Who started this crap??

[Disco Stu]

Someone should ask Wasaya and NAC pilots their reasons for calling final, down and clear, backtracking, etc. on 126.7.

You want to talk about unnecessary radio calls......................

[nimbostratus]

Sounds to me like the real problem here is radio congestion. How long will this go on before Nav Canada decides to add a few more frequencies?

They don't use 126.7 in the States as we do. (It's just another airport frequency). They have Hiwas stations that have different frequencies depending on where you are and what altitude you're at.

Ever tried monitoring 126.7 from above FL350? You hear calls from friggin nowhere airports in Manitoba from over Vancouver island. Worse yet, they can't hear FSS giving you that metar you need for an approach and they talk over it. So you get to have FSS repeat that metar once more and it gets blocked by some C-152 on left downwind in Kindersley Sask. Ok Ok just once more with the metar Pacific Radio... I swear I'll hear it this time... sheesh.

What would it take to seperate at least the high and low traffic with seperate frequencies. (This would also allow you bush guys in the arctic to effectively tune out all those transatlantic aircraft position reports).

This country is a wee bit too big to have only the one frequency.

My 4 1/2 cents.

Nimbo

[Character]

El Comat I completely agree with your assessment. The "conflicts please advise" add on is a completely unnecessary radio call. Suffice to say if someone hears the call they will reply if a conflict exists. For those that fly on the west side of North Western Ontario on a consistent basis there are a flury of non essential radio "add ons" at the end of and during transmissions. The ultimate goal on the radio should be to state in the simplest of terms all of the essential information and eliminate all unnecessary banter to as to relieve frequency congestion. Due to all of this additional non essential info people often find themselves transmitting over each other and in the end that is detrimental to the purpose of the radio and ones ability to advise someone of a conflict in the first place.

[ODDERGUY]

El Combat, your a dork!!!! Get some real world experience and see that sometimes it is nessasary to make a radio call as such and sometimes it is not. It is all discretion, If there is to much radio traffic then get to the point. But I know from when I worked on fires those many years ago that you ussually have four VHF freq. on the go and two FM freq. so to advise the freq. is quite nessasary, and what the f--- do you know about perimeters SOP's keep your little mouth shut about other operators thats the kind of thing that gets your faggot ass kicked in the Bars.

Peace Out

[learcapt]

you have way too much time on your hands, get a life dude. nothing wrong with that type of radio call.

[niss]

I agree that all that extra stuff at the end can get quite annoying in a high traffic area....IDF you would know just as well as I that it can be a bitch getting a word in edgwise at Collingwood on a beautiful saturday noonish when they were still on 128.5. We were competing with guelf, killarny, lake st. john, everyone! God knows how many a/c landed with out giving advisories because there was no gap in the coms big enough, i know I came close..... Its alot better now that they switched to 128.55 but you get the drift. I wont pull my hair out when I hear any conflict please advise....it dosnt bother me that much, but in alot of these high chatter areas the shorter the TX the better.

[IDF]

Niss,

Both Collingwood and Midland are now on 122.85 and not 128.55 as mentioned.

This change has considerably lessened the congestion previously experienced.

[niss]

Whoops......brain fart

[lilfssister]

Can't remember where I saw it, and haven't found it searching the NC site, but new freqs are coming to an airspace near you. (maybe were enroutes tho? Seems to me 126.7 was mentioned as NOT going to be an FSS RCO freq anymore?)

[sprucemonkey]

Someone should ask Wasaya and NAC pilots their reasons for calling final, down and clear, backtracking, etc. on 126.7.

You want to talk about unnecessary radio calls......................

Because "perimeters" are known to be on 122.80 instead of the proper MF, 123.20 in some locations! Nothing like having a dart darting right in front of you as you're touching down.

[MRO]

talk about sweating the small stuff

[bob sacamano]

Back in the day, most of U.S. airports were controlled. Not too long ago, many of them became un-controlled, which coincided with the boom in regional airlines. These guys/girls weren't used to this un-controlled business, so we got this "conflicting traffic please advise".

Et voila.

p.s. conflicting traffic please advise

[medicineman]

Continue stating "conflicts advise.....". it surely doesnt hurt

[sprucemonkey]

And dont forget 'please'.

[RFN]

You don't have to blurt out the calls as quick as possible to sound cool; you just have no reason to add crap to the call that isn't important.
"Conflicting traffic please advise" is a shorter version of (on 126.7), "how's the wife? who ya flying with? what is your favorite colour?" etc. Something that is not required, and therefore decoration.
In my humble opinion, there is no template for the calls that we make. Sometimes they can be quick, sometimes they need a bit more detail, depending on who's out and about. There is no hard and fast rule, and (again in my humble opinion) pilots should be pretty good at figuring out what's important, and what's fluff. "Conflicts please advise etc." is fluff.

Nimbostratus: Are there not "discreet" freqs that you can use eg. 122.5, out of YWG or YEG etc. to pick up that weather? I don't venture as high up as you do (nosebleeds, and compressor stalls) but that might be easier, and with much less interruptions. For us down low, those calls for weather end up blocking many calls at once, and make it quite difficult when we are in tight to a busy, uncontrolled airport.

[Raybanman]

"FABC is a twin otter 20 north of buckfutt through 5.5 for runway 69 in 8 minutes. ABC 22.8"

8 seconds to say that. Its usually what I do. Go anywhere and if your coming down from "upstairs" you can hear everyone and thier dog. It doesn't change anywhere else

Cheers,
PP

[bush pilot]

Say it don't say it what ever, that no longer bugs me anymore however what drives me up the wall is anyone who goes on 126.70 and ask's for wx from your local FSS when there is a perfectly good descreet freq. I just heard a guy at FL 360 ask for wx on Timmins Radio through Moosenee and ask for wx while it was IFR to mins and Timmins gave it to him! What the $^$^& if you have time to look up that freq scroll down a couple a lines and look up a desc. Freq.

[Elessar_44]

I figured I'd get a reply like that, but coming from someone in YKF I don't think you really understand how crowded the radio really is up here. Imagine hearing traffic calls for 25 different airports all within radio range as you're trying to squeeze in a call coming out of the flight levels. Especially on the "west side" of NW ON, where you get to hear most of the MB traffic as well. Putting the whole "any conflicting" tag on roughly doubles the length of a properly made radio call.

EC

Hey, not sayin I disagree with you just that I think you need to take 'er down a notch! Your blood pressure will thank you

And for the record, I agree with your feelings on unnecessary radio add-ons. Right now is high time for the Cadets at YKF, and ohhhh boy do these cadets like to talk. They read back *EVERYTHING* said to them from gnd/twr. "Roger, cross runway 32 contact tower 126.0 when ready to go Alfa Bravo Charly". Come on, you are VFR, all you need is "Roger ABC". Some of their instructors need to tell them to zip it a little more.

I am not perfect by any means on the radio, in fact I have done the "any conflict" thing in the past, but some people just love the sound of their own voice (or maybe the thought that others are hearing their voice)

[snaproll20]

This is all old-hat.
The system is f*&^%^&*&& and so are the pilots in it.

[ski_bum]

I like to throw the "any conficts please advise" in there just to turn my captian's crank, RFN...

[RFN]

What?! They made RFN a Captain?

[BlueSkies12]

Just a heads up, if you're going to bluff about sleeping with someone's wife. Make sure she's NOT in a coma. Made that mistake once or twice.

[AV8OR]

Are position reports with the words "...at 4.5" a wise thing to say for altitude or should it be the full "...at four thousand, five hundred". I was told back in the day that it can confuse distance with altitude. Maybe this too is too much chatter.

[Shady McSly]

you have way too much time on your hands, get a life dude. nothing wrong with that type of radio call.

You know how I know you're gay?

[BankAngle1987]

Well as a student from Confederation college (apparently the radio- call "thorn" in everyone's side) I can vouch for the fact that there is a considerable amount of unnecessary radio chatter up here. You are correct in your comment, El Comat, that we are taught a certain way, however the majority of students here, as they mature in experience, find a way to expedite the radio call process. Since they are being told by individuals like you that the "cool" thing to do is talk fast and use shortcuts on the radio, they miss vital information, and end up clogging more frequency time just trying to clarify.

I think that for the majority of the time, my frustration originates from too many position reports right after each other. Since all our students tend to go on the same cross country trips at once, and they usually are spaced fairly close, you end up with 5 reports in a row. Perhaps a more effective solution would be to simply do a position report for the lead aircraft and several others behind. Something to the effect of "Cessna 172 GABC is XXmiles west of XX at XXXXfeet, expecting Nipigon in 15 with company traffic 5 miles behind..." would suffice. But of course, since it's so darn cool to hear yourself on the radio this will probably never happen!

My old instructor once told me that the "conflicting traffic" line was just plain lazy. It speaks to the effect of "I'm too lazy to look for you, so you look for me instead". While I agree that it could be interpreted like this, the argument that "Conflicting traffic" and a repeated callsign are effective for grabbing attention is a valid one. I can speak from personal experience and say that after a 5 hour flight from Winnipeg, I don't always catch the callsign of the other aircraft on the first try, and repetition avoids things like "Hey...other aircraft..um..the Cessna..something..where are you?"

The thing to avoid here gents is not speed or word usage, it is redundancy. Students at my college are learning that a position report should be made only when necessary and not every 15 minutes. Stopping this unnecessary reporting, not screwing with a perfectly acceptable radio call format, is the way to unclog the airwaves.