FLYING MAGAZINE!!!

TITAN · Post by **TITAN** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:50 pm

I was at work today and before leaving the house I grabbed an old Flying Mag from 2001 ... so lunch comes around and I start to look through the pages and start to read an article ( Title ; wind does affect airspeed )! Now ! it was a very good article like most of them are , but there is a section there that Blew me away!! the Author stated that he had read an article , and two Aviation Experts were disagreeing with each other , about wind affects on an AC...

TOPIC ( WINDSHEAR)

1st Expert = " IF an ac is flying with an 1200 FPM rate of climb and has a 30 KT headwind , but suddenly looses the 30 KTS he would loose his IAS and drop his rate of climb ( 1200 FPM) till regaining his original airspeed again!!

2nd Expert = " wind does not affect airspeed if you maintain a constant ATT , RPM and so on !!! blahh blahh blahh !!!

that second Expert better hand his liscense in and re-take Basic Theory of flight .

This is straight out of the book , I'm not Joking ! I can't beleive that someone , that calls himself an Aviation Expert could say such a thing !!!
if I were to compare this scenario again using doctors istead of pilots , it would be like , Expert 2 saying that " if Surgically remove someones heart and wake him up he wont even know it !!! he will infact carry on his life like before !!!

If anybody is intrested , about the actuall copy tell me I will try to scan it for you and paste it on here!!!

Blakey · Post by **Blakey** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:01 am

Well, technically, they're both correct. It depends on the time frame you reference. Wind shear has no lasting effect on IAS but it sure does have an instantaneous effect! I would hope that the second gentleman's comments were taken out of context if he is being quoted as an "aviation expert".

TITAN · Post by **TITAN** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:41 am

There is nothing mentioned about ( time frame). even if the airspeed change were to occur for 0.5 sec , well it occured didn't it.
what you are talking about is the overall outcome of the result from loss of lift . ... sure it will go back , tell that to the poor bastard who after loosing his headwind smashes into the ground !!, or another example (Delta L-1011) everyone died on that one due to loss of headwind ( decreased perf windshear ) ...

Snowgoose · Post by **Snowgoose** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:46 am

Well I have that story beat. A few years ago there was an article in the National Post. On the front of the Discovery section was "Why do wings work" by Robert Uhlig. The section went on to describe how Bernoulli was wrong. The expert was shocked that Bernoulli was even mentioned on the NASA website. It was by far one of the funniest things I have read. The fellow he was talking to was David Anderson, a US government researcher. He says wings follow the Coanda effect. He said the shape of the wing is unimportant. It's the tilt of the wing that causes lift by deflecting air downward. Then newton's law takes over.

His proof was that if the shape of the wing determined lift, you could never fly upside down. He went on to say that fighter jet wings are almost flat and that also proves his point.

He's right to a certain extent. He forgot to think about drag. A 2x4 will generate lift when it has an angle of attack. But the drag he would have to overcome and the actual amount of lift he would get would hardly make sense to attach to an airplane.

Now back to your little article. As was mentioned before the expert might have been taken out of context. I sure hope this clown was.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:54 am

FLYING would make great ass-wipe if the paper werent shiny!

TITAN · Post by **TITAN** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:06 am

That's Funny man you always get those experts following an accident to ..
B-1900 I think maybe 4 years ago and I can't remenber what company . but it was an engine failure immediatly following rotation !...
Well I can't recall who I was watching , on the news ( not CNN) . but they brought theyre aviation expert in 20 min or so after the accident , and this so called expert , stayted that the AC ( b-1900) went straight nose up after T-O then flipped over and came back down!!!
It wasn't long till a Capt on the 1900 wen't on the air and stated that the whole thing mentioned was wrong there is no way a 1900 close to max gross will come off the runway loose the engine , climb 90 degrees straight up to the blue sky , without stalling at about 40 degrees of pitch !!!
Man I laugh at those clowns the Experts !!!

superiorwhore · Post by **superiorwhore** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:25 am

I believe the second guy all the way.
the wind doesn't have an effect on a aircraft, it is pretty much all pilot doing.

3=47 · Post by **3=47** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:11 am

remember when early in your flight training people used to tell you "Be careful when you make a climbing turn after take off because when you turn out of the wind the aircraft may stall!"

those people were funny...

anyhoo

Skipper · Post by **Skipper** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:38 am

The "turning out of the wind" thing is partly true

You probably won't stall, but your rate of climb will take a pretty good crap if you turn out of a strong headwind. I've seen that a billion times.

TITAN · Post by **TITAN** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:48 am

for that to be true , you would have to turn from wind direction to a crosswind in less than asec , but it is true that the plane feels the differece if it is a fast enough change of direction!! VS would slightly reduce but nothing extremly noticable . as for stalling , well maybe the instructors were confused and ment to say "load factor" the extra weight if the bank exceeds 30 degrees and your flying a 150 climbing at 50 KTS you will prob stall !! not the wind !!

ca787546 · Post by **ca787546** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:35 pm

Ok, correct me if I am wrong... but it all depends on your indicated airspeed with the turn after take-off... if your airspeed remains the same, and so does the attitude, in a constant bank turn, then the direction change of the aircraft won't matter because your rate of climb will be maintained... Your climb gradient would be affected, that is obvious, but unless the actual wind changes, the from into-the-wind to downwind turn shouldn't affect you much aerodynamically speaking. Now... about the windshear part... if it wasn't for inertia, windshear wouldn't be that much of a problem, but Airbus and Boeing haven't figured out how to turn inertia off yet, so instead they have predictive windshear systems.
Cheers,
DNB

ca787546 · Post by **ca787546** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:35 pm

deleted

Rudder Bug · Post by **Rudder Bug** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:29 pm

I would never turn downwind right after takeoff in gusty winds. That'd be the best plan to buy the farm. The sense of flying must be greater than the books.

ca787546 · Post by **ca787546** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:59 am

I'd turn downwind in gusty winds at night or day in IMC if the SID says I should... I've done that many times... you just have to... specially when the MSA is above 15000 feet and the airport elevation above 8000 feet... but that's because we fly into weird places

I also do agree that flying has to go beyond books, that's for sure! The books are a really good base for flying though, if you lack the experience then try to make up for it with knowledge. Real flying throws too many variables that won't be written in books anyway. That is why flying in the sim, even a level-D, never feels like the real thing.
Cheers,
DNB