A380 vertical and lateral separation

bmc · Post by **bmc** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:18 pm

I had coffee this morning with an ATC who told me that the A380 will have 2,000 feet vertical separation and 15 miles separation instead of normal 4 mile separation, due to possible turbulance. Not sure if this has been discussed on the boards or not. That is going to cost airlines and impact airport arrivals.

Raydar · Post by **Raydar** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:26 pm

It's true, and it would be 15 miles instead of six not four for a heavy remember... That whole A380 is a dumb idea in my opinion. Think about waiting to load, unload, clear customs and pick up your luggage. In this day and age you would think faster aircraft not slower with more people. But you are right the biggest problem will be for terminal controllers who are going to have to clear loads of airspace for the 380. But apparently the 747 went through similar spacing requirements when it first came out and now it is no different then any other heavy aircraft.

bmc · Post by **bmc** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:35 pm

Imagine the impact to LHR in the morning with Emirates, Qatar and Singapore arriving. Those three could delay 2-3 flights. At peak hours, when are those flights going to get sorted?

I have zero interest in flying on that machine. Imagine immigration?

C-FABH · Post by **C-FABH** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:07 pm

Raydar wrote:That whole A380 is a dumb idea in my opinion. Think about waiting to load, unload, clear customs and pick up your luggage. In this day and age you would think faster aircraft not slower with more people...But apparently the 747 went through similar spacing requirements when it first came out and now it is no different then any other heavy aircraft.

Yes, and those identical thoughts were expressed during the initial 747 release. And they've all been proven to be wrong.

twinpratts · Post by **twinpratts** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 7:29 pm

Yeah, the fact that there would be lineups at customs isn't a problem for the airlines... let the airport authority deal with that one. 'My job was to get them here. Now... who's ready to load for the next departure!'
I think the industry will adapt, it always does.
So sign me up.
My 2 cents worth...

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 7:59 pm

If you're going to sit and watch a computer fly, it may as well be that one. They'll figure it out soon enough.

STL

tripleseven · Post by **tripleseven** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 7:59 pm

bmc wrote:Imagine the impact to LHR in the morning with Emirates, Qatar and Singapore arriving. Those three could delay 2-3 flights. At peak hours, when are those flights going to get sorted?

I have zero interest in flying on that machine. Imagine immigration?

Immigration won't be a problem as long as you are not trying to enter Canada. We have the least efficient customs agents that I have seen.

Hong Kong was the best I've seen. Several heavies landing at the same time, and I couldn't even set my carry-on down because the line was constantly moving.

john holmes · Post by **john holmes** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 9:35 pm

So how much separation does the Antonov 225 require? It has a higher MTOW than the A380 or what about a C5A it must be right up there as well.

bmc · Post by **bmc** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:34 pm

tripleseven wrote: Immigration won't be a problem as long as you are not trying to enter Canada. We have the least efficient customs agents that I have seen.

I was thinking specifically about LHR Terminal 3. Qatar and Emirates will be full of traffic from the sub continent. All three operate into T3.

I think it'll be a long time before you see them in Canada on a sched basis. The airplane is ideal for huge markets, slot constrained airports and low yield traffic. Perfect machine for LHR.

I'll fly on it at some point.

I agree about HKG arrivals. They have 218 customs positions.

Pygmie · Post by **Pygmie** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:54 am

The 15NM, 2,000ft. separation required is only a temporary restriction until testing can be conducted to determine actual requirements. Every large aircraft, INCLUDING the C5 and the Antonovs had the same initial restrictions, as did the B747s when they were being initially tested.

bmc · Post by **bmc** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:38 am

I'm curious to know what will be the turning point to bring a new airplane into standard separation criteria. Trial and error? In this day of computer simulation, I'm curious to know why they wouldn't know that up front.

ei ei owe · Post by **ei ei owe** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:11 pm

So how much separation does the Antonov 225 require? It has a higher MTOW than the A380 or what about a C5A it must be right up there as well.

Don't see too many of those in terminal airspace. Just route them during off peak times if you had to. Besides, the USA Afgan routes aren't too busy with civilian planes these days.