what they are and what they do at a company instead of coming to a public forum for help. Granted, my salary is pretty good. I love where i work, and don't think twice about stopping by the hangar voluntarily after a snow storm in the winter (if I am stuck in Canada or some other snowy locale) to see if they need help shoveling out the doors. Why not? if I get called and that plane can't get out of the hangar, who looses? ME.

I guess if a plane needs a simple 0.3 test flight and your flight tomorrow hinges on the plane being signed off AND you are on salary, i don't see why not. On a day off? no. At 3 am? no. on penalty of loosing money or other flights? bust your duty to do this test flight? no.

What it comes down is : what is your job? and if you don't know, then how are you supposed to take a stand.

short bus · Post by **short bus** » Sun May 21, 2006 11:20 am

hmm, 10 people voted for No or keep your mouth shut, and 10 people voted that it's okay to lie about your times in your logbook. I think we have a connection here.

CARO · Post by **CARO** » Sun May 21, 2006 1:33 pm

Ok, just to clarify. If I get asked to do a test flight (or any flight for that matter) I assume that it is part of my job and hence will involve some pay. You shouldn't have to ask every time you are asked to fly if you will be payed. In this case there was no flight pay, no base pay, no salary, no pay whatsoever.
I just want to see if there are pilots out there who will fly for absolutely nothing. Please leave your names and numbers, and I will call you next time I'm asked to fly for free. Cuz I aint doin it.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sun May 21, 2006 2:47 pm

The subject has never come up. If one of us is asked to do a test flight, we just assume we'll get paid for it...and we do. I would think everyone else gets paid for test flights as well. I have only had a company ask me to fly for free once...and that was to the Bahamas to pick up an airplane...but they covered my expenses, and allowed me to spend three days on the island! Then there were the (several) little drinks with lots of rum, and a few little perks they never found out about...but didn't mind it on their credit card...but, I'll admit it...I did the trip for free!

CARO · Post by **CARO** » Sun May 21, 2006 3:18 pm

Well, I guess that's the thing. I would think most pilots become pilots because they truly enjoy flying. If you don't have your own plane, in some cases flying for free is better than not flying at all. Your trip to the Bahamas would definitely qualify in my books, but coming in early one morning to do 20 minute test flights on several machines does not. I guess it's a personal thing. When I started learning to fly I would gladly fly a 150 for free, but that thrill is long gone (if flying a 150 can be described as a thrill).

The point is operators exploit this lust for flying that some pilots still have for their own financial reasons, and that's what has to stop.

I posted this question knowing damn well it's a stupid question, but yet as you can see the answer is not unanymous.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sun May 21, 2006 3:49 pm

Part of it is, when you are actually flying for a living, the "lust" for flight is often replaced by the "lust" for money!

jetway · Post by **jetway** » Sun May 21, 2006 4:22 pm

i see. If it's a trip to a nice place with a warm climate, then it's OK to fly for expenses only. But to fly for 20 minutes around a shitty airport before your flight, then it's not. i get it now.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sun May 21, 2006 4:35 pm

Well, if you call three nights in a five star resort, great meals every night, and all I could drink, with two scuba dives, all thrown in on the company credit, "not getting paid to fly", then you just keep smoking whatever it is you are smoking!!

water wings · Post by **water wings** » Sun May 21, 2006 4:51 pm

humph... interesting. I got sent to Cuba for 5 days and stayed at a an all inclusive...but i still got paid as i was considered working/on duty but didn't actually do anything productive for the company.

per diems = MOJITOS!!!!

CARO · Post by **CARO** » Sun May 21, 2006 5:01 pm

Hey water wings, I bet it wasn't like this when you were at the white wolf.

Pilot Pay

Should pilots be paid if asked to do test flights for their operator?

Pilot Pay