So...

Guido · Post by **Guido** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:31 am

So, it's ok, when we're doing it to the bad-guys, but if they do it to us, it's evil and villanous? Double standard or what?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... rnational/

Panama Jack · Post by **Panama Jack** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:54 am

I understand what you are saying, yet, I guess we require analysis as the lines start to get blurred.

Case 1:

Insurgents lop off the heads of foreign non-combatants. (Iraq and Saudi Arabia)

Case 2:

Military lop off the heads of captured insurgents. (Afghanistan)

Case 3:

The state condems prisoners found guilty of certain crimes to death. Beheading is the form of the death penalty. (Saudi Arabia and other Islamic states)

hz2p · Post by **hz2p** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:22 am

Hey PJ, you seem to have all the answers - why don't you head on over to the middle east and sort out all these minor problems they're having?

Mitch Cronin · Post by **Mitch Cronin** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:33 am

Hmmmm... I guess I missed the part where he said he had all the answers.

What I read was "we require analysis as the lines start to get blurred."

That's hard to argue with when it comes to a fight that's been going on for hundreds of years.

Panama Jack · Post by **Panama Jack** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:15 am

hz2p wrote:Hey PJ, you seem to have all the answers - why don't you head on over to the middle east and sort out all these minor problems they're having?

Griffon is right, I don't claim to have all the answers.

As for the rest, guess where I'm sitting right now???

hz2p · Post by **hz2p** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:19 am

That's a trick question, right? How about, "In front of a computer"?

I knew all those years of writing DOT exams would pay off sometime!

Flybabe · Post by **Flybabe** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:24 am

PJ.. wouldn't trade you. Mighty big cahones to be right in the middle of everything...

Panama Jack · Post by **Panama Jack** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:28 am

he he he hz2p. You see, we do have a lot in common.

Not everything Flybabe, just this.

In fact Flybabe, my cojones are pretty small compared to another friend of mine-- he is out in his Afghanistan with his wife and two young children, flying a King Air and "bringing" the Bible to the people there. I'm comforted to know he is looking to move on.

bandaid · Post by **bandaid** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:34 am

Regardless of what lines may or may not be blurred here the beheading of another human being whether in time of war or not is barbaric. That is one of the reasons why the Geneva Convention prohibited cruelty to prisoners. I'm not so nieve as to think that this type of treatment hasn't been going of for centuries, I am however totally disgusted that the one perpetrating these atrocities feel compelled to tape and telecast their actions. Thunderdome isn't that unrealistic anymore.

Panama Jack · Post by **Panama Jack** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:07 am

I am however totally disgusted that the one perpetrating these atrocities feel compelled to tape and telecast their actions.

I agree 100% with you bandaid. A friend of mine asked me if I wanted to see the video of then they shot the guy in his garage in Riyadh-- I declined. I think death is an incredibly private matter, especially one as horrific and fearsome such as this. Even at such a time they don't allow someone his dignity.

I don't claim to have solutions, but I can only offer my raw impression . . . . these people are animals.

Mitch Cronin · Post by **Mitch Cronin** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:22 am

Panama Jack wrote:Griffon is right,

Hot damn! That's gotta be about the first time that's happened on this forum!

I agree with you too bandaid... I think it's probably safe to say most of the free world does. ... Unfortunately the barbarism isn't always all one sided. If it was, it'd be a lot easier to identify the bad guys, wouldn't it?! Heck, sometimes I'm not even sure if the Yanks are on the "right" side of the fence. Some defense of the actions in Abu Graihb claims that "non combatants aren't protected by the Geneva convention"... Surely those protections are a minimum of what ought to be afforded to any prisoner!

I know... mustn't paint them all with the same brush... and I won't, but Geeez....!

... · Post by **...** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:28 am

Griffon wrote:
Panama Jack wrote:Griffon is right,
Hot damn! That's gotta be about the first time that's happened on this forum!

Actually you're wrong about that.

Disco Stu · Post by **Disco Stu** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:31 am

I don't think the article in the Globe and Mail is condoning the beheading in Afghanistan.

DiscoDashSeven · Post by **DiscoDashSeven** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:10 pm

Guido wrote:So, it's ok, when we're doing it to the bad-guys, but if they do it to us, it's evil and villanous? Double standard or what?

Who said it was OK for us to do it?

just another pilot · Post by **just another pilot** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:15 pm

It read like the Afgans beheaded, not the Americans. That seems to be the standard punishment in the middle/far east. The Germans put a Luger to the back of "prisoner of war" heads, was that better? Maybe more humane, but...
Beheading is a grusome spectacle, that is why they do it - for the recoil and reaction. Beheading is an effective deterrent. Westerners over the years have found more efficient and effective ways to kill/euthanize, because it seems more civilized. In the end however, dead is dead.
As for the comments that started this thread, I see no double standard here. Afgans killed terrorists. Americans did not kidnap civilians and execute them on internet video.

Seb · Post by **Seb** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:18 pm

Correct me if im wrong but there is a minor difference between kiling civilians and soldiers. Double standard? I dont thinks so...the way in which they were executed might not sit well with our western standards but isnt't one of the objectives of this fck'ed up war to get rid of taliban in the first place? What Al-queda(sp) is doing is a little bit different, they target foreign civilian nationals to exert pressure on the political opinion regarding the war, case of extreme propaganda. To put it bluntly, killing is not barbaric unless you're killing civilians...

DiscoDashSeven · Post by **DiscoDashSeven** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:35 pm

Seb wrote: To put it bluntly, killing is not barbaric unless you're killing civilians...

I guess it's ok for soldiers to die? Thats what our tax dollars pay for.

Seb · Post by **Seb** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:43 pm

its not ok but its part of the job describtion..

N2 · Post by N2 » Wed Jun 23, 2004 1:09 pm

If it were up to me I wouldn't behead these Al Qaeda guys. I'd round them all up put them in an old office tower then implode the middle floors and let them get crushed to death the way those in the towers were. Even better make them give each other a nitro enema then make them do jumping jacks!

Panama Jack · Post by **Panama Jack** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:03 pm

I hereby nominate N2 as project manager. Would anybody like to second the nomination? B.T.W., N2, hope you're not just infected by the epidemic of political promises going around these days.

bandaid · Post by **bandaid** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:23 pm

I did say that it has been going on for centuries but it is still barbaric. Beheading the Al Qaeda is not the answer as I believe that they think that they one to a better place especially if you make them martyrs. It is very much shock value that they are going for here and the fact that the media picks this stuff up with a gleeful flurry sickens me. I guess they wouldn't be so quick to televise these events if their weren't such a morbid facination.
It has been stated that the world will end when their is peace in the Middle East. The sorry fact of the matter is that the fight has gone global.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:54 pm

bandaid wrote: It has been stated that the world will end when their is peace in the Middle East..

I think they meant "peace and quiet" as in the ME would be a big glass parking lot..

Since we all frowned on my suggestion for genocide(of all humans).

the only other way to resolve this issue.. Pull out everyones tongue, pluck our eyes and cut off our ears.

Still not 100% equallity.. But 99% better.. =)

So...

So...

Re: So...