Contact Approach

drifter · Post by **drifter** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:50 pm

So, ATC says " You are cleared out of controlled airspace via the Edson such and such approach"

Do I have to request the option for the contact or can I just do it since it is in uncontrolled airspace?

Thanks.

sprucegoose · Post by **sprucegoose** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:00 pm

Contact approachs must be pilot requested. Because ATC will protect the airspace if you go on a missed approach.

AOA · Post by **AOA** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:18 pm

You shouldn't have to request the contact at all.. You have been cleared out of controlled and the missed is already protected regardless...

Remember even if you request the contact you continue with the published approach procedure until such time you gain visual of the environment around the airport..

My favorite thing to see is when people request the contact even though the ceiling is BELOW the safe 25nm... There is no operational advantage it's only till you get to the procedure turn or turning inbound where you get lower and THEN get visual.. That's where you can break off from the published approach.

planett · Post by **planett** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:35 pm

TC AIM RAC 9.6.1

After text,

Note: This type of approach will only be authorized by ATC when:

(a) the pilot requests it; and

etc. etc.

Not to say that I have not been offered or cleared the contact without my asking but it's very rare.

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:52 pm

I think that if the approach clearance is to the YET airport via the approach your choice, or cleared YET "for an approach", then no you don't have to request the contact. But if the clearance accepted is to the YET airport via a specific approach, then the contact has to be pilot requested.

Reminds me of a captain I flew with in YFB who always wanted the clearance for the contact from centre before starting down. You could tell the controller could care less what approach we did, but technically the guy was right.

planett · Post by **planett** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:10 pm

I guess one TC AIM reference isn't good enough so I'll provide another. We're splitting hairs here but I was with a captain in YTH who was violated and berated on air for assuming that "cleared to the YTH airport for an approach" included a clearance for a contact approach, which it did not.

TC AIM April 2006

Page 246 "Approach Clearance" is the heading, follow the text to Page 247
You will find an example: CLEARED TO THE LETHBRIDGE AIRPORT FOR AN APPROACH

continue one more paragraph

"This clearance does not constitute authority for the pilot to execute a contact or visual approach. Should the pilot prefer to conduct a visual approach ( published or non-published) or a contact approach, the pilot must specifically communicate that request to the controller."

ahramin · Post by **ahramin** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:24 pm

You guys are missing the point. You are not cleared for any sort of approach. You are cleared out of controlled airspace via the edson such and such. Once out of controlled airspace, you can do whatever you want. However if you wish to re-enter controlled airspace, say in the case of a missed approach, and cannot get a hold of center, say in a comm failure, the only way to do so will be by following the published missed and comm failure procedures.

Edson is not under an air route, control area extention, or any other low level controlled airspace. So once you are below 18 000 you are free to manoeuver as you wish. Otherwise if the airport in question is under some kind of controlled airspace then you would have to follow the published procedure until 2200 feet AGL, at which point you could do the contact. In these cases the missed is probably in controlled airspace so i would ask for the contact if i was going to do it.

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:38 pm

Don't you guys have anything better to do?

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:53 pm

sky's the limit wrote:Don't you guys have anything better to do?

Uh not really

Okay my bad. This stuff gets pretty rusty. Kudos to ahramin for looking it up. Me I had to reach all the way to the other side of my desk and open my AIM. Now that I have I think I'll read a little...

Okay my vote is for "cleared out of controlled airspace in the VC of YET" means you can do a contact provided AIM 9.6.1 is complied with. If the clearance: "cleared to the YET airport apch your choice" OR "...via the RNAV ryw..." is received, you need to ask for a contact if you intend to do one.

Correct?

burly · Post by **burly** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:36 pm

As an ifr controller who works the airspace overlying cyet, as far as im concerned you can do whatever you want in uncontrolled airspace, especially edson because its uncontrolled below 180. My only responsibilty once you are in uncontrolled and on descent into edson is maintaining your alerting service. ill provide traffic to other aircraft in the area if necessary and read you the weather, but you can do whatever kind of approach you want there.

planett · Post by **planett** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:44 pm

Just got back from a quick Medevac, in time to see how far I went off the rails with the question. Indeed Edson is uncontrolled, and as others have said, thats why "Cleared out of controlled airspace via XXXX" allows you to proceed VFR or IFR as appropriate with no further clearance and a contact approach essentially doesn't exist there.

groundtoflightdeck · Post by **groundtoflightdeck** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:56 pm

You cannot get a contact approach outside of controlled airspace. It's for controlled only. If you want to go all over the place and there is near by controlled airspace, ask to be cleared to depart controlled airspace in the vicinity of CXXX. Then you can maneuver without ATC violating you.

drifter · Post by **drifter** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:37 pm

This is definatly one of those questions that gets answered differently depending on which captain you fly with. For now i'm going to have to go with "doesn't hurt to ask" even though burley says that contollers don't care. cya I guess.

oldncold · Post by **oldncold** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:09 pm

for those that read the tc aviation safety letter

there is a great refresher on the ifr approach types and min
in 2 06 issue i believe copy it and post in the flt plan room of your operation.

should be on line aswell

for those that have not read it maybe it is time to take it out of the brown envelope and grab a coffee it is always a good read/fly safe out there