Morons in The Sky

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:36 pm

Tonight, at about 19:45, a single-engine 'warbird' thing, a 2-seater with a greenhouse canopy (I thought it was a Yak, but what do I know?) flew over my neighbourhood on the North Shore of Vancouver at about 3-500 feet (I'm guessing, it sure as hell wasn't 2000') and proceeded to do VERY steep turns (90+ degrees, it seemed from the ground); very loud, of course. I thought it was a T-28 at first, the sound was definitely a radial but more 'foreign.' It proceeded to do more of these turns all the time waggling its wings and swooping about, in a most unprofessional and seemingly uncoordinated way, obviously waving at someone on the ground. It looked like a beautiful aircraft, seemingly spotless with blue under the wings, an elaborate paintjob on top (easy to see the top of the a/c!) and '66' painted on the side. At one point it was pointed at the ground, and I figured I was going to see another moron thunder in. He didn't, and vanished in the direction of Pitt Meadows.

It took me half an hour to decide not to phone enforcement. I'm not sure why I didn't, and I still might, but I suppose I didn't wish to get involved. He kind of crashed my party and I was glad to see the end of him. Sounds kind of pompous, but there you are.

If the pilot of that a/c is on this site, your exhibition was one of the best examples I've seen of how to do everything wrong. Such stupidity: how to give pilots and small aircraft a bad name; how to flirt with death with a stall-spin; endangering people on the ground (it's a busy neighbourhood) and sadly, maybe potentially ruining a beautiful a/c.

I sincerely hope you live long enough to enjoy your gorgeous aircraft. Presumably, if Transport finds you, maybe they'll let you have your license back one day and you'll be able to fly it again.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:47 pm

decide not to phone enforcement

I have never ratted out another pilot out to enforcement, and I never will.

If you have a real problem with another pilot's flying, track him down. Talk to him. It may be necessary, in extreme circumstances, to strike him with considerable force, to cause him to reconsider his behaviour

Have the courage of your convictions. Solve your own problems. Don't run to mommy like a 5 year old, whining that your brother ate a cookie more than you.

I know, I know, very un-Canadian to actually do something. Far preferable to whine to the government that it should "fix things"

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:55 pm

Hedley wrote:
decide not to phone enforcement
I have never ratted out another pilot out to enforcement, and I never will.

If you have a real problem with another pilot's flying, track him down. Talk to him. It may be necessary, in extreme circumstances, to strike him with considerable force, to cause him to reconsider his behaviour

Have the courage of your convictions. Solve your own problems. Don't run to mommy like a 5 year old, whining that your brother ate a cookie more than you.

I know, I know, very un-Canadian to actually do something. Far preferable to whine to the government that it should "fix things"

Hedley I'd tend to agree with you except for the fact that "striking him with considerable force" will probably result in him charging the guy with assault. Now, if you can figure some way to get the guy to swing first you're laughing.

DHQ · Post by **DHQ** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:35 am

I have never ratted out another pilot out to enforcement, and I never will.

If you have a real problem with another pilot's flying, track him down.

Yep, I agree. Don't be a rat.

bmc · Post by **bmc** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:35 am

I agree. Don't rat him out. Let idiots like him give the rest of us a bad name in the publics eye. I'd rather have the public believe we're irresponsible idiots. Makes it much easier to promote general aviation.

helijason · Post by **helijason** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:02 am

Hopefully if said pilot is involved in the av-canada community he can read this NTSB report and understand what can happen when a pilot pulls low altitude maneouvers to try an impress friends on the ground. (not saying that this was the case in either storey, but thats what its sounding like.)

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_i ... 0659&key=1

iwannasoar · Post by **iwannasoar** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:33 am

five minutes on airliners.net, two minutes on TC's Registration website, aircraft found! Have at er!

Luscombe · Post by **Luscombe** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:36 am

This transgression is best handled internally within the brother/sisterhood of pilots. The message can carry much more weight coming from a fellow pilot who actually flies rather than from some bureaucrat from Transport.

Your intention should be to let the offender know he was being a jerk and that you saw him being a jerk. I suppose if he gets belligerant or repeats the offense, report his sorry a$$ to TC. That will in all likelyhood not be necessary.

Strega · Post by **Strega** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:39 am

sounds chinese to me

fixed pitch · Post by **fixed pitch** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:10 am

A few years ago some idiot was over my now old neighbourhood doing the same sort of thing. IT was a long weekend, I was out by the pool, ah life was good, then this guy came over with his 172 at about 1000ft, slow and began performing several steep turns, a spin, no word of a lie, and several other rediculous things. I was pretty ticked off watching him directly over my house playing like an idiot. I got on the TC website, found his number, turned out he lived just down the road. I called and told him I wasn't too happy, he ended up coming over to my place and appologizing saying he just wanted to make the grandkids happy but realized it was a bit foolish. Don't rat, just call the guy.

MRO · Post by **MRO** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:24 am

I don’t know why all you guys are so against reporting other pilots to enforcement. There are some dumb ass pilots out there and if any of them jeopardize my safety I’m gonna be pissed off about it and Ill tell someone about it.

The brotherhood of pilots holds no weight at all, some people will never learn or change from discussion from their peers. Some people need TC to hit them where it hurts.

Dealing with bone head pilots is not my job, that’s what TC is there for

MRO · Post by **MRO** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:29 am

That being said there is a difference between an honest mistake and abuse or neglect. Ill never rat anyone out for an honest mistake, but if you are abusing your plane, neglecting the cars and willfully jeopardizing safety that’s another story.

talkinghead · Post by **talkinghead** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:43 am

All I can say is think really ...really hard about going to TC. If you go down that road expect to spend alot of time on the phone and maybe in interviews with them (tc) and they do not stop until they get exactly what they want. Its a can of worms.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:16 am

The brotherhood of pilots holds no weight at all

I'm really sorry you feel that way.

Dealing with bone head pilots is not my job

Sigh. Let see you see someone on a motorcycle, broken down by the side of the road. Do you stop? I would. I know, it's not "your job", let the government solve that problem, too.

I'm really fascinated to see where you draw the line about "your job".

Let's say you see a kid drowning in a river. Would you just ignore it and let the kid drown, because it's "not your job", and the government should take care of it?

N2 · Post by N2 » Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:11 am

Oh just shoot him down and be done with it!

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:24 am

Hedley, what exactly is your position on this? And how do you equate a good samaritan act with reporting a nitwit?

Don't you think that if you witness a pilot acting like an idiot, endangering people on the ground and perhaps setting himself up for suicide, that "ratting him out" might just save a few lives, including his own?

I've said it before on this site, but I have known NINE people who have died in this business, and none of them was acting in an overt way to get themselves killed. Let's just say that this guy is very close to joining them, and probably someone on the ground, too.

Besides, if you intentionally want to break these CARS, how stupid is it to do it over Vancouver? Maybe a sleepy little town like, oh, Nelson, (sorry Airtids) but Vancouver?

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:29 am

I have known NINE people who have died in this business

Is that all?

Kilo-Kilo · Post by **Kilo-Kilo** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:33 am

Sounds like one of the Nanchangs that frequent around here. There's one at Fort Langley, and a couple or more at ZBB.

bmc · Post by **bmc** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:12 am

Drag racing seems to be a problem in Vancouver these days. If you see it on your street, do you call the cops or go have a chat with the guy behind the wheel?

Skipper · Post by **Skipper** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:15 am

This is a pretty effective low flying deterrent...

ZBB118.10 · Post by **ZBB118.10** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:05 am

It has just taken me the sum total of about 4 mins to find out exactly who this aircraft belongs to.

Xsbank - if you haven't already done this, do a quick check on airliners.net and then a registration check at the TC website and there you have it. If someone was clearly endangering others through his lack of airmanship and disregard for others, then I totally agree he needs to be talked to. I am not too sure what TC would do about this - would you need photographic evidence?

Good luck.

trey kule · Post by **trey kule** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:02 pm

Write the person a letter. Give the date time etc., and tell him to stop it.
It will have more weight than a phone call, avoid arguing, and it he does it again you have a letter to him on file.

If he stops good. No need to have TC, our tax dollars involved,

My thoughts

l_reason · Post by **l_reason** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:03 pm

I have been called in a few times never by a pilot that I know of but a member of the public. It always takes place over the countryside when I’m taking aerial pictures from 600-900agl. Most people just call the local airport and then the airport manager will talk to me when I land or even an O.P.P. officer that wants me to call and explain what I‘m doing. Pilots may have a bit better judgement then the general public but for the most part people have no idea when guessing an aircrafts altitude.

If you’re the guy that did that over a city you should just think about how trigger happy TC is if you do get called in. Dealing with TC enforcement is a pain in the ass and its not going to be an easy day at the tribunal TRUST ME! been there done that 602.01.

Dex · Post by **Dex** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:37 pm

You witnessed a violation which could easily have caused multiple deaths and you did not report it to the authorities; you post your experience on here. If the pilot went out today did the same thing and killed several people on the ground, I wonder if the families' lawyers and/or prosecutors could find you in part liable/responsible because you did not go to the proper authorities?

Kilo-Kilo · Post by **Kilo-Kilo** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:57 pm

Was he within Harbour's control zone? I do think that a stern letter to the owner of the aircraft with no suposition as to who was PIC at the time would at least make him more courteous, having the knowledge that he has lost his anonimity. TC must get thousands of low flying complaints a year that the offenders would never even be notified of. Of course there may be a difference in handling when a pilot is making the complaint as opposed to a cranky old coffin-dodger.