My thoughts exactly.Dex wrote:Flying Low wrote:Two words! Buffer Zone!why expand territory in response to aggression?
Installing civilian settlements to live in war zones as a buffer?
Great Job IAF,Another crime goes by...Cowards
Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako
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niss
- Top Poster
- Posts: 6745
- Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:54 pm
- Location: I'm a CPL trapped in a PPL's Body.
- Contact:
Actually the reason there is anti-semitism is because ignorant mouthbreathing knuckledragging fucks like you arent sterolized at birth and are allowed to procreate. And ya I am a jew, what does that make you? a dirty shit eating cocsucking @#$!, who the closest he is ever going to get to some pussy is when he passed through his moms? Give me a fucking break.niss take your zionist ass to your "holy stolen land" and go murder all those lebonese women and children, since your all for mass murder and genocide, glad that will make you wet with pleasure, and you ppl wonder why there's anti-semitism, you'll never understand, because you are a jew!
She’s built like a Steakhouse, but she handles like a Bistro.
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
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Hickory Stick
- Rank 3
- Posts: 164
- Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:28 am
- Location: Canada again
Your both retards! Arguing about stupid shit. Niss, seriously who cares that your a Jew! Your people are killing their people, their people are killing your people..in the end your all retarded.
Keep this stupid shit out of Canada! You and the retards that your fighting can go back to the sand pit and fight it out there. I like the peace here.
Stop being retarded! No one will win this stupid pissing match, its been going on for thousands of years. It has not been resolved thus all sides have proved how RETARDED they are. Corky puts all you guys to shame.
Cheers
Keep this stupid shit out of Canada! You and the retards that your fighting can go back to the sand pit and fight it out there. I like the peace here.
Stop being retarded! No one will win this stupid pissing match, its been going on for thousands of years. It has not been resolved thus all sides have proved how RETARDED they are. Corky puts all you guys to shame.
Cheers
You have no idea how good we have it in Canada!
I think both sides need a history lesson. Let's start with the definition of a Pyrrhic Victory, cause that's where both sides are taking this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic_victory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic_victory
All the name calling in the world will not help this discussion. People like Altiplano and Bob Sacamnaure are the general shit disturbers. Niss, your reaction and verbal abuse just eggs them on. I understand your patriotism and your support for Israel as it is close to my heart as well but we have to face a couple of very relevant facts:
The IDF tends to become overzealous in their efforts to suppress "terrorism" especially when they have been given the "carte blanche" to do so by the US, without whom there would be NO State of Israel. The IAF and IDF accuracy during their strikes on Hezbollah targets leaves much to be desired and they should refine their precision, orbit more drones and pin point the rocket sites more effectively. Mossad and military intel should be working on a strategy to obtain human intelligence with regard to the rocket sites in order to accomplish their strike precision against Hezbollah rocket sites, weapons caches and operational centres.
here is the flip side of the coin. Hezbollah deliberately positions their rocket launchers in the MIDDLE of densely populated civilian areas and they have a specific purpose in doing so. When the IDF attack these sites, the terrorists have already left after launching the rockets and woman and childeren are forced to stay in the area under the direct threat of death by Hezbollah field commanders. When these civilians get whacked, Hezbollah cry foul and step up their propaganda machinery which leads to the following:
International outcry
International condemnation of Israel and the IDF
Radical Arab support for the cause
Thousands of new recruits joining Hezbollah
Sucks like Altiplano, Vicker Vanguard, Bob Sacamnaure and others believing all the shit they get fed in the press and on TV
UN condeming Israel.
Canadian bleeding heart sucks being sympathetic to the Arab cause and even condeming the US and Harper for supporting Israel.
An interesting fact is that Hezbollah used the close proximity of UN posts for rocket launches in order to lure IDF attacks which not being as precise as they should be, led to the deaths of UN personnel.
All you gullible sucks out there need to do a reality check. Most of the fault lies at the door of the Hezbollah and their Syrian and Iranian masters and you narrow minded press followers of bullshit tow the line and do exactly as expected.
The IDF tends to become overzealous in their efforts to suppress "terrorism" especially when they have been given the "carte blanche" to do so by the US, without whom there would be NO State of Israel. The IAF and IDF accuracy during their strikes on Hezbollah targets leaves much to be desired and they should refine their precision, orbit more drones and pin point the rocket sites more effectively. Mossad and military intel should be working on a strategy to obtain human intelligence with regard to the rocket sites in order to accomplish their strike precision against Hezbollah rocket sites, weapons caches and operational centres.
here is the flip side of the coin. Hezbollah deliberately positions their rocket launchers in the MIDDLE of densely populated civilian areas and they have a specific purpose in doing so. When the IDF attack these sites, the terrorists have already left after launching the rockets and woman and childeren are forced to stay in the area under the direct threat of death by Hezbollah field commanders. When these civilians get whacked, Hezbollah cry foul and step up their propaganda machinery which leads to the following:
International outcry
International condemnation of Israel and the IDF
Radical Arab support for the cause
Thousands of new recruits joining Hezbollah
Sucks like Altiplano, Vicker Vanguard, Bob Sacamnaure and others believing all the shit they get fed in the press and on TV
UN condeming Israel.
Canadian bleeding heart sucks being sympathetic to the Arab cause and even condeming the US and Harper for supporting Israel.
An interesting fact is that Hezbollah used the close proximity of UN posts for rocket launches in order to lure IDF attacks which not being as precise as they should be, led to the deaths of UN personnel.
All you gullible sucks out there need to do a reality check. Most of the fault lies at the door of the Hezbollah and their Syrian and Iranian masters and you narrow minded press followers of bullshit tow the line and do exactly as expected.
Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war
Hahaha - Oh man - what is it with the Jews! Jerry Seinfeld, Garry Shandling, the Stooges... Now niss! - You Jews crack me up!!!niss wrote:Actually the reason there is anti-semitism is because ignorant mouthbreathing knuckledragging fucks like you arent sterolized at birth and are allowed to procreate. And ya I am a jew, what does that make you? a dirty shit eating cocsucking @#$!, who the closest he is ever going to get to some pussy is when he passed through his moms? Give me a fucking break.
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shitdisturber
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2165
- Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:38 pm
- Location: If it's Monday it's got to be somewhere shitty
All this antisemitism and antimuslimism; is that a word, while revealing is such a waste of all your creative talents. Believe me, I'm finding some of you to be very creative. Hedley was on the right track. Hezbollah long ago decided that Israel and Israelies had no right to exist and they were going to do something about it. For some strange reason, the Israelies object, I wonder why. Since it doesn't seem that either side is likely to get reasonable any time in the near future; innocents on both sides of the conflict, and some in the middle as well, are going to continue to get slaughtered.
Before anybody accuses me of being in favour of one side or the other; I'm completely neutral. In my opinion, there's plenty of scumbags on both sides that need to lean up against a wall somewhere nad have a gander at the wrong side of a firing squad.
Before anybody accuses me of being in favour of one side or the other; I'm completely neutral. In my opinion, there's plenty of scumbags on both sides that need to lean up against a wall somewhere nad have a gander at the wrong side of a firing squad.
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bob sacamano
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1680
- Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:26 am
- Location: I'm not in Kansas anymore
IDF wrote:All the name calling in the world will not help this discussion. People like Altiplano and Bob Sacamnaure are the general shit disturbers. Niss, your reaction and verbal abuse just eggs them on. I understand your patriotism and your support for Israel as it is close to my heart as well but we have to face a couple of very relevant facts:
The IDF tends to become overzealous in their efforts to suppress "terrorism" especially when they have been given the "carte blanche" to do so by the US, without whom there would be NO State of Israel. The IAF and IDF accuracy during their strikes on Hezbollah targets leaves much to be desired and they should refine their precision, orbit more drones and pin point the rocket sites more effectively. Mossad and military intel should be working on a strategy to obtain human intelligence with regard to the rocket sites in order to accomplish their strike precision against Hezbollah rocket sites, weapons caches and operational centres.
here is the flip side of the coin. Hezbollah deliberately positions their rocket launchers in the MIDDLE of densely populated civilian areas and they have a specific purpose in doing so. When the IDF attack these sites, the terrorists have already left after launching the rockets and woman and childeren are forced to stay in the area under the direct threat of death by Hezbollah field commanders. When these civilians get whacked, Hezbollah cry foul and step up their propaganda machinery which leads to the following:
International outcry
International condemnation of Israel and the IDF
Radical Arab support for the cause
Thousands of new recruits joining Hezbollah
Sucks like Altiplano, Vicker Vanguard, Bob Sacamnaure and others believing all the shit they get fed in the press and on TV
UN condeming Israel.
Canadian bleeding heart sucks being sympathetic to the Arab cause and even condeming the US and Harper for supporting Israel.
An interesting fact is that Hezbollah used the close proximity of UN posts for rocket launches in order to lure IDF attacks which not being as precise as they should be, led to the deaths of UN personnel.
All you gullible sucks out there need to do a reality check. Most of the fault lies at the door of the Hezbollah and their Syrian and Iranian masters and you narrow minded press followers of bullshit tow the line and do exactly as expected.
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: What's up with idf anyways. It's an occupying military force, and an invading force. Where does the defense come into play?
I'm here all week folks.
IDF - Maybe you would rather have a big love-in and agree with each other on this thread. Is that what makes me a shit disturber? Sounds like briss is the name caller who has a hard time holding down an intelligent point in the expression of his argument...IDF wrote:People like Altiplano and Bob Sacamnaure are the general shit disturbers... Sucks like Altiplano, Vicker Vanguard, Bob Sacamnaure and others believing all the shit they get fed in the press and on TV
But I do not believe very much of what I read or see in the press and take it all with a giant grain of salt. I am not pro-muslim I am not pro jew.
By expressing a belief that there are not only 2 sides/points of view to a conflict I am trying to shake the us or them idea out of some of your thick heads... Ultimatums a la Bush's "You're either with us or against us in this war on terror..." are irrational...
It is not black and white - get your heads out of that way of thinking and be objective - get your own ideas on what is happening in this world - don't just believe someone else's.
On a lighter note...
Yeshiva University decides to field a rowing team. Unfortunately, they lose race after race. Even though they practice and practice for hours every day, they never manage to come in any better than dead last.
Finally, the team decides to send Morris Fishbein, its captain, to spy on Harvard, the perennial championship team.
So Morris schlepps off to Cambridge and hides in the bushes next to the Charles River, where he carefully watches the Harvard team at its daily practices.
After a week, Morris returns to Yeshiva. "Well, I figured out their secret," he announces.
"What?! Tell us! Tell us!", his teammates shout.
"We should have only one guy yelling. The other eight should row."
[quote="altiplano"][quote="niss"]if you are Israel, it doesnt matter how many lebanese civilians die in the end, as long as Hezbollah is stopped... they can not be allowed to get in the way of destroying Hezbollah, and I support that 100%. [/quote]
niss the attitude you support is unjust and criminal. You should go sign up and fight alongside your countrymen if you feel so strongly about it. Take your nationalism and @#$! yourself.
I don't like terrorists - I don't like countries that don't believe and adhere to international laws - I am disgusted with the position our government has taken over this war - I am disgusted with this war.
Codemn all acts of violence against civilians - on both sides - Do not take a side or be neutral but decry what is wrong.[/quote]
Interesting comments - I would ask you - What would you do if you were in Isreal right now and held the position that allows you to continue or call of the war?
Remember, you have the enemy who has already stated they want you all dead and gone - and they will not negotiate. The United Nations called for their disarmament many years ago - unsuccessfully. You are supported in your attack by several other Arab nations who have publicly stated you DO have the right to defend yourself.
You also need this information:
There will be some information here that some may want to dispute - but I will quote directly from the Koran and provide the reference in event you wish to challenge my input.
Number 6 is very important.
As I have had the opportunity to work with folks who are not from North America I made it a point to search out and try to understand why they think the way they do. I suspect some of this information may startle you.
I also have discovered that to know the enemy is to better understand them and the better to defeat them.
To start it off - Islam is commonly reported to translate into PEACE. My colleagues from Kuwait - Muslim fighter pilots - made sure that I knew this was not true. It translates into SUBMIT. A fact that is seldom if ever broadcast in North America. They used to joke with me - Submit or die.
I often wondered of they were really joking - but they needed my help at the time - so they were not about to lose my knowledge and abilities.
This is because any Imam or Sheik can impose Islamic law according to his desires - there is no universal rule of Islamic law - there is ISLAMIC GOVERNMENT and it can be very regional. A very different way to look at things..
First - Under Islam, rejecting Mohammed and Allah is itself a sin that Islamic government is told to punish:
Sura 3:31:
"Say: 'If you love God, follow me (Mohammed). God will love you and forgive you your sins. God is forgiving and merciful.'"
Sura 5:49:
"Pronounce judgment among them according to God's revelations (Koran) and do not be led by their desires. Take heed lest they turn you away from a part of that which God has revealed to you. If they reject your judgment, know that it is God's wish to scourge them for their sins. A great many of mankind are evil-doers."
Second - Rejecting Islam is itself a sin that can earn you death.
Sura 4:65
"But they will not - I swear by your Lord - they will not be true believers until they seek your arbitration in their disputes. Then they will not doubt the justice of your verdicts and will submit to you entirely."
Third - Good Muslims long for death, and take the Western aversion to death as a sign that we know we are sinners:
Sura 2:94-95
"Say: 'If God's Abode of the Hereafter is for yourselves alone, to the exclusion of all others, then wish for death if your claim be true!' But they will never wish for death, because of what they did; for God knows the evil-doers."
Fourth - CHRISTIANS ARE UNBELIEVERS
Sura 5:72
"Unbelievers are those who say: 'God is the Messiah, the son of Mary.'"
Fifth - MUSLIMS CANNOT TAKE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS AS FRIENDS
NOTE - [i]They can take non-believers as friends provided there is a financial, personal or political advantage to doing so. When the advantage is gone or no longer required, they are to abandon the friendship. It is quite acceptable to kill that one time friend as no sin is committed in the eyes of a true believer.[/i]
Sura 3:28
"Let not believers make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful - he that does this has nothing to hope for from God - except in self-defense. God admonishes you to fear Him: for to God shall all return."
Sixth - SLAYING UNBELIEVERS is specifically commanded, though they can also be made slaves and their property can be confiscated. Non-muslims have no legal rights in Muslim societies. If unbelievers are not killed, they can be made to pay "Jizya," a tax to buy back rights like owning property, working, or going to school.
Sura 2:191:
"Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is more grievous than bloodshed. But do not fight them within the precincts of the Holy Mosque unless they attack you there; if they attack you put them to the sword. thus shall the unbelievers be rewarded: but if they mend their ways (become Muslims), know that God is forgiving and merciful."
To continue:
I will not even enter into the morality issues that are so abhorred by the average Muslim - because I will then be thought of as a religious fanatic, when in fact I am simply a person who studies their beliefs. Suffice to say the average North American who accepts homosexuality, drunkeness, drug using, common-law marriages and so on as a fact of modern day life would have no idea how this disgusts the average Muslim. It truly fans their hatred of us.
Yeah, I know it disgusts a lot of people here - but I do not think we are prepared to kill someone who does these things.
There is much more but it will simply bore most of you - so in closing this is a short summary - there may be American and Canadian born and raised Muslims - or fresh converts - who will disagree. But that is simply because they are a product of the north American society. Most immigrant parents do not - I say again most - not all - do not think of themselves as citizens of this country. They believe that they are part of a religious world community. Citizenship is secondary.
I can even produce Koranic references for that should it become necessary.
They raise their children very differently from the way we raise our children. So the cycle does not change.
They live differently and are quite capable of killing their own women - honour killings - should they suspect she has even had "thoughts" for a non-approved male.
Koran is logical. It says:
1. Unbelievers are those who do not accept Islam, particularly Jews and Christians.
2. Because unbelievers do not accept Islam, Allah hates them and does not guide them.
3. Because Allah does not guide them, unbelievers become evil-doers - they commit additional sins besides rejecting Islam.
4. Muslims will see the sins of unbelievers plainly, both in non-Muslim society and in dealings with non-Muslims.
5. Therefore, Muslims must fight unbelievers both to limit sin and give unbelievers a chance to go to heaven by becoming Muslims.
Therefore no matter how well they are treated they will continue to make war on the unbeliever. It is written that it must be so - and so it will be.
Note this is very non-pc. It is also the belief of the vast majority of moderate Muslims in the world - for they will SUBMIT to Islam and the Imam who will make the laws..
The moderates - when push comes to shove - will back the hard liners.
It is incredibly rare for any Muslim to go against the commands of an Imam.
I recommend one to get a copy (the Koran) and actually read it. It is not blasphemy as a Christain to read up on other religions.
It also would be helpful to understand that the Mulim faith as a whole is still in the 14'th centurey. That allows the various regional religious leaders to maintain control over their people and promote their individual political agendas.
Sharia law is interpreted regionally - so it can vary from place to place. But it is quite impressive to watch a man have his hand or head cut off - sometimes with only hearsay as evidence of wrong doing.
Anyone here who has done one or more tours of duty in the middle east will tell you that life there is VERY different from what we are used to.
My non - pc thoughts are mine and mine alone. The quotes are direct from the Daewood translated Koran.
----------------------------
I will be interested in your response.
If the terrorists laid down their arms tomorrow what would happen? Peace?
If Israel lays down there arms tomorrow what would happen to them?
Peace or anhilation?
Regards
niss the attitude you support is unjust and criminal. You should go sign up and fight alongside your countrymen if you feel so strongly about it. Take your nationalism and @#$! yourself.
I don't like terrorists - I don't like countries that don't believe and adhere to international laws - I am disgusted with the position our government has taken over this war - I am disgusted with this war.
Codemn all acts of violence against civilians - on both sides - Do not take a side or be neutral but decry what is wrong.[/quote]
Interesting comments - I would ask you - What would you do if you were in Isreal right now and held the position that allows you to continue or call of the war?
Remember, you have the enemy who has already stated they want you all dead and gone - and they will not negotiate. The United Nations called for their disarmament many years ago - unsuccessfully. You are supported in your attack by several other Arab nations who have publicly stated you DO have the right to defend yourself.
You also need this information:
There will be some information here that some may want to dispute - but I will quote directly from the Koran and provide the reference in event you wish to challenge my input.
Number 6 is very important.
As I have had the opportunity to work with folks who are not from North America I made it a point to search out and try to understand why they think the way they do. I suspect some of this information may startle you.
I also have discovered that to know the enemy is to better understand them and the better to defeat them.
To start it off - Islam is commonly reported to translate into PEACE. My colleagues from Kuwait - Muslim fighter pilots - made sure that I knew this was not true. It translates into SUBMIT. A fact that is seldom if ever broadcast in North America. They used to joke with me - Submit or die.
I often wondered of they were really joking - but they needed my help at the time - so they were not about to lose my knowledge and abilities.
This is because any Imam or Sheik can impose Islamic law according to his desires - there is no universal rule of Islamic law - there is ISLAMIC GOVERNMENT and it can be very regional. A very different way to look at things..
First - Under Islam, rejecting Mohammed and Allah is itself a sin that Islamic government is told to punish:
Sura 3:31:
"Say: 'If you love God, follow me (Mohammed). God will love you and forgive you your sins. God is forgiving and merciful.'"
Sura 5:49:
"Pronounce judgment among them according to God's revelations (Koran) and do not be led by their desires. Take heed lest they turn you away from a part of that which God has revealed to you. If they reject your judgment, know that it is God's wish to scourge them for their sins. A great many of mankind are evil-doers."
Second - Rejecting Islam is itself a sin that can earn you death.
Sura 4:65
"But they will not - I swear by your Lord - they will not be true believers until they seek your arbitration in their disputes. Then they will not doubt the justice of your verdicts and will submit to you entirely."
Third - Good Muslims long for death, and take the Western aversion to death as a sign that we know we are sinners:
Sura 2:94-95
"Say: 'If God's Abode of the Hereafter is for yourselves alone, to the exclusion of all others, then wish for death if your claim be true!' But they will never wish for death, because of what they did; for God knows the evil-doers."
Fourth - CHRISTIANS ARE UNBELIEVERS
Sura 5:72
"Unbelievers are those who say: 'God is the Messiah, the son of Mary.'"
Fifth - MUSLIMS CANNOT TAKE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS AS FRIENDS
NOTE - [i]They can take non-believers as friends provided there is a financial, personal or political advantage to doing so. When the advantage is gone or no longer required, they are to abandon the friendship. It is quite acceptable to kill that one time friend as no sin is committed in the eyes of a true believer.[/i]
Sura 3:28
"Let not believers make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful - he that does this has nothing to hope for from God - except in self-defense. God admonishes you to fear Him: for to God shall all return."
Sixth - SLAYING UNBELIEVERS is specifically commanded, though they can also be made slaves and their property can be confiscated. Non-muslims have no legal rights in Muslim societies. If unbelievers are not killed, they can be made to pay "Jizya," a tax to buy back rights like owning property, working, or going to school.
Sura 2:191:
"Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is more grievous than bloodshed. But do not fight them within the precincts of the Holy Mosque unless they attack you there; if they attack you put them to the sword. thus shall the unbelievers be rewarded: but if they mend their ways (become Muslims), know that God is forgiving and merciful."
To continue:
I will not even enter into the morality issues that are so abhorred by the average Muslim - because I will then be thought of as a religious fanatic, when in fact I am simply a person who studies their beliefs. Suffice to say the average North American who accepts homosexuality, drunkeness, drug using, common-law marriages and so on as a fact of modern day life would have no idea how this disgusts the average Muslim. It truly fans their hatred of us.
Yeah, I know it disgusts a lot of people here - but I do not think we are prepared to kill someone who does these things.
There is much more but it will simply bore most of you - so in closing this is a short summary - there may be American and Canadian born and raised Muslims - or fresh converts - who will disagree. But that is simply because they are a product of the north American society. Most immigrant parents do not - I say again most - not all - do not think of themselves as citizens of this country. They believe that they are part of a religious world community. Citizenship is secondary.
I can even produce Koranic references for that should it become necessary.
They raise their children very differently from the way we raise our children. So the cycle does not change.
They live differently and are quite capable of killing their own women - honour killings - should they suspect she has even had "thoughts" for a non-approved male.
Koran is logical. It says:
1. Unbelievers are those who do not accept Islam, particularly Jews and Christians.
2. Because unbelievers do not accept Islam, Allah hates them and does not guide them.
3. Because Allah does not guide them, unbelievers become evil-doers - they commit additional sins besides rejecting Islam.
4. Muslims will see the sins of unbelievers plainly, both in non-Muslim society and in dealings with non-Muslims.
5. Therefore, Muslims must fight unbelievers both to limit sin and give unbelievers a chance to go to heaven by becoming Muslims.
Therefore no matter how well they are treated they will continue to make war on the unbeliever. It is written that it must be so - and so it will be.
Note this is very non-pc. It is also the belief of the vast majority of moderate Muslims in the world - for they will SUBMIT to Islam and the Imam who will make the laws..
The moderates - when push comes to shove - will back the hard liners.
It is incredibly rare for any Muslim to go against the commands of an Imam.
I recommend one to get a copy (the Koran) and actually read it. It is not blasphemy as a Christain to read up on other religions.
It also would be helpful to understand that the Mulim faith as a whole is still in the 14'th centurey. That allows the various regional religious leaders to maintain control over their people and promote their individual political agendas.
Sharia law is interpreted regionally - so it can vary from place to place. But it is quite impressive to watch a man have his hand or head cut off - sometimes with only hearsay as evidence of wrong doing.
Anyone here who has done one or more tours of duty in the middle east will tell you that life there is VERY different from what we are used to.
My non - pc thoughts are mine and mine alone. The quotes are direct from the Daewood translated Koran.
----------------------------
I will be interested in your response.
If the terrorists laid down their arms tomorrow what would happen? Peace?
If Israel lays down there arms tomorrow what would happen to them?
Peace or anhilation?
Regards
-
highlander
- Rank 4
- Posts: 222
- Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:53 pm
Some general observations:
1) It would seem that no matter what events transpire, the UN never supports Israel because I believe it does not support Israel's right to exist.
2) The attacks on Qana, whether justified, accidental or whatever is a tragedy. IDF and the Israeli Government has apologized (yes this is not enough and may not mean anything). But they did apologize. I know this is not enough!
3) When Hezbollah attacks Israel and kills innocent civilians, do they apologize?
4) When suicide bombers walk into a busy crowded Israeli city and blow themselves up, does anyone apologize. Most likely no, and normally someone proudly claims responsibility.
5) Relating to #4, if this happened in the US, Canada, or anywhere else it makes the front page news. Sadly, this happens far too often in Israel. Does anyone care.
6) I am pro-israel. But I am also pro-peace. Israel has a right to exist in a state of peace as does her surrounding countries in peace.
It would seem we have the same problem in this forum. A whole bunch of name calling, yelling back and forth trying to think of who started this all and coming up with no positive solutions.
1) It would seem that no matter what events transpire, the UN never supports Israel because I believe it does not support Israel's right to exist.
2) The attacks on Qana, whether justified, accidental or whatever is a tragedy. IDF and the Israeli Government has apologized (yes this is not enough and may not mean anything). But they did apologize. I know this is not enough!
3) When Hezbollah attacks Israel and kills innocent civilians, do they apologize?
4) When suicide bombers walk into a busy crowded Israeli city and blow themselves up, does anyone apologize. Most likely no, and normally someone proudly claims responsibility.
5) Relating to #4, if this happened in the US, Canada, or anywhere else it makes the front page news. Sadly, this happens far too often in Israel. Does anyone care.
6) I am pro-israel. But I am also pro-peace. Israel has a right to exist in a state of peace as does her surrounding countries in peace.
It would seem we have the same problem in this forum. A whole bunch of name calling, yelling back and forth trying to think of who started this all and coming up with no positive solutions.
Holy feck!!! Dude... this is the most brilliant post on this topic of the middle east crisis!!!!Hickory Stick wrote:Your both retards! Arguing about stupid shit.
Niss, seriously who cares that your a Jew! Your people are killing their
people, their people are killing your people..in the end your all retarded.
Keep this stupid shit out of Canada! You and the retards that your
fighting can go back to the sand pit and fight it out there. I like the
peace here.
Stop being retarded! No one will win this stupid pissing match, its been
going on for thousands of years. It has not been resolved thus all sides
have proved how RETARDED they are. Corky puts all you guys to
shame.
Cheers
"you're ALL retarded" ... you used that word like 4 times in your post...Brilliant!
The UN shoud let you stand up in the assembly and read your words to all
members representing their countries!!
I love the last line...
That was awesome!!
Last edited by ... on Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
IDF,
[quote]woman and children are forced to stay in the area under the direct threat of death by Hezbollah field commanders.
Sorry, but this doesn't wash with me. If what you're saying is true........hmmm, boy that's a great way to win the hearts and minds of the local population.
[quote]An interesting fact is that Hezbollah used the close proximity of UN posts for rocket launches in order to lure IDF attacks which not being as precise as they should be, led to the deaths of UN personnel.
Do you really think that the IDF doesn't know the precision of their own munitions? If there is doubt as to the precision of a weapon or munition, it is taken into account as part of the damage prediction. These munitions do have errors, but those errors are known from either manufactures spec, field trials, and training. So to say that the weapons are "not as precise as they should be" is well.....not true. The IAF knows exactly how precise their weapons are. As well, do you really think the IDF was "lured"? Sorry, gotta call you on that one. A) The IDF knew exactly where the UN post was. B) The IDF knows the accuracy of it's own weapons. C) The IDF taking A & B into account still fired on Hezbollah while it was in close proximity to the UN post. The IDF knew what the possibilities and risks were in attacking so close to a UN post. Was it a calculated risk? Very. Given the risk-reward ratio I'm not sure if it was the best move. Why risk International condemnation for the sake of taking out 1 target? You tell me.
Just to leave you guys with one thought.....If one is to invade into another country, you look much better in the eyes of all watching, if you advance 5 miles and retreat 4, than to advance 2 and retreat 1.
[quote]woman and children are forced to stay in the area under the direct threat of death by Hezbollah field commanders.
Sorry, but this doesn't wash with me. If what you're saying is true........hmmm, boy that's a great way to win the hearts and minds of the local population.
[quote]An interesting fact is that Hezbollah used the close proximity of UN posts for rocket launches in order to lure IDF attacks which not being as precise as they should be, led to the deaths of UN personnel.
Do you really think that the IDF doesn't know the precision of their own munitions? If there is doubt as to the precision of a weapon or munition, it is taken into account as part of the damage prediction. These munitions do have errors, but those errors are known from either manufactures spec, field trials, and training. So to say that the weapons are "not as precise as they should be" is well.....not true. The IAF knows exactly how precise their weapons are. As well, do you really think the IDF was "lured"? Sorry, gotta call you on that one. A) The IDF knew exactly where the UN post was. B) The IDF knows the accuracy of it's own weapons. C) The IDF taking A & B into account still fired on Hezbollah while it was in close proximity to the UN post. The IDF knew what the possibilities and risks were in attacking so close to a UN post. Was it a calculated risk? Very. Given the risk-reward ratio I'm not sure if it was the best move. Why risk International condemnation for the sake of taking out 1 target? You tell me.
Just to leave you guys with one thought.....If one is to invade into another country, you look much better in the eyes of all watching, if you advance 5 miles and retreat 4, than to advance 2 and retreat 1.
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niss
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http://camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2 ... ticle=1160As well, do you really think the IDF was "lured"? Sorry, gotta call you on that one. A) The IDF knew exactly where the UN post was. B) The IDF knows the accuracy of it's own weapons. C) The IDF taking A & B into account still fired on Hezbollah while it was in close proximity to the UN post. The IDF knew what the possibilities and risks were in attacking so close to a UN post. Was it a calculated risk? Very. Given the risk-reward ratio I'm not sure if it was the best move. Why risk International condemnation for the sake of taking out 1 target? You tell me.
BigB, who knows more you or the dead canadian from the UN post?
She’s built like a Steakhouse, but she handles like a Bistro.
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
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Jet Dog
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According to the Talmud, the jewish holy book, sounds like it's a source of non-fiction propaganda, evil, vile, racist, crap that these ppl strongly believe and follow, (actual passages with references from talmud) read and ponder......
Erubin 21b: Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.
Moed Kattan 17a : If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.
Baba Mezia 114a-114b. Non-Jews are Not Human. Only Jews are human ("Only ye are designated men"). Also see Kerithoth 6b under the sub-head, "Oil of Anointing" and Berakoth 58a in which Gentile women are designated animals ("she-asses").
Sanhedrin 58b: Jews are Divine. If a heathen (Gentile) hits a Jew, THE GENTILE MUST BE KILLED. Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God.
Sanhedrin 57a: O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews. A Jew need not pay a Christian ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.
Baba Kamma 37b: Jews Have Superior Legal Status. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."
Baba Mezia 24a: Jews May Steal from Non-Jews. If a Jew finds an object lost by a Gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b).
Sanhedrin 57a: JEWS MAY ROB AND KILL NON-JEWS. When a Jew murders a Christian ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a Gentile he may keep.
Baba Kamma 113a: Jews May Lie to Non-Jews . JEWS MAY USE LIES ("subterfuges") TO CIRCUMVENT A GENTILE.
Yebamoth 98a: Non-Jewish Children Sub-Human. All Gentile children are animals.
Abodah Zarah 36b: Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.
Abodah Zarah 22a-22b: Gentiles prefer sex with cows.
Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus' mother was a whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in Shabbath 104b it is stated in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud that Jesus' mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.
Rosh Hashanah 17a . Christians ("minim") and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.
Shabbath 116a (p. 569). Jews must destroy the books of the Christians. Israel Shahak reports that the Zionists burned hundreds of New Testament books in Occupied Palestine on March 23, 1980
Shabbath 41a. The law regulating the rule for how to urinate in a holy way is Yebamoth 63a. States that Adam had sexual intercourse with all the animals in the Garden of Eden.
Sanhedrin 55b . A Jew may marry a three year old girl. (specifically, three years "and a day" old).
Sanhedrin 54b . A Jew may have sex with a child as long as that child is over nine years old.
Kethuboth 11b . When a older man has intercourse with a girl it is nothing because her virginity will grow back.
Yebamoth 59b . A woman who had intercourse with a beast is eligible to marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with a demon is also eligible to marry a Jewish priest.
Abodah Zarah 17a. States that there is not a whore in the world that Rabbi Eleazar has not had sex with.
Hagigah 27a . States that no rabbi can ever go to hell.
Menahoth 43b-44a . A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day: Thank you God for not making me a Gentile, a woman or a slave.
Gittin 57b . Claims that four billion Jews were killed by the Romans in the city of Bethar. Gittin 58a claims that 16 million Jewish children were wrapped in scrolls and burned alive by the Romans. (Ancient demography indicates that there were not 16 million Jews in the entire world at that time, much less 16 million Jewish children or four billion Jews).
Soferim 15, Rule 10. This is the saying of Rabbi Simon ben Yohai: Tob shebe goyyim harog ("Even the best of the Gentiles should all be killed"). This passage is not from the Soncino edition but is from the original Hebrew of the Babylonian Talmud as quoted by the 1907 Jewish Encyclopedia, published by Funk and Wagnalls and compiled by Isidore Singer, under the entry, "Gentile," (p. 617).
On Purim, Feb. 25, 1994, Israeli army officer Baruch Goldstein, an orthodox Jew from Brooklyn, massacred 40 Palestinian civilians, including children, while they knelt in prayer in a mosque. Goldstein was a disciple of the late Rabbi Kahane who has stated that his view of Arabs as "dogs" is "from the Talmud." (Cf. CBS "60 Minutes", "Kahane").
Univ. of Jerusalem Prof. Ehud Sprinzak described Kahane and Goldsteins philosophy: "They believe it's God's will that they commit violence against "goyim," a Hebrew term for non-Jews." (NY Daily News, Feb. 26, 1994, p. 5).
Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg declared, "We have to recognize that Jewish blood and the blood of a goy are not the same thing." (NY Times, June 6, 1989, p.5).
Rabbi Yaacov Perrin says, "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." (NY Daily News, Feb. 28, 1994, p.6).
Erubin 21b: Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.
Moed Kattan 17a : If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.
Baba Mezia 114a-114b. Non-Jews are Not Human. Only Jews are human ("Only ye are designated men"). Also see Kerithoth 6b under the sub-head, "Oil of Anointing" and Berakoth 58a in which Gentile women are designated animals ("she-asses").
Sanhedrin 58b: Jews are Divine. If a heathen (Gentile) hits a Jew, THE GENTILE MUST BE KILLED. Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God.
Sanhedrin 57a: O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews. A Jew need not pay a Christian ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.
Baba Kamma 37b: Jews Have Superior Legal Status. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."
Baba Mezia 24a: Jews May Steal from Non-Jews. If a Jew finds an object lost by a Gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b).
Sanhedrin 57a: JEWS MAY ROB AND KILL NON-JEWS. When a Jew murders a Christian ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a Gentile he may keep.
Baba Kamma 113a: Jews May Lie to Non-Jews . JEWS MAY USE LIES ("subterfuges") TO CIRCUMVENT A GENTILE.
Yebamoth 98a: Non-Jewish Children Sub-Human. All Gentile children are animals.
Abodah Zarah 36b: Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.
Abodah Zarah 22a-22b: Gentiles prefer sex with cows.
Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus' mother was a whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in Shabbath 104b it is stated in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud that Jesus' mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.
Rosh Hashanah 17a . Christians ("minim") and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.
Shabbath 116a (p. 569). Jews must destroy the books of the Christians. Israel Shahak reports that the Zionists burned hundreds of New Testament books in Occupied Palestine on March 23, 1980
Shabbath 41a. The law regulating the rule for how to urinate in a holy way is Yebamoth 63a. States that Adam had sexual intercourse with all the animals in the Garden of Eden.
Sanhedrin 55b . A Jew may marry a three year old girl. (specifically, three years "and a day" old).
Sanhedrin 54b . A Jew may have sex with a child as long as that child is over nine years old.
Kethuboth 11b . When a older man has intercourse with a girl it is nothing because her virginity will grow back.
Yebamoth 59b . A woman who had intercourse with a beast is eligible to marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with a demon is also eligible to marry a Jewish priest.
Abodah Zarah 17a. States that there is not a whore in the world that Rabbi Eleazar has not had sex with.
Hagigah 27a . States that no rabbi can ever go to hell.
Menahoth 43b-44a . A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day: Thank you God for not making me a Gentile, a woman or a slave.
Gittin 57b . Claims that four billion Jews were killed by the Romans in the city of Bethar. Gittin 58a claims that 16 million Jewish children were wrapped in scrolls and burned alive by the Romans. (Ancient demography indicates that there were not 16 million Jews in the entire world at that time, much less 16 million Jewish children or four billion Jews).
Soferim 15, Rule 10. This is the saying of Rabbi Simon ben Yohai: Tob shebe goyyim harog ("Even the best of the Gentiles should all be killed"). This passage is not from the Soncino edition but is from the original Hebrew of the Babylonian Talmud as quoted by the 1907 Jewish Encyclopedia, published by Funk and Wagnalls and compiled by Isidore Singer, under the entry, "Gentile," (p. 617).
On Purim, Feb. 25, 1994, Israeli army officer Baruch Goldstein, an orthodox Jew from Brooklyn, massacred 40 Palestinian civilians, including children, while they knelt in prayer in a mosque. Goldstein was a disciple of the late Rabbi Kahane who has stated that his view of Arabs as "dogs" is "from the Talmud." (Cf. CBS "60 Minutes", "Kahane").
Univ. of Jerusalem Prof. Ehud Sprinzak described Kahane and Goldsteins philosophy: "They believe it's God's will that they commit violence against "goyim," a Hebrew term for non-Jews." (NY Daily News, Feb. 26, 1994, p. 5).
Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg declared, "We have to recognize that Jewish blood and the blood of a goy are not the same thing." (NY Times, June 6, 1989, p.5).
Rabbi Yaacov Perrin says, "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." (NY Daily News, Feb. 28, 1994, p.6).
Last edited by Jet Dog on Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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niss
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Cite your source.According to the Talmud, the jewish holy book, sounds like it's a source of non-fiction propaganda, evil, vile, racist, crap that these ppl strongly believe and follow, (actual passages with references from talmud) read and ponder......
Erubin 21b: Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.
Moed Kattan 17a : If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.
Baba Mezia 114a-114b. Non-Jews are Not Human. Only Jews are human ("Only ye are designated men"). Also see Kerithoth 6b under the sub-head, "Oil of Anointing" and Berakoth 58a in which Gentile women are designated animals ("she-asses").
Sanhedrin 58b: Jews are Divine. If a heathen (Gentile) hits a Jew, THE GENTILE MUST BE KILLED. Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God.
Sanhedrin 57a: O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews. A Jew need not pay a Christian ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.
Baba Kamma 37b: Jews Have Superior Legal Status. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."
Baba Mezia 24a: Jews May Steal from Non-Jews. If a Jew finds an object lost by a Gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b).
Sanhedrin 57a: JEWS MAY ROB AND KILL NON-JEWS. When a Jew murders a Christian ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a Gentile he may keep.
Baba Kamma 113a: Jews May Lie to Non-Jews . JEWS MAY USE LIES ("subterfuges") TO CIRCUMVENT A GENTILE.
Yebamoth 98a: Non-Jewish Children Sub-Human. All Gentile children are animals.
Abodah Zarah 36b: Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.
Abodah Zarah 22a-22b: Gentiles prefer sex with cows.
Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus' mother was a whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in Shabbath 104b it is stated in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud that Jesus' mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.
Rosh Hashanah 17a . Christians ("minim") and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.
Shabbath 116a (p. 569). Jews must destroy the books of the Christians. Israel Shahak reports that the Zionists burned hundreds of New Testament books in Occupied Palestine on March 23, 1980
Shabbath 41a. The law regulating the rule for how to urinate in a holy way is Yebamoth 63a. States that Adam had sexual intercourse with all the animals in the Garden of Eden.
Sanhedrin 55b . A Jew may marry a three year old girl. (specifically, three years "and a day" old).
Sanhedrin 54b . A Jew may have sex with a child as long as that child is over nine years old.
Kethuboth 11b . When a older man has intercourse with a girl it is nothing because her virginity will grow back.
Yebamoth 59b . A woman who had intercourse with a beast is eligible to marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with a demon is also eligible to marry a Jewish priest.
Abodah Zarah 17a. States that there is not a whore in the world that Rabbi Eleazar has not had sex with.
Hagigah 27a . States that no rabbi can ever go to hell.
Menahoth 43b-44a . A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day: Thank you God for not making me a Gentile, a woman or a slave.
I googled this quote:
Take note as to the kind of sites this quote appears on and what the writers have put, it dosnt seem like many people are going through and writing based on well versed and well articulated fact.Rosh Hashanah 17a . Christians ("minim") and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=Ros ... arch&meta=Talmud quotesRosh Hashanah 17a . Christians ("minim") and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations. Shabbath 116a (p. 569). ...
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The Talmud by M. HoffmanRosh Hashanah 17a (pp. 64-65). Christians ("minim") and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations (see footnote ...
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BigB my point was that even the Major acknowleged that it was Hezbollah who were instigating it knowing damn well Israel would fire back. He nowhere blames the Hezbollah, infact he has complained in the past about the Hezbollah firing near their position. That is my point.
She’s built like a Steakhouse, but she handles like a Bistro.
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
Niss,
Nowhere in my previous post did I contradict what the CF Maj OR Gen MacKenzie stated. The IDF was not intentionally targeting the UN post, that is a given. However, the IDF weighed the reward of taking out the Hezbollah fighters, against the risk of hitting the UN post. The IDF knew the risks, and chose to continue the attack. In doing so, the IDF is saying to the world that not even the risk of killing UN observers is worth the reward of taking out a target. It is now the optics of this incident that the IDF must face.
Nowhere in my previous post did I contradict what the CF Maj OR Gen MacKenzie stated. The IDF was not intentionally targeting the UN post, that is a given. However, the IDF weighed the reward of taking out the Hezbollah fighters, against the risk of hitting the UN post. The IDF knew the risks, and chose to continue the attack. In doing so, the IDF is saying to the world that not even the risk of killing UN observers is worth the reward of taking out a target. It is now the optics of this incident that the IDF must face.
Its very unfortunate what is going on over there, hopefully this 48hr cease fire will help the situation towards a peacefull ending.
That being said, I believe Israel has a right to completely defend itself from being attacked.
The person who said the Israeli soldiers who where kidnapped where in Lebanon, thats wrong. They where on the israeli side of the border when they came under fire. They returned, got captured, israeli soldeirs then proceeded to chase them, and a israeli tank was destroyed on the Lebanon side.
As for the "massacre." Its a horrible situation, Israel should look at how they are targeting. But, once again that being said. How many times have we seen Hezbolla/Hamas/etc. pictures with 12 year olds training and fighting with AK47's. Hezbolla doesn't wear a uniform, so anyone in the south could be a hezbolla fighter. Just because when they died they didn't have a weapon on them they are still an Armed Combatant, if at some point they did carry a weapon and fight for hezbolla, not a civilian. I definately think unfortunately some civilians have been killed. But some of the numbers they have given out i'm sure have Armed Combatants in there that didn't have a weapon at the time, or did but they where taken away to be called Civilians. Sorry but a 12-20-30-40-even 10 year old with a weapon shooting at the israelis has become an armed combatant and if they are killed then they are NOT a civilian.
I'm definately not saying that no civilians have been killed. But lets look at some facts
1) Hezbolla attacked Israel
2) Lebonese government never came outright and condemed or tried to stop hezbolla from attacking or further attacking Israel
3) Israel attacked in defense, currently holds some land in lebanon but has come out and said they would prefer if a UN Coalition would occupy the buffer zone, and not them.
Those towns where told about the upcomming bombing, and Qana has been a Hezbolla stonghold for many years. It wouldn't surprise me that most of those "Civilians" killed where out in support of Hezbolla before all this started chanting and fighting for the Hezbolla cause of the destruction of Israel. But that being said, any time childrens lifes are lost in a war it is just a horrible thing.
Everytime i see these Anti-Israeli remarks never does it come with a even more pronounced Anti-Hezbolla remark. Especially considering Hezbolla started this whole thing. 1/3 of Israel's populations have bomb shelters, why, because of terrorist organizations like Hezbolla and Hamas. If they didn't exist then Israeli's wouldn't have to have bomb shelters, and Lebonese/Palistinian civilians wouldn't have to worry about Israeli attacks in defense to aggression from Hamas/Hezbolla.
Its a sick and sad situation that needs to be resolved for the long term and not just the short term. Instead of sitting there and condemning everything Israel does, why don't you tell us what they should do. Should they just sit there, let themselves get attacked and do nothing? Unfortunately that is not gonna solve anything, other than cost Israeli lives.
Sorry for the long rant, just my 2 cents.
Ohya and BMC you need to first check where you get your quotes. So far the ones you've posted have been proven false and nothing more than propaganda, so basically you are just spreading hate remarks.
That being said, I believe Israel has a right to completely defend itself from being attacked.
The person who said the Israeli soldiers who where kidnapped where in Lebanon, thats wrong. They where on the israeli side of the border when they came under fire. They returned, got captured, israeli soldeirs then proceeded to chase them, and a israeli tank was destroyed on the Lebanon side.
As for the "massacre." Its a horrible situation, Israel should look at how they are targeting. But, once again that being said. How many times have we seen Hezbolla/Hamas/etc. pictures with 12 year olds training and fighting with AK47's. Hezbolla doesn't wear a uniform, so anyone in the south could be a hezbolla fighter. Just because when they died they didn't have a weapon on them they are still an Armed Combatant, if at some point they did carry a weapon and fight for hezbolla, not a civilian. I definately think unfortunately some civilians have been killed. But some of the numbers they have given out i'm sure have Armed Combatants in there that didn't have a weapon at the time, or did but they where taken away to be called Civilians. Sorry but a 12-20-30-40-even 10 year old with a weapon shooting at the israelis has become an armed combatant and if they are killed then they are NOT a civilian.
I'm definately not saying that no civilians have been killed. But lets look at some facts
1) Hezbolla attacked Israel
2) Lebonese government never came outright and condemed or tried to stop hezbolla from attacking or further attacking Israel
3) Israel attacked in defense, currently holds some land in lebanon but has come out and said they would prefer if a UN Coalition would occupy the buffer zone, and not them.
Those towns where told about the upcomming bombing, and Qana has been a Hezbolla stonghold for many years. It wouldn't surprise me that most of those "Civilians" killed where out in support of Hezbolla before all this started chanting and fighting for the Hezbolla cause of the destruction of Israel. But that being said, any time childrens lifes are lost in a war it is just a horrible thing.
Everytime i see these Anti-Israeli remarks never does it come with a even more pronounced Anti-Hezbolla remark. Especially considering Hezbolla started this whole thing. 1/3 of Israel's populations have bomb shelters, why, because of terrorist organizations like Hezbolla and Hamas. If they didn't exist then Israeli's wouldn't have to have bomb shelters, and Lebonese/Palistinian civilians wouldn't have to worry about Israeli attacks in defense to aggression from Hamas/Hezbolla.
Its a sick and sad situation that needs to be resolved for the long term and not just the short term. Instead of sitting there and condemning everything Israel does, why don't you tell us what they should do. Should they just sit there, let themselves get attacked and do nothing? Unfortunately that is not gonna solve anything, other than cost Israeli lives.
Sorry for the long rant, just my 2 cents.
Ohya and BMC you need to first check where you get your quotes. So far the ones you've posted have been proven false and nothing more than propaganda, so basically you are just spreading hate remarks.
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mellow_pilot
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- Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:04 am
- Location: Pilot Purgatory
This crap about quoting various religions books in support of an argument has to stop.
All religions are subject to interpretation and abuse. Thus they are all dangerous and, like hate mongering, should be illegal.
Sorry to all of you who are religious, but it's not worth the risk in my opinion. There are few redeeming qualities to any religion, none of which cannot be found in other mediums.
I'm sick of seeing all the quotes from various texts. They serve no purpose other than to incite further discord and spread hate.
I do know several benign worshippers, people who do not fall into the politicized extremes of thier religion. I respect thier faith and their beliefs. I also respect the fortitude it takes to remain moderate and secular in political, legal, and moral arenas. I truly feel bad that their devotion is tainted by the words and acts of others, but in the same way that assault rifles are not necessary among a civilian population, religion is dangerous and unnecessary. Religion is the opiate of the masses, and those with the intelegence to see past rhetoric and truly seek the best of qualities in a faith are too few.
I too am capable of finding and posting the hateful words and interpretations of religious extremists, I do not believe, however, that it is an ethical and legitimate form of argument. This thread has made it evident to me that there is nothing to be gained by it.
Reading a book doesn't get into the mind of another reader of the same book. Just reading 'Mine Kampf' does not make me a Nazi. Nor does reading the bible, or even going to church as a child make me a Christian.
I find organized religion to be distasteful in all the forms I have experienced. It removes personal accountability and individual thought. Participants need not think and evaluate evidence for themselves, but simply toe the party line.
Flame away. (Again, sorry to anyone this offends, just my opinion. You're all more than welcome to disagree.)
All religions are subject to interpretation and abuse. Thus they are all dangerous and, like hate mongering, should be illegal.
Sorry to all of you who are religious, but it's not worth the risk in my opinion. There are few redeeming qualities to any religion, none of which cannot be found in other mediums.
I'm sick of seeing all the quotes from various texts. They serve no purpose other than to incite further discord and spread hate.
I do know several benign worshippers, people who do not fall into the politicized extremes of thier religion. I respect thier faith and their beliefs. I also respect the fortitude it takes to remain moderate and secular in political, legal, and moral arenas. I truly feel bad that their devotion is tainted by the words and acts of others, but in the same way that assault rifles are not necessary among a civilian population, religion is dangerous and unnecessary. Religion is the opiate of the masses, and those with the intelegence to see past rhetoric and truly seek the best of qualities in a faith are too few.
I too am capable of finding and posting the hateful words and interpretations of religious extremists, I do not believe, however, that it is an ethical and legitimate form of argument. This thread has made it evident to me that there is nothing to be gained by it.
Reading a book doesn't get into the mind of another reader of the same book. Just reading 'Mine Kampf' does not make me a Nazi. Nor does reading the bible, or even going to church as a child make me a Christian.
I find organized religion to be distasteful in all the forms I have experienced. It removes personal accountability and individual thought. Participants need not think and evaluate evidence for themselves, but simply toe the party line.
Flame away. (Again, sorry to anyone this offends, just my opinion. You're all more than welcome to disagree.)
Dyslexics of the world... UNTIE!
rd1331 wrote:1) Hezbolla attacked Israel
2) Lebonese government never came outright and condemed or tried to stop hezbolla from attacking or further attacking Israel
3) Israel attacked in defense, currently holds some land in lebanon but has come out and said they would prefer if a UN Coalition would occupy the buffer zone, and not them.
1) israel has been attacking Lebanon since 1982
2) the israeli government doesn't seem to be changing their views on attacking others.
3) hezballa retaliated in defence, currently holds two israeli soldiers, in order to swap them for the prisoners in israeli jails.
You get my drift?
So break free from this mentality
good luck
p.s. attacked in defense?
Israel withdrew from Lebanon, and hasn't attacked them since in agression. Hezballa attacked Israel and Israel attacked back. So yes it is in defense.
Or was Hezballa attacking israel in defense for an attack israel did 25 frigin years ago.
Give you head a shake. Aren't you the same person who said the Israeli's where on the Lebanon side when attacked, maybe you should look at where you get your facts from, they where on the Israeli side of the border when initially attacked.
There was peace between Israel and Lebanon until Hezballa decided to stop that peace and attack Israeli troups on Israeli soil, so yes Israel is acting in defense.
Or was Hezballa attacking israel in defense for an attack israel did 25 frigin years ago.
Give you head a shake. Aren't you the same person who said the Israeli's where on the Lebanon side when attacked, maybe you should look at where you get your facts from, they where on the Israeli side of the border when initially attacked.
There was peace between Israel and Lebanon until Hezballa decided to stop that peace and attack Israeli troups on Israeli soil, so yes Israel is acting in defense.
