ATPL questions from TC

Raf · Post by **Raf** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:21 pm

Hi,

I propose to open a new topic to put in it some questions you had when you passed the ATPL Exam at TC and you think these questions was "special". This could help some of us to prepare these exams.

Thank to help them.

Raf

ahramin · Post by **ahramin** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:47 pm

This could help some of us to prepare these exams.

Yeah, those of us that don't know the material and can't study

master switch · Post by **master switch** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:28 pm

is this a joke? this is illegal right?

why not take a digital cam in to the exam and post the pictures.

Flying Low · Post by **Flying Low** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:55 pm

What type of camera would you suggest?

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:29 pm

why not take a digital cam in to the exam and post the pictures

There is this large country to the south, called the "United States of America". In this "United States of America", all the questions (not the answers, just the questions) are available under the Freedom of Information Act.

If you've got a good memory, you're off to the races. I have heard of a guy that memorized all 1900 possible private pilot written (computer) test questions. Got perfect on the test. Had no clue about the material.

I have written FAA exams. I will admit to having memorized a few of the most time-consuming questions, to save time doing the test.

It's a big world out there, Virginia.

TOGA Descent · Post by **TOGA Descent** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:12 pm

Raf wrote:Hi,

I propose to open a new topic to put in it some questions you had when you passed the ATPL Exam at TC and you think these questions was "special". This could help some of us to prepare these exams.

Thank to help them.

Raf

I think that Transport Canada would take issue with this, because in the Exam's preamble it clearly states that you can not copy any of the questions. Because this is stated, it becomes a violation of the Air Regulations to do it.

Taking a Camera in to the exam room, or being caught with copies of the exam - in any form - will render your exam as void, and will probably result in suspention of your license.

Furthermore, as a consequence to posting the questions, the exams would be changed on a very regular basis, or worse, the exams would become a selection of questions from a massive database.

However, you could post your answer to any number of exam questions in the form of a statement.

Example:

Question: The long range capabilities of HF radio are attributable to the behaviour of?

Again, due to the regulations, it is illegal to post the question and the answers, but you can make a statement

Answer: Regarding the subject of HF radio range capabilities, I think that they are influenced by "Sky Waves".

This would not violate the Regulatory issue, and would put the information out to any interested candidate.

Any thoughts?

Tango01 · Post by **Tango01** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 6:44 am

400.02(1) Except as authorized by an invigilator, no person shall, or shall attempt to, in respect of a written examination,

(a) copy or remove from any place all or any portion of the text of the examination;

(b) give to or accept from any person a copy of all or any portion of the text of the examination;

(c) give help to or accept help from any person during the examination;

(d) complete all or any portion of the examination on behalf of any other person; or

(e) use any aid or written material during the examination.

Here is the punishment if you get caught:

2) A person who commits an act prohibited under subsection (1) fails the examination and may not take any other examination for a period of one year.

Raf · Post by **Raf** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 8:03 am

Hi,

So this topic is closed

Thank,

Raf

TOGA Descent · Post by **TOGA Descent** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 8:10 am

Tango01 wrote:400.02(1) Except as authorized by an invigilator, no person shall, or shall attempt to, in respect of a written examination,

(a) copy or remove from any place all or any portion of the text of the examination;

(b) give to or accept from any person a copy of all or any portion of the text of the examination;

(c) give help to or accept help from any person during the examination;

(d) complete all or any portion of the examination on behalf of any other person; or

(e) use any aid or written material during the examination.

Here is the punishment if you get caught:

2) A person who commits an act prohibited under subsection (1) fails the examination and may not take any other examination for a period of one year.

Okay, you just entered my area of expertise. So, since you brought up the Law (Regulation), lets have a little chat about them, shall we?

“…A person who commits an act prohibited under subsection (1) fails the examination and may not take any other examination for a period of one year…”

What gives TC the right to punish any person? The answer, simple. They MUST have broken a law.

So, what is the “Law” that pertains to the ATPL exam?

Answer: In simple terms, the ATPL Exam is a “Classified Document”, and as such it’s protected under the law.

“…Classified information is sensitive information to which access is restricted by law or regulation to particular classes of people. There are typically several levels of sensitivity, with differing clearance requirements. This sort of hierarchical system of secrecy is used by virtually every national government. The act of assigning the level of sensitivity to data is called data classification.

Most countries employ some sort of classification system for certain government information. For example, in Canada information which the U.S. would classify SBU (Sensitive but Unclassified) is called "protected" and further subcategorized into levels A, B, and C…”

Like I said, the ATPL Exam is a “Protected” document. You can not copy it, or disclose its contents, without violating the Law.

And, for the literary challenged, I DIDN’T SUGGEST TO ANYONE THAT THEY DO COPY IT.

You can read what I wrote in my previous post, but let me clarify the basis for that “Opinion”.

Again, Fact! You can not disclose the contents of a “Protected Document”. But, in this country, you can state your opinion regarding almost anything, provided that it is clearly your personal opinion.

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees rights and freedoms. It is the “Law” of our land, and is the basis for all other laws, including Aviation Regulations.

That document contains fundamental freedoms. Specifically:

Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
a) Freedom of conscience and religion;
b) Freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
c) Freedom of peaceful assembly; and
d) Freedom of association.

A person can not use the “Fundamental Freedoms” clause in the Charter of Rights to violate any law. So, if you’re thinking that it is your “Right” to disclose the contents of the Exam, you are sadly mistaken.

However, in all matters, we are entitled to our opinions.

Therefore, without making direct reference to any aviation exam, my opinion is:

"Regarding the subject of HF radio range capabilities, I think that they are influenced by "Sky Waves"."

It’s my opinion, I have not disclosed any data from any Exam or any other “Protected Document” I’ve only expressed my opinion.

So, with reference to the topic of this thread, to share the contents of the exam, without breaking the law, you must:

1) You have a group of interested persons, (freedom of association)

2) Who meet in a common place, like an Internet Forum (freedom of peaceful assembly)

3) And, the share their personal OPINIONS regarding various aviation subjects. (Freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression)

Are you starting to understand?

Edited: This is how ProIFR and the others, can get away with it.

shankdown · Post by **shankdown** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 8:14 am

C'mon, boys! It ain't no thang! D'you really think the good folks at Pro IFR and Aerocourse have been breaking TC regs in this matter since the inception of their courses? No! Go and take their prep courses and you'll receive a book full of pretty much every question that TC has on the exam. And they encourage you to come back and tell them about any questions that you get that weren't in their prep guide, so they can add it on their next revision. Their prep guides were built on people coming in and telling what the exam questions were!!! But you're not allowed to walk out of the exam after you hand in your answers with any of the following in hand:

1. Having written the Q's down on a peice of paper
2. The exam itself
3. Photographs of the exam

Luckily, we live in a country where the government isn't allowed to draft laws against controlling our minds or its capabilities. If your brain can hold onto some information you get in that exam room, by all means... go tell it on the mountain!

Legal Shankdown

TOGA Descent · Post by **TOGA Descent** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 8:19 am

shankdown wrote:...If your brain can hold onto some information...

Legal Shankdown

And, in that brain you would have "Memory Aids". Even though, as Tango01 has reminded us,

"... e) use any aid ... during the examination..." and

You have commited an act prohibited under subsection, and failed the examination and may not take any other examination for a period of one year..."

Just an observation...

trey kule · Post by **trey kule** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:35 am

Many moons ago there was a guy who bought people a cup of coffee after they wrote their exams for giving him a question or two. Put them all into a book, sold the book, and gave ATPL courses. The sense I get is that what was happening here might have been a similar attempt.

Perhaps it would be better if we all stopped trying to short circuit the system and learn the material.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:53 am

The first question is your name....

Oh wow, I'm going to hell now... Toooooools..

If you want the answers to "possible" questions go and spend the 500 at the aerocourse ....

Swotter · Post by **Swotter** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:19 pm

We should consider ourselves lucky that we only have 2 exams!!
(ok, 3 with the INRAT)

The JAA has 14!!

as the previous member already said: Just pay the 500 and do the Aerocourse.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:56 am

Swotter wrote:We should consider ourselves lucky that we only have 2 exams!!

The JAA has 14!!

I'd find a 14 exam scheme easier, imo, sure you have 1 year to do them all and I think you're fubar if you fail 1 3 times...

But it's like our PPL and CPL scam, you can partial it and then pass it on the second try, I know our instructors told students to do immaculate in 2 subjects and try their best one the other 2. That way worst case scenario you get the partial...

Back to the theory, 14 exxams, but it's 1 law, 1 radio, 1 navigation, 1 met, 1 airmanship, 1 whatever... so you can study every week for 1 exam and pass it and study onto the next one atleast in theory(they only sat once a month for the tests)

Oh, and yes, it is MUCH cheaper for us, they're paying what 100 Euros PER EXAM?

sakism · Post by **sakism** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:33 am

Tango01 wrote:400.02(1) Except as authorized by an invigilator, no person shall, or shall attempt to, in respect of a written examination,

(a) copy or remove from any place all or any portion of the text of the examination;

(b) give to or accept from any person a copy of all or any portion of the text of the examination;

(c) give help to or accept help from any person during the examination;

(d) complete all or any portion of the examination on behalf of any other person; or

(e) use any aid or written material during the examination.

Here is the punishment if you get caught:

2) A person who commits an act prohibited under subsection (1) fails the examination and may not take any other examination for a period of one year.

The regs say that you cannot give them a copy of the text of the exam. It does not say that you cannot discuss the exam with others.

The exam is a protected document, but the content of the exam is not protected. The questions on the exam deal with public domain topics - otherwise, for example, the formula for VOR reception distance wuld be a top-secret piece of information.

Talk about it to your heart's content.

Spokes · Post by **Spokes** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:44 pm

If TC thinks that some piece of data or information is that important that it needs to be put on an exam, I think pilots talking about it is a good thing. The more you know the better/safer pilot you are (theortically anyhow).

Just because its on an exam we should'nt talk about it? I think not. Talking about a point of aviation spreads the knowledge, makes pilots know more. I have seen it happen many times on this site, and I like it.

my $.02.

CARO · Post by **CARO** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:03 pm

Raf wrote:I propose to open a new topic....................... to put in it some questions ...................you think these questions was "special".............................. This could help some of us to prepare these exams..........................Thank to help them.

I suggest taking a course in english first, or hopefully you know some french. the first step to answering a question correctly is having a reasonable understanding of the language the question is in.

TC Guy · Post by **TC Guy** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:17 pm

sakism wrote:The exam is a protected document, but the content of the exam is not protected. The questions on the exam deal with public domain topics - otherwise, for example, the formula for VOR reception distance wuld be a top-secret piece of information.

Talk about it to your heart's content.

What he said.

Fill 'yer boots. The more you talk about it, the more you learn, and the better off we all are.

-Guy

SpiltMilk · Post by **SpiltMilk** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:00 pm

I suggest taking a course in english first, or hopefully you know some french. the first step to answering a question correctly is having a reasonable understanding of the language the question is in.

[/quote]

As for CARO your course will be sentence structure....in particular proper capitalization. For you I would suggest English vice english and French vice french in sentence number one. The vice the to begin sentence number two.[/i]

ahramin · Post by **ahramin** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:54 pm

Thanks SpiltMilk. Saved me the trouble of saying it myself.

CARO · Post by **CARO** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:20 pm

ahramin wrote:Thanks SpiltMilk. Saved me the trouble of saying it myself.

YOU OPENED YOUR MOUTH TO SAY SOMETHING ANYWAY....I DON'T SEE HOW YOU SAVED YOURSELF ANY TROUBLE.

YOU'LL ALSO BE HAPPY TO KNOW I LICKED MY CAPITALIZATION PROBLEM!!

beechy · Post by **beechy** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:17 pm

Just learn the f**ckin' material and pass the exam, how you learn it is up to but if you do this independently you are more likely to get things right as most people you talk to have different opinions on interpretation and will fowl you up. God forbid only competent people become pilots......insurance goes down, low timers get jobs and people are happy.....by the time you do your ATP's you should know regulations, met nav and general knowledge stuff cold or else you should consider an alternative career......my 2 cents......

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:44 pm

I haven't really noticed much of a correlation between ability to write trickily-worded multiple choice tests, and successful operation of heavy machinery such as aircraft, bulldozers or cranes.

Do you have to be a whiz at written tests to be a good plumber, too? What about an electrician? Hair dresser? The counter at Starbucks?

Really, I'm interested in which occupations show a strong correlation between prowess at written exams, and success in the given field, and what statistical data you used to form that conclusion.

TC Guy · Post by **TC Guy** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:26 am

Hedley wrote:I haven't really noticed much of a correlation between ability to write trickily-worded multiple choice tests, and successful operation of heavy machinery such as aircraft, bulldozers or cranes.

Do you have to be a whiz at written tests to be a good plumber, too? What about an electrician? Hair dresser? The counter at Starbucks?

Really, I'm interested in which occupations show a strong correlation between prowess at written exams, and success in the given field, and what statistical data you used to form that conclusion.

Sorry, Hedely...

I have to comment again.

What would you suggest is the alternative? Long answer? God, I hope not... got that enough in University, and god forbid you EVER have to correct long answer questions; it is a nightmare. Spent many a night (as a University instructor) doing just that.

There has to be some sort of standard. The USA publishing every question? I (personally) have issues with that... but that is another conversation.

If not the current system, then what? We agree that testing knowledge is a good thing, right?

-Guy

ATPL questions from TC

ATPL questions from TC

Re: ATPL questions from TC

Re: ATPL questions from TC

Re: ATPL questions from TC