Great Job IAF,Another crime goes by...Cowards

niss · Post by **niss** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:38 pm

Its pretty easy to say stuff like that when you are on the other side of the planet from the violence, when you are not directly affected by it. When you have the luctury to stand back and take an "unbiased" opinion on the matter.

The fact is that at the end of the day Israel will make sure she survives and if it takes 500, 1000, 10000 civilians so be it. Israel will make sure that she stays on this planet, thats the reality on the ground.

Trust me, no matter what side you take, no matter what political affiliation you have, the only thing that matters on this planet is you and your family. And I am sure at the very least you can aprreciate doing whatever it takes to defend your family, and guess what as long as the rockets keep coming, Israel will defend her family.

AM ISRAEL CHAI!

spoiler · Post by **spoiler** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 5:13 pm

niss wrote: The fact is that at the end of the day Israel will make sure she survives and if it takes 500, 1000, 10000 civilians so be it. Israel will make sure that she stays on this planet, thats the reality on the ground.

You sound a lot like Hitler.

Flying Low · Post by **Flying Low** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 5:28 pm

Not exactly...Hitler wanted all of Europe and a good chunk of Asia (and likely the rest of the planet). Israel wants to exist. The only times they have expanded their territory, as far as I know, is in response to aggression.

Icebound · Post by **Icebound** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 5:50 pm

Tubthumper wrote:So, Apollo, let me get this right. You think Israel should just sit there twiddle it's thumbs while even if they never fired a shot at anyone, Hezbolah and Hamas would STILL fire ammo into Isreali territory. Well we know whos side you're on. Ever ask an arab why Israel is hated, even before they became nation? The excuses for it go deep. You can't go to the UN (United Nothing) for any help in this issue because they are USE-LESS.

An example of how tenuous democracy and the rule of law can be.

A government or organization works, not because it can impose its rules on its members through force, but because its members accept those rules and laws even when they may disagree with them.

In the cold-war era, notwithstanding serious divisions in the world, and nothwithstanding all of its flaws, the UN "worked".... because, for some reason, the countries with disputes seemed to prefer to shout at each other across the floor of the UN, rather than lob rockets at each other across their own borders.

But in recent years, countries made it known that they know better than the UN, the UN is corrupt, the UN is USE-LESS.. ... Justified or not, these have become a self-fullfilling prophecies.

The alternative to the UN is that all the countries choose up sides, establish alliances, and face off in a world war. Okay, I guess, if that is what we prefer..... will any of us, including Israel, be better off afterwards?

.... It's not like most other wars where a country can 'lose' a war, but still exist afterward. France lost to Germany, but still exists intact. Germany and Japan lost the war, but still exist and are properous. There are many other examples, but this is not the case with Israel. If they lose, they will be wiped off the map completely.

Israel can win (or lose) the military "war" the day after tomorrow and it will not change a thing in so far as a peaceful existence in the region is concerned.

It is not a matter of winning or losing a war. It is a matter of having an Israel that can survive in peace, an Israeli government that "works" for its citizens. 60 years of the current form of Israel has not produced peace. I submit that the powers-that-be should maybe be considering a different formula, don't you think?

And I can't help thinking that they were oh, so close, after 9/11. With the Taliban and Al Qaeda on the run in Afghanistan... for the first time the Arab countries were all onside against terrorism... There was nowhere for the extremists to go, really. The world powers could now apply pressure within the UN and have the entire world on-side whenever a rogue state tried to foster or shield the terrorists. And having that lever, would also have allowed the application of pressure on Israel to improve its relations with its neighbours and with its Palestinian citizens.

But of course the US just couldn't resist the urge to prematurely open that big vacuum in Iraq. Not only did that give the terrorists a place to go, but it weakened Arab pro-American resolve and emboldened the anti-American-anti-Israeli zealots in those other countries.

All of which brings us to current events.

Pick a side... it looks like our fearless leader already has....

...and maybe find a good bunker, too.

...

Vickers vanguard · Post by **Vickers vanguard** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:14 pm

Mr Niss, so far, it took God's will and the lives of a lot of people in the second war (Americans, british, canadian, etc......) to save your sorry asses ! Because if it was up to you only, you'll be looooooong gone! your army is a bunch of cowards, as we can see today.
Unable to even take a bloody village from the hands of few hundreds Guerillas, the IDF retaliates by killing children and women ! so, you're saying that those people were warned ? yeh right, and then as soon as they start moving in convoys, you take them out from the air..............claiming that they were Hizbollah moving supplies ???
Right now, you're able to do what you are doing, thanks to the help of the united states of America, which you took complete control of their foreign politics.....by different means. The United states went from a very liked nation in the second war, to a country with a lot of enemies today. what will probably happen in the future, in 10,50 or even 100 years, is that someday, some powers will rise south of the border and will start looking for the reasons behind their country's decadence.....at that time, we might even see another remake of the German craziness !
One last detail there, I don't think it's very appropriate to write hebrew using English letters, as a lot of people on this forum do not understand it...................I don't think anybody is writing Arabic using English letters.

spoiler · Post by **spoiler** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:32 pm

Flying Low wrote:Not exactly...Hitler wanted all of Europe and a good chunk of Asia (and likely the rest of the planet). Israel wants to exist. The only times they have expanded their territory, as far as I know, is in response to aggression.

why expand territory in response to aggression? Unless that is the goal in the first place. If they were actually 'defending' themselves would they not still remain within their borders?
They feel the arabs are beneath them, that has been stated by Niss many times. Sound familiar?

talkinghead · Post by **talkinghead** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:45 pm

NO matter how you look at this or who’s side you are on this looks BAD. Real bad.
The best thing the Hezbollah could do, is sit back and watch Israel get creamed in the press. Sorry NISS but you can not sit there and say killing this many woman and children is OK.
Its heartless, I am thinking you know that.
Israel screwed up and I think they know it. They called for a 48 hour cease fire, that tells me they are thinking hard about how to proceed with this war(?).

niss · Post by **niss** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:51 pm

I never said arabs are beneath me and as for territory expansion that only occured during war that Israel was on the defensive. Also, I do believe especially during the 70s that the wars were done with very little international support, Israel had to develope her own strategies, equipment etc. ever heard of the KFIR? That was when israel had the mirages from france and was cut off, so they had to rebuild them themselves.

as for VVs obvious resentment for the state of Israel, and jews alike I think I can offer an explanation.

Vickers vanguard
Rank 4

Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 255

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:01 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

priest wrote:
. Muslims, on the other hand, believe that Mohammed is the true prophet, not Jesus, and salvation comes from him.

now , that's a bullshit ! where the hell did you get that ???? let me enlight you with this : Muslims believe in ALLLLL prophetes...ALLLLL. Mohamed was simply the last one.......we believe...and he's just a god damn HUMAN BEING and nothing else.....
What muslims don't believe, is that JESUS is in some kind the son of GOD........
I usually don't discuss religion at all, you can't prove anything and you can claim anything in that case. I just keep it deep in my heart for my sorry Ass......it gives some sense to a lot of unanswered questions.

Now I didnt want to play the race card here but this I think explains his animocity towards Jews.

Regarding my writing of Hebrew in english letters, I very well could tell you that I can write whatever I want and you can feel free to go @#$! yourself with a rusty spoon if you dont like it, but I wont, and I did translate the Masada thing. As for Am Israel Chai, its a saying in Hebrew that means "The Nation of Israel Lives".

Israel can win (or lose) the military "war" the day after tomorrow and it will not change a thing in so far as a peaceful existence in the region is concerned.

All wars in the past against Israel were to eraticate Jews from the ME (read: Kill all the Jews in the middle east)

It is not a matter of winning or losing a war. It is a matter of having an Israel that can survive in peace, an Israeli government that "works" for its citizens. 60 years of the current form of Israel has not produced peace.

Actually, the current formula has produced peace with Egypt and Jordan, but I guess those werent in the books you guys were reading were they?

Vickers vanguard · Post by **Vickers vanguard** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:18 pm

niss wrote:I never said arabs are beneath me and as for territory expansion that only occured during war that Israel was on the defensive. Also, I do believe especially during the 70s that the wars were done with very little international support, Israel had to develope her own strategies, equipment etc. ever heard of the KFIR? That was when israel had the mirages from france and was cut off, so they had to rebuild them themselves.

as for VVs obvious resentment for the state of Israel, and jews alike I think I can offer an explanation.

Vickers vanguard
Rank 4

Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 255

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:01 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

priest wrote:
. Muslims, on the other hand, believe that Mohammed is the true prophet, not Jesus, and salvation comes from him.

now , that's a bullshit ! where the hell did you get that ???? let me enlight you with this : Muslims believe in ALLLLL prophetes...ALLLLL. Mohamed was simply the last one.......we believe...and he's just a god damn HUMAN BEING and nothing else.....
What muslims don't believe, is that JESUS is in some kind the son of GOD........
I usually don't discuss religion at all, you can't prove anything and you can claim anything in that case. I just keep it deep in my heart for my sorry Ass......it gives some sense to a lot of unanswered questions.

Now I didnt want to play the race card here but this I think explains his animocity towards Jews.

?

You 're really funny Niss, you quoted the above post by me..............which only say that MUSLIMS BELIEVE IN ALL PROPHETS ! ALL ! that can't be clearer ! I was calling bullshit on somebody's claim that muslims only believed in Mohamed and not the rest. now tell me, apart from Mohamed, all the rest were jews..............including what we believe is the first Muslim : Abraham. Do you see where I'm going with this.... I told you before, trying to portray me as anti-jew will not work. Stop that old tactic of playing the world's victim.
By the way, stay polite and respect yourself if you want people to respect you. I wouldn't tolerate comments like :I very well could tell you that I can write whatever I want and you can feel free to go @#$! yourself with a rusty spoon What the heck ? you can critisize anybody and we aren't supposed to talk about Jews !!
Anyway, 40 prophets or so later, and you guys are still as arrogant as you were a 1000 years ago !
.....I need some sleep now..........

Driving Rain · Post by **Driving Rain** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:34 pm

Has anyone else noted that when the civilian casualties mount up the politicians responsible or their spokes-persons always say... "we regret the loss of civilian life" I believe the US, Israel and Canada have all used this statement a few times of late. Of course it means nothing because true regret brings about change and for good measure lengthy prison sentences for the rest of us.

Flying Low · Post by **Flying Low** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:47 pm

why expand territory in response to aggression?

Two words! Buffer Zone!

niss · Post by **niss** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:53 pm

VV, while I do apologise for getting uncivil in my response, it was in frustration of the stereotypical and antisemetic rhetoric of yours.

you guys are still as arrogant as you were a 1000 years ago !

Just a small example of some of the things you have been saying about Jews, but I guess since you dont concider yourself Anti-Jewish then you are not. And my quote of you was to offer an explanation of how you can harbour such an attitude against Israel and Jews in general. You gave me no other reason, you never attacked me personally, you just seemed to not like Jews. If I am wrong please accept my most sincere apologies, I was out of line and I respectfuly retract my statement and I beg your forgiveness. If there is a thread of truth that would lead me to accurately outline your attitudes, then well this is a semi-anonymous forum, I dont know you and you dont really know me, you have to live with yourself, if you see no problem, than fair enough to you and godspeed, there are enough racists out there that you wont be alone.

Nark · Post by **Nark** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:12 pm

Heres an idea.

Pick a side. Theres only two. So it should be an easy choice.

Lommer · Post by **Lommer** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:46 pm

Niss said:

Also, I do believe especially during the 70s that the wars were done with very little international support, Israel had to develope her own strategies, equipment etc.

Give me a f'in break. Ever heard of the Yom Kippur War? Or Operation Nickel Grass (the american airlift of supplies to bail them out)? Yea, the rest of the world bowed to the oil power the arabs weilded and hung israel out to dry, but the USofA came through big time. So while I'll acknowledge that Isreal didn't have a lot of international support in the '70s, don't pretend like they were left all by themselves.

as for territory expansion that only occured during war that Israel was on the defensive.

Bullshit again. Isreal acquired the bulk of its "occupied territory" during the Isreali-started six-day war (Gaza strip, Sinai, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights were all acquired in '67).

I have more sympathy for Isreal than some people in this forum, but when you try to argue your position based on premises that are clearly factually wrong it really hits a nerve.

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:56 pm

Nark wrote:Heres an idea.

Pick a side. Theres only two. So it should be an easy choice.

Nark - you're always such an idiot - why don't you go back to Jumpstreet where you belong...

There are not only two sides and people should not be blinded with the idea that they have to pick one. People should not be blinded in nationalist/religous/racist/political/moral/corupt ideology - look at every action for what it is as a human being and realize, empathize with what you are witnessing. Ask yourself if it is right...

niss - your concern with anti-semitic rhetoric when it isn't present is a jew's burden - get used to it - as long as Israel exists with a secular goverment you will have to carry it.

niss · Post by **niss** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:36 am

Lommer,

67 was a preemtive strike due to massing along the borders, Israels strikes were in anticipation of the oncoming strike and theirfor can not really be concidered instigation as it was the arab states instigating the fight due to their prepartion for war.

As for 73, you are correct Israel did recieve munitions and money from the US, it was also partially due some soviet intervention (Cuba sent roughly 1500 transport + personell) and allowed Israel more combfort zone, she was not immidiatly at risk of losing. Dont forget, in that war Israel still had the Golan and the Sinai, and If I am not mistaken a few hundred miles from Cairo.

Israel has never been soley dependant on any other nations support.

Nark · Post by **Nark** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:04 am

Altiplano:

If I went back to jumpstreet I would have to turn in my rifle. I'd no longer be able to shoot militant muslums. Then who would you love to hate here on avcanada?

I've been to two war-torn countries. The kind that you need a weapon in condition one, carried with you at all times. I've seen things that would make a drunken indian squirm.

Where have you been that you still have rose colored glasses on?

PS. For those of you keeping track, I still havn't been to Iraq. I'll get my chance soon enough.

Apollo · Post by **Apollo** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:28 am

Didn't Israel attack Egypt and push with 50km of the Suez canal, just so that the french and british could attack and kill gen. nassar?

niss · Post by **niss** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:12 am

When?

Shlomo · Post by **Shlomo** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:28 am

niss wrote:Israel has never been soley dependant on any other nations support.

LRB-http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html wrote:Since the October War in 1973, Washington has provided Israel with a level of support dwarfing that given to any other state. It has been the largest annual recipient of direct economic and military assistance since 1976, and is the largest recipient in total since World War Two, to the tune of well over $140 billion (in 2004 dollars). Israel receives about $3 billion in direct assistance each year, roughly one-fifth of the foreign aid budget, and worth about $500 a year for every Israeli. This largesse is especially striking since Israel is now a wealthy industrial state with a per capita income roughly equal to that of South Korea or Spain.

dude, pls break free, you sound worse than al qaida dudes.

Hickory Stick · Post by **Hickory Stick** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:31 am

Peace on earth is not in the works unfortunately. Religious institutions, big business, politics, military profiteers all have figured out that there is money to be made in ignorance and violence.

We as humans are just stupid apes. Imagine if all the money being spent on war, was spent on healthcare and education.

It is not in the interest of pharmecudical companies to cure disease (loss of business) so why would it be in the interest of big business or religious institutions to stop war and destruction?

Anyway you slice it, violence and greed is natures way of controlling the excess human population. Things will not get better, they will only get worse. Where I live, there are recycling bins next to the garbage bin. I'd say 2/3 of the stupid apes throw recyclables into the garbage bin. I make a comment once in a while to the lazy apes about recycling and the usual reponse is "mind yer own business".

Its a fairly silly example, I know. We all know smoking is bad, but many including me still smoke. Just shows, for all of our progress we are still fairly stupid.

My faith in the human race is declining daily, please someone prove me wrong.

Cheers

Jet Dog · Post by **Jet Dog** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:57 am

niss take your zionist ass to your "holy stolen land" and go murder all those lebonese women and children, since your all for mass murder and genocide, glad that will make you wet with pleasure, and you ppl wonder why there's anti-semitism, you'll never understand, because you are a jew!

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:02 am

You'll have to pardon my WASP ignorance here, but I think the big picture is:

1) The Arabs want to kill all the Jews
2) The Jews aren't letting #1 occur
3) The Arabs are upset about #2.

Is that about it?

Icebound · Post by **Icebound** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:43 am

Hedley wrote:You'll have to pardon my WASP ignorance here, but I think the big picture is:

1) The Arabs want to kill all the Jews
2) The Jews aren't letting #1 occur
3) The Arabs are upset about #2.

Is that about it?

That's funny....

It is exactly the way Bush, Harper, and Blair think... and they seem to be acting accordingly.

Unfortunately, the reality is a little bit more complex...and it would be nice if all the relevant parties tried to adjust to reality.

...

Dex · Post by **Dex** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:32 am

Flying Low wrote:
why expand territory in response to aggression?
Two words! Buffer Zone!

Installing civilian settlements to live in war zones as a buffer?