So I am on the ground in Denver waiting for the passengers to arrive so we can head back home. I file a flight plan for 1400Z (estimated time the passengers arrive and we are good to go). The passengers arrive a little late for unimportant reasons, and engine start is at 1420Z (only 20 minutes late and still well within limits).
I contact clearance delivery for my IFR clearance only to be told that there is no flight plan on file. I confirm filing one, we double check my A/C ident and my destination airport, still nothing. Clearance delivery therefore tells me to contact FSS on a certain frequency. So I switch the frequency over on COMM 2 and start calling them. No answer whatsoever, they can't hear us, we can't hear them.
So I switch back to clearance delivery and explain to them that the frequency they gave me doesn't work. They tell me it usually doesn't but it's the only frequency that they have and that they can't give me anything so I'll have to call FSS with my cell phone.
At this point I am getting annoyed at how little help I am getting even though it's a slow day. It's not this guy's fault that they lost the flight plan, but hey guess what, it's not mine and sure as hell isn't my passengers either. So 20 minutes have gone by, fuel is burning away and my passengers are in the back wondering what the hell is going on and why we aren't moving.
So I start looking through my flight bag to find my cell phone to call FSS because this airport controller won't help and they have a dumb FSS frenquency that we can use but doesn't work... Pretty much out of options... Thank god for cell phones right? NO.
I dial the American FSS number, only to hear that this call can not be completed from my area probably because my cell phone has a canadian are code and for some reason the stupid system thinks I am calling from Canada. Almost out of options I dial the Canadian FSS number to file with them and hope that they can help me out, only to find in sheer amazement that when I dial the number it says the same thing: Call can not be completed from this region. Pilot next to me tries with his cell phone, same problem...
So I am stuck on the ground, no flight plan, no other way to get one, clearance delivery won't help and we've lost close to half an hour with all this messing around.
To make a long story short we had to unload the passengers, get the FBO van to pick us up again, go inside, file again, wait for it to be approved, and haul the passengers back. I understand that mistakes happen, but that was just ridiculous...
Pure BS
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corporate joe
- Rank 8
- Posts: 754
- Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 8:18 am
- Location: the coast
Pure BS
The 3 most important things to remember when you're old:
1) Never pass an opportunity to use a washroom
2) Never waste a hard on
3) Never trust a fart
John Mayer
1) Never pass an opportunity to use a washroom
2) Never waste a hard on
3) Never trust a fart
John Mayer
I had the same problem on a trip from Portland. I was dialing the US FSS number from my cell, no result. I thought they up and changed all the numbers on me until I tried a land line - which worked just fine. Fortunately, they didn't lose my plan and my clearance was waiting.
Still, I've had that happen in Edmonton a few times where they've just whipped up a clearance for us (Where are you going? What altitude? Okay, ready to copy?). Too bad they couldn't do the same for you.
Still, I've had that happen in Edmonton a few times where they've just whipped up a clearance for us (Where are you going? What altitude? Okay, ready to copy?). Too bad they couldn't do the same for you.
Have you tried TEB on a busy day...
We asked Clearance if there were delays over our departure fix.
The response was "call us back when your passengers are onboard and we will check".
We loaded the passengers and called Clearance only to be switched to Gate Hold.
Gate hold states " due to volume, your route is ground stopped indefinitely".
To make a long and painful story short, 2 1/2 hours later, we received taxi clearance...
That is a long time to sit with an impatient boss in the back.
We asked Clearance if there were delays over our departure fix.
The response was "call us back when your passengers are onboard and we will check".
We loaded the passengers and called Clearance only to be switched to Gate Hold.
Gate hold states " due to volume, your route is ground stopped indefinitely".
To make a long and painful story short, 2 1/2 hours later, we received taxi clearance...
That is a long time to sit with an impatient boss in the back.
Even more annoying is late passengers and slot times - I always figured if the passengers couldn't make it to the a/c when they said they would and would not call to tell me, waiting on the ground for a new clearance became their karma. Once this happened in Heathrow and we had a 2-hour wait!!
Our SOPs were to get the clearance before engine start (on the checklist) so we had time to re-program the FMS and check the departure route.
The checklist would be complete up until engine start, so as soon as the captain closed the door, the FO started the first engine. While the captain strapped in, the FO started the second engine. We then did the ask-response checklist for any parts of the checklist done by the FO alone. If we were not ready to go right away, we got a "valid to" time, or if we were delayed we would invariably get an amendment to our clearance which required some re-programming. Usually you could make it up in the air by asking for direct or something. Most airports treated us like an airline, with 'push-back' instructions etc. so you could usually fudge a delay!
Anyway, don't start engines until you have your clearance, and I would say don't even close the door (except for adverse w/x).
Our SOPs were to get the clearance before engine start (on the checklist) so we had time to re-program the FMS and check the departure route.
The checklist would be complete up until engine start, so as soon as the captain closed the door, the FO started the first engine. While the captain strapped in, the FO started the second engine. We then did the ask-response checklist for any parts of the checklist done by the FO alone. If we were not ready to go right away, we got a "valid to" time, or if we were delayed we would invariably get an amendment to our clearance which required some re-programming. Usually you could make it up in the air by asking for direct or something. Most airports treated us like an airline, with 'push-back' instructions etc. so you could usually fudge a delay!
Anyway, don't start engines until you have your clearance, and I would say don't even close the door (except for adverse w/x).
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
After running into this same problem I kept a few FSS stations' direct (long distance) phone numbers in my cell. Even if you call Lansing or Williamsport from Denver or Miami - they can help you. Those 1-800 numbers just aren't guarenteed to work. I recall New York being like that if you were in Manhattan too.
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goldeneagle
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1301
- Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 3:28 pm
You laugh, but, here in Canada, such things are now provided by a private company. In every other industry, when a company fails to deliver on a service, there are normally backcharges associated with such failure.rsandor wrote:Tell your company to send a bill to "Clearance Delivery" for your wasted time and fuel.
I'll believe the story of 'NavCanada is a private company' when we have a mechanism to backcharge for this kind of incident. Till then, it's just a big accounting exercise to hide a government department behind a pretense of something else.
Remember a couple years back, when that slimeball Martin "lowered income taxes"? At the same time, he cranked up CPP and UI contribution requirements (which go into general revenue) so that you took home LESS money after taxes ... all the while Paul Martin was crowing about his famous "tax cut".NavCan ... it's just a big accounting exercise to hide a government department behind a pretense of something else
I suppose if you looked hard enough, you could find someone who actually believed the above Liberal rhetoric.
And I suppose if you look hard enough, you could actually find someone who is dumb enough to believe the "NavCan-is-separate-so-lets-multiple-tax" rhetoric.
Where is my fuel excise tax going again, hm?
The other way to avoid most of this is to use Universal. Their service is excellent and screw ups are rare to non-existent. Tell your cheesed-off principals that the delays are much less likely to occur if they would buy their services (and way less work for you, too).
IMHO, if you are doing international flying and still doing all the flight planning yourself, your program is Mickey Mouse.
IMHO, if you are doing international flying and still doing all the flight planning yourself, your program is Mickey Mouse.
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
http://www.universalweather.com (I use them for overseas, especially Eastern Europe/Asia)cyyz wrote:universal?
Have a link?
Great service but for most flights, Skyplan in YYC uses the same FP generator and the same handlers with excellent service at 1/2 the cost.
http://www.skyplan.com
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corporate joe
- Rank 8
- Posts: 754
- Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 8:18 am
- Location: the coast
Most 800 numbers won't work in the US because of your Cell provider...
Bell Mobility buys airtime to the american providers... Since they can't pass the long distance fees to the end user (800 number), they ask for those numbers to be blocked. They just don't want to pay the long distances charges to the local cell provider.
It sucks... I usually call them once every other month to complain. I told I wouldn't mind if they charged me the long distance fees...
The worst they did... they asked me to call them back on a 800 number... That day I just lost it.
Good Luck !
Bell Mobility buys airtime to the american providers... Since they can't pass the long distance fees to the end user (800 number), they ask for those numbers to be blocked. They just don't want to pay the long distances charges to the local cell provider.
It sucks... I usually call them once every other month to complain. I told I wouldn't mind if they charged me the long distance fees...
The worst they did... they asked me to call them back on a 800 number... That day I just lost it.
Good Luck !
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snaproll20
- Rank 7
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 7:50 pm
You will get Comm Failure if you try to dial a 1-800 to NavCanada from a different Province.
I had centre-stored plans with Edmonton, Vancouver and Winnipeg Centres but I could not call them unless I was in their particular Province.
Only way was to pay the long distance number.
Tech-NO-logy!
I had centre-stored plans with Edmonton, Vancouver and Winnipeg Centres but I could not call them unless I was in their particular Province.
Only way was to pay the long distance number.
Tech-NO-logy!
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twinpratts
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1625
- Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:38 am
- Location: The Wild Wild West.
- Contact:
At my last job, I was so fed up with American ATC losing my flight plan out of the US... that i made a point to never file it back, and would always call it in from the FBO. 
I want to die like my grandfather did, peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming in terror like his passengers...
