Toronto Airways.
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, Right Seat Captain, lilfssister, North Shore
Wasn't what's the name of the school you work for? Freelancing you might be able to squeeze that much money but I doubt very much a flight school pays you that per hour and if they do consider yourself very lucky. It's definitely not the norm for a school to pay that kind of coin.
Putting money into aviation is like wiping before you poop....it just don't make sense!
N2 don't get upset I do make about $50.00 per hour I work on contract basis with 2 schools in Ontario as well as free lance. I prefer to call it Independant instructor but I cann't spell it. I've been doinf this for a long time and with a class one ATPL plus a lot of 0000 in my log book I get to charge. It also pays to have a good success rate and I;m not looking for any customers right now. Usually I get invited to teach at the school depending on the requirment and I am working right now.
I wish I could spell
Don't worry yourself I am not upset you make that kind of coin in fact more power to you for doing so. My point was that no flight school I know of pays an on staff (permanent employee) class one $40.00 per hour. As you said you contract to them so that makes a difference right there. Sorry if you misunderstood the direction I was taking.
It's the same in the IT business. I might be paid X number of dollars being a permanent employee but I can make double the hourly rate contracting. That being said just because I make X number of dollars working for "the man" doesn't mean I am under paid as was implied by your statement in regards to class one instructor in the original post when I suggested that most of the class ones I know make about $24.00 per hour working at a flight school.
Contracting positions always do pay more due to the fact the company contracting you has no responsibility towards you. ie No workman’s comp, no taxes, no benefits etc. The down side to contract working is they can fire you out the door any time they feel like it.
Again more power to you for making $50+ per hour but that is certainly not the norm for most class ones working in a flight school environment.
It's the same in the IT business. I might be paid X number of dollars being a permanent employee but I can make double the hourly rate contracting. That being said just because I make X number of dollars working for "the man" doesn't mean I am under paid as was implied by your statement in regards to class one instructor in the original post when I suggested that most of the class ones I know make about $24.00 per hour working at a flight school.
Contracting positions always do pay more due to the fact the company contracting you has no responsibility towards you. ie No workman’s comp, no taxes, no benefits etc. The down side to contract working is they can fire you out the door any time they feel like it.
Again more power to you for making $50+ per hour but that is certainly not the norm for most class ones working in a flight school environment.
Putting money into aviation is like wiping before you poop....it just don't make sense!
-
I'd Rather Be Flying
- Rank 3
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:24 am
- Location: This island earth.
Where ? Names please! $35.00 per hour for a class 3, come on! I checked with couple of flight schools in the Toronto area and they told me a class 3 is about 18 per hour on average and a class 2 low twenties. So if anyone can supply me with names through a PM of places that pay this kind of coin (35 for a class 3 and 50 for a class 1) I sure would appreciate it.
Putting money into aviation is like wiping before you poop....it just don't make sense!
-
I'd Rather Be Flying
- Rank 3
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:24 am
- Location: This island earth.
Well if there are companies out there that pay their instructors that well my hat is off to them. For the instructors working for them, more power to you for making some good coin. Personally I haven't found any that pay this kind of money but who knows maybe one day I will.
The up side to paying an instructor well is that it just might entice them into instructing as a career, which benefits the student in the long run. A happier instructor and more time spent instructing translates into better instruction.
The up side to paying an instructor well is that it just might entice them into instructing as a career, which benefits the student in the long run. A happier instructor and more time spent instructing translates into better instruction.
Putting money into aviation is like wiping before you poop....it just don't make sense!
A better instructor will probably take fewer hours to teach a student to a given skill level, so it often ends up costing the same. Generally, at the end, the student's knowledge will be greater with the better instructor, too.
Too many underpaid instructors "milk" their students which ends up costing incredible amounts of money, because of the additional aircraft rental costs.
Customers who chose the cheapest instruction are often penny wise and pound foolish, and frankly deserve to be milked.
Too many underpaid instructors "milk" their students which ends up costing incredible amounts of money, because of the additional aircraft rental costs.
Customers who chose the cheapest instruction are often penny wise and pound foolish, and frankly deserve to be milked.
-
dont_snag_it
- Rank 1
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 6:46 pm
TAL is a good choice...2 non-prec apps right at the airport. You can do a hold and 2 apps in 0.8 hobbs. Both Pa44180's have HSI/RMI. Nice long/wide runways. One has new paint and interior. Right off the 404, free parking, no ferry. The twin teachers are really nice and know their stuff. $225 + $50/hr and you can rent them solo.
I used to work for TAL and did Multi VFR/IFR training there. Its a good school but you have to be careful that the instuctor is not taking you for a ride! (instructors are always trying to build multi time) Talk to the instructors there that deal with the multi training there and ask how long it usually takes to get the rating. Im a firm believer that it shouldn't take more then 10 hours including the ride and i have had people that have done it in 5 hours. The seminole is a very easy plane to fly so if you can fly a single you can fly it.. Just more checklists and another engine to deal with. Thats all. (it still will not fly on one engine only at -30 
Another tip anywhere you go is to do it quick.. don't wait a long time between flights. The instuctor will be trying to review everything you did the last flight if you wait to long between flights.
As for people around at cykz promising jobs and bigger and better things if you get time on a pa30... its a scam.. i know people that flew it and paid the money..
PM me if you want i could give you names of some people that are good there that are lifetime instructors that won't screw you..
Another tip anywhere you go is to do it quick.. don't wait a long time between flights. The instuctor will be trying to review everything you did the last flight if you wait to long between flights.
As for people around at cykz promising jobs and bigger and better things if you get time on a pa30... its a scam.. i know people that flew it and paid the money..
PM me if you want i could give you names of some people that are good there that are lifetime instructors that won't screw you..
-
Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Interesting reading here.
First : Why would anyone need ten hours to learn to fly a light twin?
Second : Any experienced multi engine instructor that would work for less than fifty dollars after taxes is screwing not only him / her self but probably not experienced to start with.
Third : Having an instructors rating may be determential to giving quality instruction due to the dumming down factor required to pass the TC Voo Doo idiot speak to get the instructors rating.
Fourth : If you guys think flying training is expensive here go to Europe.
Fifth : I last held an Instructors rating in 1965 and now charge $400.00 per flight hour plus accomidations travel expenses and $80.00 per day for food and misc. expenses. ( the down side to my business is the commuting, I just got back from Holland last night and ten days from now will have to head right back. )
Maybe I should start a professional flight instructors franchise and get some of you living above the poverty line.
Cat
First : Why would anyone need ten hours to learn to fly a light twin?
Second : Any experienced multi engine instructor that would work for less than fifty dollars after taxes is screwing not only him / her self but probably not experienced to start with.
Third : Having an instructors rating may be determential to giving quality instruction due to the dumming down factor required to pass the TC Voo Doo idiot speak to get the instructors rating.
Fourth : If you guys think flying training is expensive here go to Europe.
Fifth : I last held an Instructors rating in 1965 and now charge $400.00 per flight hour plus accomidations travel expenses and $80.00 per day for food and misc. expenses. ( the down side to my business is the commuting, I just got back from Holland last night and ten days from now will have to head right back. )
Maybe I should start a professional flight instructors franchise and get some of you living above the poverty line.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
It always makes me laugh that you can be a Class I Instructor without ever having had a real flying job !
As for the twin instruction, I would really suggest a real pilot with loads of experience like Cat, Wasn't Me, etc. Instead of paying big bucks for a guy that will probably sh&t in his pants the first time he'll need to overshoot.
There is a market for High quality instruction all over the country. I hope we'll see more of that in the coming years.
Benwa
As for the twin instruction, I would really suggest a real pilot with loads of experience like Cat, Wasn't Me, etc. Instead of paying big bucks for a guy that will probably sh&t in his pants the first time he'll need to overshoot.
There is a market for High quality instruction all over the country. I hope we'll see more of that in the coming years.
Benwa
benwa
Got to say that if you think instructing is not a real flying job maybe you should have a look at most of the market and the guy who trained you. I have been an instructor for a very long time. I like teaching and enjoy watching students move forward. To say that instructing isn't real is not reasonable.
Got to say that if you think instructing is not a real flying job maybe you should have a look at most of the market and the guy who trained you. I have been an instructor for a very long time. I like teaching and enjoy watching students move forward. To say that instructing isn't real is not reasonable.
I wish I could spell
Wasn't me, what I meant here is: Most flight instructors never fly in IMC. And if they do, there's a good chance it's in a radius of 25 nm around the airport they usually fly in, flying the same approach over and over again.
Doesn't prepare the student to the reality of IFR flight.
I know some instructors do it for the right reason, not only to build time. But some schools don't even let their instructors go out with the precious Twin when it's IMC !
Benwa
Doesn't prepare the student to the reality of IFR flight.
I know some instructors do it for the right reason, not only to build time. But some schools don't even let their instructors go out with the precious Twin when it's IMC !
Benwa
-
Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Hmm.... pulling back a throttle on an approach is really not all that exciting...is it?
Or do you mean on a single engine airplane?
Cat
Or do you mean on a single engine airplane?
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Cat...I was in Lakeland Fla in April...guys there were willing to pay me $30 just to sit right seat and run some LOFT for them. I just may go down there next winter and do that more or less full time! You dont need an instructor ticket to teach IFR or multi here in Canada either, do you?
I know there are dedicated instructors out there....but most are time buiding....and what background do they really have?
I know there are dedicated instructors out there....but most are time buiding....and what background do they really have?
Doc and everybody else with an opinion on IFR instruction (multi as well).
How about we ask Avcanada for a forum to register to the will list who the instructors are what they teach, background and qualifications.
I still think that 100 hours is not enough solo time to be an instructor and to give him/her the right to teach IFR and Multi because they passed a test is dangerous.
How about we ask Avcanada for a forum to register to the will list who the instructors are what they teach, background and qualifications.
I still think that 100 hours is not enough solo time to be an instructor and to give him/her the right to teach IFR and Multi because they passed a test is dangerous.
I wish I could spell
Yep, every time I pull that throttle, the flying thing either goes down, or slows down.
But I always try and keep the engine revs as high as I can during descents... just to keep the temperature from dropping too quickly.
On a twin, when you simulate an engine failure and pull one of the sticks all the way back, and then the Twin/IFR Captain to be pushes the remaining engine to Red line... The other engine now producing not much heat is shrinking like crazy with all that wind. Just like when you pee at minus 50.
But I always try and keep the engine revs as high as I can during descents... just to keep the temperature from dropping too quickly.
On a twin, when you simulate an engine failure and pull one of the sticks all the way back, and then the Twin/IFR Captain to be pushes the remaining engine to Red line... The other engine now producing not much heat is shrinking like crazy with all that wind. Just like when you pee at minus 50.
