Hello all, first time poster long time reader. I'm living in the lower mainland and I'm really just looking for some advice. I want to get on with CMA and aside from emailing my resume I have no idea what else to do to make me stand out from the hundreds of others that apply. What I don't want to hear is how bad cma sucks, I've read those in the past and don't want to read them anymore. As a company they seem to be very solid and thats why I'm interested. Anyway, any advice would be great!
PS I've got 900ish pic and 150ish multi pic
How do you...
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako
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flyingturboprop
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Go drop off your resume in a pink dress, if you are a guy that is, you will stand out in the CP's mind forever!! 
On a serious note, if you live in the lower mainland you are close enough to drive to there base every couple weeks(i think). Go in drop off your resume, ask whats new with the company how things are going, what kind of movement is normal there. Thank him or her for their time and tell them you will drop by in 2 weeks, and then go in 2 weeks. Don't bring back another resume, just go in to shoot the sh*t, don't ask when they will be needing people, he knows what you want and they normally tell you straight up with out asking. REMEMBER don't be a pest, if they are busy tell the receptionest to tell the CP that "Joe Shmoe stopped by just to say hi", and leave.
It worked for me, and the company commented to me how they liked my approach and that I never pestered them. The other nice part is you get to know the CP and the company from hanging around there, when it comes to interview time you already know him so nerves should factor out.
Thats my 2 cents...
On a serious note, if you live in the lower mainland you are close enough to drive to there base every couple weeks(i think). Go in drop off your resume, ask whats new with the company how things are going, what kind of movement is normal there. Thank him or her for their time and tell them you will drop by in 2 weeks, and then go in 2 weeks. Don't bring back another resume, just go in to shoot the sh*t, don't ask when they will be needing people, he knows what you want and they normally tell you straight up with out asking. REMEMBER don't be a pest, if they are busy tell the receptionest to tell the CP that "Joe Shmoe stopped by just to say hi", and leave.
It worked for me, and the company commented to me how they liked my approach and that I never pestered them. The other nice part is you get to know the CP and the company from hanging around there, when it comes to interview time you already know him so nerves should factor out.
Thats my 2 cents...
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BlueSkies12
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Tiny Voices
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flyingturboprop
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Hey flying piston,
Yeah I am a flatlander, I have no clue on driving to Smithers from Vancouver. However if it is the 12 hours you say I am sure the CP doesn't get to many visitors, you want something that will make you stand out? Thats the ticket!! Its the face time that will get you in, maybe going every 2 weeks is no good, but hell once a month won't kill you. How bad do you want the job?
Ski_Bum
Yeah I am a flatlander, I have no clue on driving to Smithers from Vancouver. However if it is the 12 hours you say I am sure the CP doesn't get to many visitors, you want something that will make you stand out? Thats the ticket!! Its the face time that will get you in, maybe going every 2 weeks is no good, but hell once a month won't kill you. How bad do you want the job?
Ski_Bum
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flyingturboprop
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Tiny Voices
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Find out what Tim Hortons or Starbucks their pilots stop for coffee at on their way to work, or where they go on wing Wednesdays...try to get to know some drivers.Ask them they're story and for advice about how they got where they are.Maybe somebody can tell you when the CP is going to be on base so you could try to organize an informal sit down so he gets to know your face.Little black dress optional !
Cheers and good luck dude.
!Cheers and good luck dude.
Just remember to shave those legs, noone likes sasquach legs and a dressTiny Voices wrote:If pink doesn't work for you then, a simple black cocktail dress is always tasteful and never goes out of style!
The feet you step on today might be attached to the ass you're kissing tomorrow.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
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flyingturboprop
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Alright, so since I know no pilots that fly for CMA in Vancouver, or anywhere else for that matter... Is there currently a pilot from CMA in Vancouver that is reading this post that can throw me a bone i.e. go for a beer or whatever?? Yeah that’s right, I'm a heterosexual guy looking for a pilot from CMA to shoot the shit with. Not a date, no black or pink dress... Sorry boys. But seriously, I've been wanting to get on with this company since I finished my commercial license, I've heard of Diane Hughson but I've never talked or met her. I'm still low time (900ish hours) and I'm ready to move on to something much better than where I am. Think back to when you were looking for that first real break, remember being a bit intimidated? Well that’s me, so how about you help a brother out here boys?
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co-joe
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The fact that you pee standing up has already significantly lowered your chances of getting a call back from CMA, but keep trying. Try changing your name to Dianne, or Sherry, at least they'll look at you.
I did hear of a pilot finding out what flight the CP was on, buying a ticket and then trying to get up to the cockpit for a visit. Otherwise you couold road trip to Smithers but I've heard of many people doing that and being turned away at reception.
CMA was advertising for rampies lately weren't they? Maybe you could chukie chuckie some bags for a while. Good luck, and remember to wax against the grain, if you go with the grain the hair can rip out and hurt a lot more.
I did hear of a pilot finding out what flight the CP was on, buying a ticket and then trying to get up to the cockpit for a visit. Otherwise you couold road trip to Smithers but I've heard of many people doing that and being turned away at reception.
CMA was advertising for rampies lately weren't they? Maybe you could chukie chuckie some bags for a while. Good luck, and remember to wax against the grain, if you go with the grain the hair can rip out and hurt a lot more.
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flyingturboprop
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Cat Driver
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If I wanted a job as a pilot with someone and working the ramp or any other position would get me to the position I wanted doing some manual labour would not stand in the way.
I do not know you flyingpiston, however you have spent some time here asking for advice and therefore I am taking the liberty to advise you that having a pilots license and a few hours means very little to a prospective employer as you are one of thousands.
On the other hand an applicant who shows the desire to perform some manual labour as a means to getting a flying job would be a decided advantage.
Or to be perfectly blunt, pilots are no different than truck drivers other than the fact that some pilots feel they are above actually getting their hands dirty by doing a little work.
Think about it.
Cat
I do not know you flyingpiston, however you have spent some time here asking for advice and therefore I am taking the liberty to advise you that having a pilots license and a few hours means very little to a prospective employer as you are one of thousands.
On the other hand an applicant who shows the desire to perform some manual labour as a means to getting a flying job would be a decided advantage.
Or to be perfectly blunt, pilots are no different than truck drivers other than the fact that some pilots feel they are above actually getting their hands dirty by doing a little work.
Think about it.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Good one.If I had no time I would, but I do have time so the only bags I'll . will be off my own plane.
I actually thought you had a chance before reading that comment and everyone was helping you out. Now you strike me as a spoiled westcoast rich kid that'll do the bare minimum to get a job and probably suck at it. Why are you looking for a job anyway????
Everything comes in threes....
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flyingturboprop
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Thats a good one. I have worked the ground for almost a year at a place that was really excellent at hanging the carrot infront of your face, "it wont be long now". Next thing you know its been a year and I'm telling myself that I can't leave now because I've invested so much time into this place. Any day now I'm going to get to fly...Then the company goes tits up and I'm stuck with a year of ramp experience. So sorry if I come across as a "spoiled westcoast rich kid" I've got $300 in the bank and gas is $1.20 to fill my piece of crap car up. I work 12 hours a day 6-7 days a week and can still just pay my rent. Yeah yeah, thats my sob story, I do it because I love it though and I can see bigger and better things. I don't want to . bags and drain crappers only to get screwed in the ass again. Every pilot should think this way, remember what you paid all your hard earned money for? It was to fly, not toss bags and pump frozen crap. I've got a little bit of time now, some experience but I know I have so very much more to learn. I think the best place to do that learning is sitting in the right seat of something, not ground handling. When I worked the ramp I learned so much, and I think that it is an important step in developing a well rounded pilot, but that doesn't mean that everytime you want to work somewhere else you should expect to work the ramp first. Spoiled westcoast rich kid...I'll laugh myself to sleep tonight over that one. Bare minimum to get a job...Even better. I have goals, I want to accomplish them. If I got a job anywhere and loading and unloading the ac were the pilots duty. I would have NO problem with that. If cleaning the ac was pilot duty then I would have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with are companies that hire trained pilots to work the ramp, work them for years with the promise of a flying job and then when you do start flying you have to take a pay cut. Or a company that will string you along and know full well that they're going to be closing the doors at the end of the season but don't tell you a lick. Canadian aviation is such a great industry, as a pilot not only is it common to get stabbed in the back by your company but your fellow brother pilots will be the first to crucify you if you have a different point of view.strike me as a spoiled westcoast rich kid that'll do the bare minimum to get a job and probably suck at it
I wonder if someone is trained as a janitor, and spends every cent he has for that training, if they hope that when they're done they can get a job being a bum and then hopefully move up to being a janitor.
rant over...spoiled rich kid
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Cat Driver
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Do you feel that working on the ramp for a year was not good experience?
I can appreciate your wanting to fly, and the fact that you were promised something you did not get.
But when you take the position that doing any work other than flying is something you now refuse to do you are not going to impress some people here who may be in a position to help you.
That of course is only my opinion.
Cat
I can appreciate your wanting to fly, and the fact that you were promised something you did not get.
But when you take the position that doing any work other than flying is something you now refuse to do you are not going to impress some people here who may be in a position to help you.
That of course is only my opinion.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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flyingturboprop
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Catdriver wrote:
Cat driver wrote:
I wrote:Do you feel that working on the ramp for a year was not good experience?
Yes it was a great experience however I am a pilot. Is it wrong for me to want a job flying cat??When I worked the ramp I learned so much, and I think that it is an important step in developing a well rounded pilot
Cat driver wrote:
I wrote:But when you take the position that doing any work other than flying is something you now refuse to do you are not going to impress some people here who may be in a position to help you.
I have NO problem doing other work. Is it so wrong for a pilot to want a job flying an airplane though?If I got a job anywhere and loading and unloading the ac were the pilots duty. I would have NO problem with that. If cleaning the ac was pilot duty then I would have no problem with that.
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Cat Driver
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" I have NO problem doing other work. Is it so wrong for a pilot to want a job flying an airplane though? "
No of course not, I was only suggesting that you are in a very competative market.
Far , far to many pilots for far to few jobs.
And even when you finally get flying you will be lucky to find a place that will treat you right, it has always been like this in aviation.
So if you really want to work at some specific company you will have to get to know someone as it is generally who you know that gets you a job.
Good luck.
Cat
No of course not, I was only suggesting that you are in a very competative market.
Far , far to many pilots for far to few jobs.
And even when you finally get flying you will be lucky to find a place that will treat you right, it has always been like this in aviation.
So if you really want to work at some specific company you will have to get to know someone as it is generally who you know that gets you a job.
Good luck.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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stopsquawk
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No, the janitor has to work 2 years in the right seat of a hoe, at copilot pay.I wonder if someone is trained as a janitor, and spends every cent he has for that training, if they hope that when they're done they can get a job being a bum and then hopefully move up to being a janitor.
Hi,
Holding on hope for that one particular company offers two things for you. One, it will take you much longer than you expect to get the job. And two, you are passing opportunities waiting for said job.
There are only two things that will get you a job in this industry: networking and qualifications. And they come in that order. (Personally, I have never been hired by sending in a resume, I was offered the job, then they asked for my resume.) You are on the right track 'networking' your way into CMA, but (read the second point again) you won't get there trying to create the connections out of thin air.
Take what you will from my statements, but I would suggest finding a flight job, any flight job, somewhere in B.C. or Alberta. You will quickly discover that being 'in the air' grants you the connections you need. Think about it, every company has pilots that will go or have gone to bigger and brighter things. Get the job, do a good job, and your reputation will spread further than you can imagine.
As well, if CMA is really where you want to be, you will discover this by talking directly to current and former CMA pilots, not from these forums.
Good luck.
Holding on hope for that one particular company offers two things for you. One, it will take you much longer than you expect to get the job. And two, you are passing opportunities waiting for said job.
There are only two things that will get you a job in this industry: networking and qualifications. And they come in that order. (Personally, I have never been hired by sending in a resume, I was offered the job, then they asked for my resume.) You are on the right track 'networking' your way into CMA, but (read the second point again) you won't get there trying to create the connections out of thin air.
Take what you will from my statements, but I would suggest finding a flight job, any flight job, somewhere in B.C. or Alberta. You will quickly discover that being 'in the air' grants you the connections you need. Think about it, every company has pilots that will go or have gone to bigger and brighter things. Get the job, do a good job, and your reputation will spread further than you can imagine.
As well, if CMA is really where you want to be, you will discover this by talking directly to current and former CMA pilots, not from these forums.
Good luck.
Having worked the ramp to get 3 consecutive jobs I can tell you that with 900hrs I would go work the ramp. With 900hrs you'll be far more upgradable for the company in the future, even more so if you've already got the PIC requirements for the ATPL. Many of your ramp pals won't have the 250PIC or night time required to switch seats once they get online. You would have the jump on them in this situation.
If you're sure you can't hack the ramp agian because you have 900hrs and have been screwed before: I would suggest targeting companies that aren't based in cities that are considered nice. Everyone who went up north and worked the ramp and built time and connections has their resume in at CMA, GGN, NCA, etc. So those guys with the time and connections will get the call first. What you should be doing is trying to find out who's feeding CMA and go to their feeders. This is no different than a guy with 2500hrs looking at who's feeding AC. Based on the trends then trying to get on with jazz/ggn/cma to better their networking and work experience to suit AC.
good luck.
If you're sure you can't hack the ramp agian because you have 900hrs and have been screwed before: I would suggest targeting companies that aren't based in cities that are considered nice. Everyone who went up north and worked the ramp and built time and connections has their resume in at CMA, GGN, NCA, etc. So those guys with the time and connections will get the call first. What you should be doing is trying to find out who's feeding CMA and go to their feeders. This is no different than a guy with 2500hrs looking at who's feeding AC. Based on the trends then trying to get on with jazz/ggn/cma to better their networking and work experience to suit AC.
good luck.
Just my two cents here...
I am not a pilot, but an AME, so take it for what it's worth. I have seen my fair share of pilots with many different attitudes towards work. The ones that I see cleaning the airplane, fueling the airplane, vacuuming the airplane, etc. and not complaining about it are the ones who get ahead. Normally this happens because HR recognizes them for their hard work.
Now I did see that you said your not afraid of hard work, etc, etc, but your one big problem was that you got screwed over at your last company because they shut the doors and left you with nothing (except good work ethic).
Well CMA is not going to be shutting the doors any time soon so you have no fear of that. If it were me I would go make my face known, be polite, say "good morning how are you today?" and "thank you very much for your time" and then after they know you want to fly for them (as badly as you do, and for as long as you have wanted to) then suck it up and go work the ramp. After getting the job on the ramp I would start making friends and working hard.
The thing is, it's a well known fact that the industry is at an all time high for employment opportunities, and it's going to get even better for pilots and AME's alike. If you were not considered for a position flying with them in the next year I would be very surprised. They do have a reputation for hiring female pilots over male pilots, but they still do hire male pilots...so all is not lost.
Anyways I guess what I'm saying is that if working for CMA is a big goal for you, then it's worth the effort and investment in that goal. Besides, you could very well end up in a place where you can afford more then just rent!
Good luck with your decision.
~FOX~
I am not a pilot, but an AME, so take it for what it's worth. I have seen my fair share of pilots with many different attitudes towards work. The ones that I see cleaning the airplane, fueling the airplane, vacuuming the airplane, etc. and not complaining about it are the ones who get ahead. Normally this happens because HR recognizes them for their hard work.
Now I did see that you said your not afraid of hard work, etc, etc, but your one big problem was that you got screwed over at your last company because they shut the doors and left you with nothing (except good work ethic).
Well CMA is not going to be shutting the doors any time soon so you have no fear of that. If it were me I would go make my face known, be polite, say "good morning how are you today?" and "thank you very much for your time" and then after they know you want to fly for them (as badly as you do, and for as long as you have wanted to) then suck it up and go work the ramp. After getting the job on the ramp I would start making friends and working hard.
The thing is, it's a well known fact that the industry is at an all time high for employment opportunities, and it's going to get even better for pilots and AME's alike. If you were not considered for a position flying with them in the next year I would be very surprised. They do have a reputation for hiring female pilots over male pilots, but they still do hire male pilots...so all is not lost.
Anyways I guess what I'm saying is that if working for CMA is a big goal for you, then it's worth the effort and investment in that goal. Besides, you could very well end up in a place where you can afford more then just rent!
Good luck with your decision.
~FOX~
Hang Time Is The Best Time!
CMA
My 2 cents,
If you don't hear from CMA right away and want to get flying, make sure you have your applications in to all the Alberta Companies, especially the medevac operators. Might not get a ton of time every month (depends on the company), but you'll get King Air time, and will have a much better chance to get on with CMA after another 2-4 hundred hours of K.A. time.
Have you tried NT Air? You can always make the jump from one to another, although depending on who you talk to, you might not want to leave NT Air for CMA.
Also, I don't know what type of time you have, but look at HeliJet in Vancouver, and maybe you could squeek on there and get some King Air Time without leaving YVR - pretty good pay for an F/O and full benefits (passes, etc.).
Cheers.
If you don't hear from CMA right away and want to get flying, make sure you have your applications in to all the Alberta Companies, especially the medevac operators. Might not get a ton of time every month (depends on the company), but you'll get King Air time, and will have a much better chance to get on with CMA after another 2-4 hundred hours of K.A. time.
Have you tried NT Air? You can always make the jump from one to another, although depending on who you talk to, you might not want to leave NT Air for CMA.
Also, I don't know what type of time you have, but look at HeliJet in Vancouver, and maybe you could squeek on there and get some King Air Time without leaving YVR - pretty good pay for an F/O and full benefits (passes, etc.).
Cheers.
Kick the tires and light the fires...
flyingpiston
All of us were in your shoes once; some of us not long ago at all. Everyone can sympathize with your position; yes it sucks hard what happened to you but that is aviation. I remember ex-C3000 guys looking for my job when I was instructing.
If I was in your shoes I would think long and hard about CMA. Yes, you get the pretty costume but you also get an insulting wage as a lowtime FO.
I am also told that a new hire is on call for the first year or so and that means about 300 hours for your first year, provided you get trained right away, which is unlikely. A friend of mine wanted to get on with them for the longest time and it took him two years to get flying, after he was hired and did the groundschool.
I work for an Alberta company that WILL put people on their planes - right now you could be a rampie or a counter agent for about 6-8 months and be flying in a 'Ho, Pilatus or Jetstream. I don't need to tell you the name of the company if you spend any time researching pilotcareercentre.com.
I know for a fact that they are desperate for guys with a Redpass for YYC so if you had that and made the trip to Peace River you could be flying a plane very similar to CMAs by next spring, provided you work hard and have a good attitude.
I know you don't want to not be flying - but I just went through a long layoff also before this job and I have a lot more hours than you. It's the name of the game unfortunately.
BTW you should carefully listen to guys like Cat Driver - he's been doing this dance since long before we had crap in our pants.
$0.02
All of us were in your shoes once; some of us not long ago at all. Everyone can sympathize with your position; yes it sucks hard what happened to you but that is aviation. I remember ex-C3000 guys looking for my job when I was instructing.
If I was in your shoes I would think long and hard about CMA. Yes, you get the pretty costume but you also get an insulting wage as a lowtime FO.
I am also told that a new hire is on call for the first year or so and that means about 300 hours for your first year, provided you get trained right away, which is unlikely. A friend of mine wanted to get on with them for the longest time and it took him two years to get flying, after he was hired and did the groundschool.
I work for an Alberta company that WILL put people on their planes - right now you could be a rampie or a counter agent for about 6-8 months and be flying in a 'Ho, Pilatus or Jetstream. I don't need to tell you the name of the company if you spend any time researching pilotcareercentre.com.
I know for a fact that they are desperate for guys with a Redpass for YYC so if you had that and made the trip to Peace River you could be flying a plane very similar to CMAs by next spring, provided you work hard and have a good attitude.
I know you don't want to not be flying - but I just went through a long layoff also before this job and I have a lot more hours than you. It's the name of the game unfortunately.
BTW you should carefully listen to guys like Cat Driver - he's been doing this dance since long before we had crap in our pants.
$0.02
