How many 705's are in the Jazz Fleet?

Long Keel · Post by **Long Keel** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:23 am

How many 705's are in Jazz'z fleet? Can all the 50 seat RJ's be converted to 705's under the current collective agreement?

socrates · Post by **socrates** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:52 am

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:09 am

15, and sadly no.

Long Keel · Post by **Long Keel** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:54 pm

Thank you, I thought it was 15 as well, but with all the western Canada route announcements i wondered if it was maybe higher.

Kag, have you interviewed at AC? We each have our own scope clauses. I'm sure you wouldn't be please if Georgian started operating Dash 8's, then promised the RJ's for less than Jazz. We both have jets. Can't we let sleeping dogs lie? I can live with the status quo with the existing formula.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:26 pm

I think scope clauses should allow options though. I wouldn't mind if GCN got -8, as long as we got more 705's. Same with mainline, wouldn't you trade in you EMB job for a 777 job?

Sorry to beat the dead horse.

exbengal · Post by **exbengal** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:14 pm

Long Keel, your as stupid as the day is long...............you have spent (lost) millions in wages for your scope language in your own contract and you come on a public forum to ask that question.

"Can't we let sleeping dogs lie" ............................ya sure as long as Milty can, he's going to play you like the sap you are. Good luck getting an increase in this round.

Whipsawing is only going to get worse in this round, all Jazz has to do is present a solid business plan in front of Teplitsky and guess what..............

Maybe you can dust off your old acpa Jets R'us plan, take a wage cut in this round, and Milty will let you keep the EMJ's for CRJ wages...........IDIOT

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:57 pm

Exbengal

I have much respect for the things you post but I am not sure I understand the last one?

The way I read it is that you guys are going to roll up your sleeves and protitute yourselves by going along with a Jazz business plan at reduced wages?

I must be wrong because you are much more intelligent than that.

J.S.

exbengal · Post by **exbengal** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:41 pm

Hi Jaques, no not at all, we have a contract till 09, all I'm saying is Jazz mgt can come up with a business plan in front of Teplitsky that we can fly 75 seats cheaper, which we already do, and the race is on............... with Milty pulling the puppet strings on ALPA, ACPA and Jazz mgt, and you and I both know where that leads, eventually right into Miltys 47 mill stock option plan.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:33 pm

Long Keel wrote:Thank you, I thought it was 15 as well, but with all the western Canada route announcements i wondered if it was maybe higher.

Kag, have you interviewed at AC? We each have our own scope clauses. I'm sure you wouldn't be please if Georgian started operating Dash 8's, then promised the RJ's for less than Jazz. We both have jets. Can't we let sleeping dogs lie? I can live with the status quo with the existing formula.

No I haven't interviewed at AC and won't for some time. But when are you getting your interview? Sooner then myself I can assure you of that. So yes, lets let sleeping dogs lie.

Long Keel · Post by **Long Keel** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:28 pm

exb,

My goodness we are beyond testy! I trust my IQ and choices so far and have done well despite your own assessment. I am about as moderate as they come within ACPA's ranks but with your high strung, judemental, ready to whore your association out like a Surrey girl on on a Saturday night ideals... Well perhaps I have given you and your peers far too much credit. The initial question was an honest one since I don't spend time reading the scope clause and haven't lost too much sleep over the fleet plan of my employer. Obviously you do. Perhaps you should take up golf. You are way to tightly strung and judemental to take a three sentence statement and question ones intelligence and abilities. Lighten up, you'll live longer.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:30 pm

Long Keel wrote:exb,

My goodness we are beyond testy! I trust my IQ and choices so far and have done well despite your own assessment. I am about as moderate as they come within ACPA's ranks but with your high strung, judemental, ready to whore your association out like a Surrey girl on on a Saturday night ideals... Well perhaps I have given you and your peers far too much credit. The initial question was an honest one since I don't spend time reading the scope clause and haven't lost too much sleep over the fleet plan of my employer. Obviously you do. Perhaps you should take up golf. You are way to tightly strung and judemental to take a three sentence statement and question ones intelligence and abilities. Lighten up, you'll live longer.

I don't even know how to respond. This really chaps my ass…

Ya know without saying too much… I didn’t mean any backhanded reference to scope clauses or such…I’m too friggin new to really know what the hell you’re talking about, let alone bitch about something that has yet to negatively effect me.
I just want more 705’s in the fleet because I’m new and wont get to fly one until hell freezes over unless more arrive... is that so hard to understand? No evil plan’s to take your flying from you. Not trying to rule the Canadian skies…just a simple selfish need to fly something bigger, faster, and newer.

I may be new, but please don’t preach to me/us about whoreing us out…I believe in this case, it took two to tango.

flystraightin · Post by **flystraightin** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:37 am

Long Keel wrote:...but with all the western Canada route announcements i wondered if it was maybe higher.

Speaking of the new routes...has anyone seen the western Canada and US ones?

exbengal · Post by **exbengal** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:29 am

long keel, the scope clause is in your contract.............if your too lazy to read you own contract I can't help you...........I'm sure your acpa reps worked hard for it though and appreciate you asking those questions.

Your calling us whores but you just don't get it, with your stupid quotes like"I'm happy with the statue quo if you are".............think Milton is? He's the one along with Brewer and the rest thats going to have you for lunch in your wage reoppener and again in 09.

Not once in my post did I say we would do it for less, but rest assured it will be offered to us and with two seperate pilot groups guess what.......

The only time I see red is with your dumb-ass stupidity

Try and figure it out l/k, its not rocket science

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:04 am

Not once in my post did I say we would do it for less, but rest assured it will be offered to us and with two seperate pilot groups guess what.......

.....you'll do it for less!
You're in good hands with ALPA.

JZA · Post by **JZA** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:29 am

I'm with KAG on this one......more 705's the better....I haven't touched one in 3 months now.

Did you see....Jazz in operating the YWG-LAS run starting September 7th on a 705.

uncleron · Post by **uncleron** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:54 am

Exbengal,
If you are so smart in figuring out that Milton wants to play the 2 pilot groups against each other, why get it started with Long Keel when he asks a simple question?Seems to me you're playing right into managements hands.
Anyways, you give Jazz pilots a bad name with your rants.
Cheers.

sideslip · Post by **sideslip** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:31 pm

If you fly the RJ at Jazz do you get a choice between the 200 and the 705, or do you fly both? I personally think the 705 is an ugly airplane compared to the 200.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:40 pm

You get to fly all 3. But more junior you are, the less likely you are to fly the 705 with any consistancy.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Personally I find the 705 to be an attractive machine.

JazzJetDriver · Post by **JazzJetDriver** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:42 pm

We fly both types and the 705 is a way better acft. It climbs like stink, it cruises faster than the 200 without any effort, the systems are much more automated making life in general a lot easier...and by the way maybe you need to get a pair of glasses.

uncleron · Post by **uncleron** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:43 pm

beat me to it.

A150730 · Post by **A150730** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:22 pm

For all you folks out there that believe that the jazz pilot group took a wage reduction over and above the CCAA 10% you couldn't be more incorrect. Our wage structure did not and has not changed, we did not offer to fly any aircraft for less than any one else. Our wage structure has been in place since our first collective agreement dating back to 2001, long before CCAA. It is based on years of service and status, it is not based on aircraft type. A dash pilot makes the same as a RJ pilot. There is no difference for daylight, nighttime, different time zones, or fazes of the moon or the stars!!!
Jazz is not the reason for the race to the bottom of the wage scale.

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:26 am

A150730 wrote:For all you folks out there that believe that the jazz pilot group took a wage reduction over and above the CCAA 10% you couldn't be more incorrect. Our wage structure did not and has not changed, we did not offer to fly any aircraft for less than any one else. Our wage structure has been in place since our first collective agreement dating back to 2001, long before CCAA. It is based on years of service and status, it is not based on aircraft type. A dash pilot makes the same as a RJ pilot. There is no difference for daylight, nighttime, different time zones, or fazes of the moon or the stars!!!
Jazz is not the reason for the race to the bottom of the wage scale.

My My My.........I guess ALPA didn't show you the Airbus at Dash 8 rate proposal then did they?

prop2jet · Post by **prop2jet** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:29 pm

Guess who flies what and for how much is something that is never going to die until everyone gets on the same page. Nothing could be closer than the truth when saying ACE is playing each group against one another...

To say that there is nothing wrong with allowing CMA or Georgian to operate Dash 8's so that Jazz can operate more RJ's is IMO to say that it is OK for further errosion of the Jazz pay scales. Not a good tactic.

IMO the greater threat lies in what happens with Open Skies, a lot is said about how it will be of benefit to CDN carriers, everyone seems to think that no american carrier is going to be interested in any routes other than the longer haul routes but I would be leary. Jazz enjoys the benefits of a Capacity Purchase Agreement with AC for the time being but how do you think things will be if and when American Regionals are allowed to come in and bid on the same work. Seems to me that will have a negative impact on seeing substantial corrections to the current pay/pension package when the time comes.

As for Mainline, they are going to have to be consistently profitable if they are to be around for any time, that means earning profits through operation of the airline, not by clever investing or selling of "assets".

bobcaygeon · Post by **bobcaygeon** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:57 pm

Hey Jacque, your ex-nova. Who was supposed to fly the CRJ's in the firstplace. It wasn't AC was it? Little back yard deal between AC calpa reps and "Haul ass" Harris I seem to recall. The Original AC CRJ wages were less than D8-300 AO wages. HMMMM

ME (ALPA) ,You(ACPA) we're the whores and uncle Milty is our pimp, Plain and simple.

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:24 am

bobcaygeon wrote:Hey Jacque, your ex-nova. Who was supposed to fly the CRJ's in the firstplace. It wasn't AC was it? Little back yard deal between AC calpa reps and "Haul ass" Harris I seem to recall. The Original AC CRJ wages were less than D8-300 AO wages. HMMMM

ME (ALPA) ,You(ACPA) we're the whores and uncle Milty is our pimp, Plain and simple.

Hey Bob......that little back room deal as you call it was called a scope clause. ( the little agreement you have which stops Georgian from dropping a fleet of DO328s at your gates ) Most airlines have them. Yes the RJ was slated for Nova but contravened the terms of the mainline collective agreement. I was at QK at the time and even I could figure that one out.

Not sure about your wages facts, as I remember, the RJ paid the same as the BAe146 which was a bigger airplane. I have no idea what the AO 300 pay rates were at the time although someone told me they too were the same as the BAE146.

I would have to agree with you 100% on your last statement.