DA40

Barney · Post by **Barney** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:24 pm

Anyone out there instructing on the DA40 with G1000 on it. Let me
know your thoughts on how hard it is to learn and or teach on it.

MRO · Post by **MRO** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:53 pm

The DA40 is a little too complex and a little too touchy for a new ppl student. I tried teaching 3 ppl students on it, 2 quit because it was too frustrating, one finished his PPl on another plane. He was very bad on the DA40 but he was an above average student on the DV20. Every other instructor at our school had similar stats on the DA40. I never saw one student complete a PPl on it.

It is good for CPL training and an intro to the multi. I found once a student was around 100hrs they were good enough to pck up the DA40 a little better.

If you are asking about the GPS then I would say that you can use it for the radios and thats about it. Select a screen without the moving map during cross country stuff otherwise your students will be dependant on it and never learn VOR, NDB, or even basic map reading skills.

My 2 cents.

beechy · Post by **beechy** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:18 pm

Did all my training on the DA20....then got a checkout on the the 40 (with non glass cockpit) it was easy as pie if you ask me......it seemed to be just likethe DA20 handling wise.....even a similar check list, power control, walkaround everything seemed very similar....except it is faster.

Have never used a Garmin 1000....but iam looking forward to learning it eventually......it might be a bit much for really low time people, alot of info coming at you and updated by the second.......then again people tend to over complicate things most of the time ....Must be because we like to feel special......So as for your question haven't taught on it and have no useful information for you......

chipmunk · Post by **chipmunk** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:22 pm

I agree with Beechy - the DA40 flies pretty much exactly like the DA20.

I have never taught on the DA40, and only have a small amount of time on it, but I did a transition course for the DA42 (which, incidentally, flies pretty much the exact same as the DA40 with the exception of needing to be more aggressive with the rudder), and with my instructor background, I can draw the following recommendations:

A proper ground school should be done on the G1000 if equipped, prior to flight training, so the student can learn to navigate thru it and become familiar with it first. Just like any training, be ready to cover up the G1000 when teaching attitude flying, because yes, they will fixate on it! It is important, though, as with flight training on any platform, to ensure the student learns how to use every tool that's available to them in the aircraft during the flight... integrate traditional map reading with the use of the proper "pages" in the MFD (not sure if the DA40 G1000 has the terrain option...) You will look VERY STUPID as an instructor if your student gets lost on a solo cross country flight and doesn't know how to put Direct-To into the GPS...

Plan your lessons (you may need a whole revamp of your outlines) so that they are CLEAR and relate to the G1000, ensure that the student isn't being bombarded with tons of info at once (the ground school will help this) and - I can't say this enough - ensure you are teaching attitude flying, and enforcing it - looking inside is the stem of many problems students have. Don't get lazy as an instructor. And be sure you know your sh*t before you teach it.

So other than the G1000 - which is very pilot-friendly, simple to use once you know the principals (and a piece of cake to pick up if you have G430/530 time) - it's just an airplane...

My 2 cents.

(yes, I'm ranting... it irritates me when it's suggested to ignore such an important tool in the aircraft and just use it for the radios.)

beechy · Post by **beechy** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:46 pm

One wise chipmunk......Here's a neat fact......they can store food in hundreds of places, in the fall, and then during the winter actually navigate their way back to all the food dumps....pretty impressive....

chipmunk · Post by **chipmunk** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:09 pm

What about the one that doesn't remember or store anything... it just drips oil from a noisy Gypsy Major?

Miss Mae · Post by **Miss Mae** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:13 am

I've taught on the G1000, and have found that given the groundschool and flight training to transition, pilots are usually good to go in 2-3 days. If they have previous expeirence on the Garmin 430/530, than those times are reduced (same basic knobology)

I wouldn't suggest the DA40 for PPL students (glass or otherwise), keep it simple, stick to the 20. Besides the 40 is not spin certified.

MRO · Post by **MRO** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:38 pm

chipmunk wrote: use every tool that's available to them in the aircraft during the flight...

You will look VERY STUPID as an instructor if your student gets lost on a solo cross country flight and doesn't know how to put Direct-To into the GPS...

(yes, I'm ranting... it irritates me when it's suggested to ignore such an important tool in the aircraft and just use it for the radios.)

The trick is to teach a student how to map read well enough not to get lost then introduce the GPS. If you show them the GPS (easy) then the map reading (hard) which do you think they will use. Then come flight test time when the examiner wont allow the GPS used for a diversion guess what...you will have a failure.

I tought for many hours on the DA40 and the 20 so Im not just talking out of my ass.

(I know Im ranting but it pisses me off when people get pissed off about my comments)

P.S. Never had a student get lost on a x country and never had one fail diversions

chipmunk · Post by **chipmunk** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:21 pm

MRO wrote:
The trick is to teach a student how to map read well enough not to get lost then introduce the GPS. If you show them the GPS (easy) then the map reading (hard) which do you think they will use. Then come flight test time when the examiner wont allow the GPS used for a diversion guess what...you will have a failure.

I tought for many hours on the DA40 and the 20 so Im not just talking out of my ass.

(I know Im ranting but it pisses me off when people get pissed off about my comments)

P.S. Never had a student get lost on a x country and never had one fail diversions

I'm sorry. I must know the pilot in the world who has ever become lost on a cross country flight during training. Oh wait, I remember at least one time during my training I became "unsure of my position" and used the GPS to help out... it's amazing how many little towns all over the country have a river, a power line and a railroad track beside them at the same angles as the next town over.

Sure, the examiner may not allow the use of a GPS on a flight test diversion, but as an instructor, you should already know you're not just teaching a student to pass a flight test. Interestingly enough, I've heard of one examiner that in his debrief of a flight test (in a non-G1000 a/c), told the student and his instructor that he was surprised the student didn't even TRY to use the GPS on a diversion.

P.S. If you reread my post you will notice that I mentioned to use every tool available (which means maps) and clearly mentioned "traditional map reading."

water wings · Post by **water wings** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 3:48 pm

does this mean i can finally get rid of my notched pencil?

MRO · Post by **MRO** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:59 pm

I guess my problem is that early in my instructing days I tought a student all about the GPS and sure enough he went out and did his entire x country using that. I doubt he even took out his map. It was a nightmare after that to break that habit.

It is better to teach him how to do it with his map, then once he is good he can be shown other items. I guess Im a little old school when it comes to GPS. I see too many pilots nowadays with a moving map display that they totally rely on and would be lost without. That is not acceptable if you ask me.

Maybe my comment earlier about using it only as a radio was a little extreme. However I felt like I had to hide the moving map in order to force the student to read his map.

By the way I always went into great detail on the GPS for all of my renters and COTs. Just not the PPL who didnt know his ass from a hole in the map.

MRO · Post by **MRO** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:05 pm

BTW you are not the only person to become confused on a crosscountry. Im sure many of my students did as well. But regaining your bearings using your map and brain is entirely possable, and is becoming a lost art.

I remember getting lost on my first x country but I found my way and became a better pilot for recognizing the need for that map.

Oh ya one more thing. Since I left instructing I have not seen a plane with a GPS as nice as the one I tought on. If a PPL becomes reliant on that from day one what is he gonna do when he gets into a plane without anything even close to that. The truth is that most companies dont spend that kind of cash to acomidate lazy map reading.

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:44 pm

Miss Mae wrote:I've taught on the G1000, and have found that given the groundschool and flight training to transition, pilots are usually good to go in 2-3 days. If they have previous expeirence on the Garmin 430/530, than those times are reduced (same basic knobology)

I'm going to use 'knobology' in a sentance the first chance I get! That's awesome!

Sorry for the hijack, resume squawking 1200.

Spokes · Post by **Spokes** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:11 pm

water wings wrote:does this mean i can finally get rid of my notched pencil?

As far as I know, your not even allowed to use that one any more on a flight test. I geuss if you really get lost, you may not have a notched pencil with you.