Enviromental Bullshit

Dust Devil · Post by **Dust Devil** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:53 pm

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... r+bullshit

corporate joe · Post by **corporate joe** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:47 pm

This video reminds me of the simpson's video on the meat industry. People actually take these 2 idiots seriously?

Again, time will tell.

CarbIce · Post by **CarbIce** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:10 am

What a crap load of corporate spin that was...

If you seriously believe that the environment is fine, Ive got a nice cool glass of untreated Lake Ontario water for ya to wash the bullshit down with...

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:55 am

Even if I agreed that there was something wrong with the environment (it's allowed to change, you know - you probably don't like the erosion that resulted in the grand canyon, either) ...

I sincerely doubt that a bunch of dim-witted muddled-headed lefties would have a clue as to how to fix it.

History shows that when humans meddle with the environment, it almost always gets worse, regardless of how good your intentions or pure your heart is

grimey · Post by **grimey** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:56 am

Uh, did you guys watch the same video I did? They didn't say that environmentalism is bullshit (the guest was the founder of greenpeace, for @#$! sakes), only that associating everything with globalism is, and that if you're going to protest something, picking something you know fuckall about is a bad idea.

corporate joe · Post by **corporate joe** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:51 am

Hedley wrote:Even if I agreed that there was something wrong with the environment (it's allowed to change, you know - you probably don't like the erosion that resulted in the grand canyon, either) ...

I sincerely doubt that a bunch of dim-witted muddled-headed lefties would have a clue as to how to fix it.

History shows that when humans meddle with the environment, it almost always gets worse, regardless of how good your intentions or pure your heart is

Dumb people are on both sides of the political scale. Left and right. However, generalising and categorising people by their political choices, by their color or by their religion, is the dumbest of all.

Edit: oh and yes, I agree with you that most of the time people meddle with the environment, they make it worst. The debate here is not to meddle more, but to stop doing what is already being done. That means LESS meddling.

shimmydampner · Post by **shimmydampner** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:55 am

But that's his favourite thing to do on AvCanada next to telling the rest of us poor peasants who actually have to work for a living how much we suck for flying straight and level.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:56 am

stop doing what is already being done

Great idea. I suggest we start treating the environment as well as the people do, in say, China.

Sounds good?

the rest of us poor peasants

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_envy

CAL · Post by **CAL** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:07 pm

ahhh yes...we humans are excatly what mother nature intended...we do nothing wrong.

The bigest problem is the average person has no connection with what actually happens to ensure we have all of our creature comforts and rock bottom prices..its kinda like asking a child where their nice yummy hamburger came from....'yes sweetheart it came that nice cow we were patting in the field earlier'..MOO

Our mass consumption is a huge problem and will continue to be a huge problem until we find a sustainable way to do it, and that pressure will have to come from us first....then it goes to governments...then it goes to law....otherwise we will be swimming in our own shit and industrial waste and wearing t-shirts in winter and wearing gas masks in the cities until something notable is done...in the meantime a big shout out to developing countries for doing our dirty work:)

Dust Devil · Post by **Dust Devil** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:37 pm

If I have to belive some bullshit documentary about 911 by some guy no one has ever heard of then what makes this episode of bullshit any less credtable. I'm not saying either are right or wrong, I'm just trying to make a point that there are a number of people here who need to look a little more objectivly at these issues and not just base an opinion on a video that circulates around the net.

I think a number of people need to take a course in decision making.

Dust Devil · Post by **Dust Devil** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:38 pm

CAL wrote:ahhh yes...we humans are excatly what mother nature intended

Any evidence we're not?

hazatude · Post by **hazatude** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:42 pm

Penn and Teller are fucking heroes. What makes them better or worse than Michael Moore?

Dust Devil · Post by **Dust Devil** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:00 pm

hazatude wrote:Penn and Teller are fucking heroes. What makes them better or worse than Michael Moore?

Exactly!!!!!

corporate joe · Post by **corporate joe** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:23 pm

hazatude wrote:Penn and Teller are fucking heroes. What makes them better or worse than Michael Moore?

They are on the same level, I agree. Hero isn't it though.

corporate joe · Post by **corporate joe** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:25 pm

Hedley wrote:
stop doing what is already being done
Great idea. I suggest we start treating the environment as well as the people do, in say, China.

Sounds good?

the rest of us poor peasants
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_envy

No... First of all the US is still the champion of polution per capita. Second of all, China or anyone else not caring is not an excuse for us do it.

CAL · Post by **CAL** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:26 am

DD

I dont disagree with you but in my opinion nature has a natural balance and it regulates itself...we dont fit in that balance in our 'current' format.

If you think we do then no wonder we are where we are in terms of environmental degredation.

master switch · Post by **master switch** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:33 am

I have a crazy friend who says it's wrong to eat meat. Is he crazy?

No, just ignorant. You see, your crazy friend never heard of "The Food Chain."

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:02 am

I think the "reduce, reuse and recycle" propoganda is fantastic ... that way, there's more left over for me

btw, any of you Starbucks dwellers ever left the city and seen the mess a bunch of beavers make when they cut down a bunch of trees, dam up a river and flood an area?

Now, because the beavers aren't human, I presume that you would argue that it is a NATURAL mess, and thus a desirable one?

If a human had cut down the trees and flooded the area, would it be an UNNATURAL mess, because anything a human does is UNNATURAL and hence undesirable from a so-called "environmental" standpoint?

The urban self-hatred that lefties so tiresomely preach wears a bit thin ... isn't it time you said something about Steven Harper eating babies?

Walker · Post by **Walker** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:10 am

The problem is there are TOO MANY PEOPLE. Forget recycling and renewable energy…. What we should REALLY be doing is getting people to stop breeding. Heavy duty education/propaganda in schools. Give financial bonuses to anyone who sterilizes themselves. Take away all the financial advantages of having a child, IE they CANNOT be claimed as a dependant, you do NOT get $x/child a year from the gov… Rather you are taxed to have a child.
Then at the same time make it a social taboo to breed. IE make people feel they are being morally irresponsible. Etc… etc… etc…

goates · Post by **goates** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:20 am

Hedley wrote:I think the "reduce, reuse and recycle" propoganda is fantastic ... that way, there's more left over for me

btw, any of you Starbucks dwellers ever left the city and seen the mess a bunch of beavers make when they cut down a bunch of trees, dam up a river and flood an area?

Now, because the beavers aren't human, I presume that you would argue that it is a NATURAL mess, and thus a desirable one?

If a human had cut down the trees and flooded the area, would it be an UNNATURAL mess, because anything a human does is UNNATURAL and hence undesirable from a so-called "environmental" standpoint?

The urban self-hatred that lefties so tiresomely preach wears a bit thin ... isn't it time you said something about Steven Harper eating babies?

The difference is the scale it is done on when humans do it. I have yet to see a beaver build a dam on the scale of the Grand Coulee, Hoover or Bennett dams, let alone the 3 Gorges dam (or whatever it is called) in China. Nature can easily recover from and adapt to what a beaver does, and even benefits in some cases (ducks, moose and other animals use beaver ponds themselves). It is much harder for nature to adapt to what we do.

And yes, I have seen many beaver dams, all of which are still surrounded by forest. On the other hand, when humans move into an area, they tend to cut down most, if not all of the trees and leave a mess that will take years, if not decades, for nature to recover from.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:30 am

Ever seen the mess that a huge NATURAL forest fire creates? Started with ALL-NATURAL lightning?

How about the NATURAL mess created by volcanoes? All that NATURAL sulphur-ridden pollution caused by millions of tons of volcanic ash being NATURALLY pumped into the atmosphere?

Lighten up on the self-hatred, and the rhetoric and caffeine which NATURALLY occurs at your designer coffee outlet

CAL · Post by **CAL** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:48 am

Hedley how old are you and what is your level of education and where are you from....I am just doing a study and I am hoping you will provide me with the answers to the above.

corporate joe · Post by **corporate joe** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:51 am

EDIT: removed my post because it was sour. Nonetheless, ignorance always angers me.

goates · Post by **goates** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:02 am

Hedley wrote:Ever seen the mess that a huge NATURAL forest fire creates? Started with ALL-NATURAL lightning?

How about the NATURAL mess created by volcanoes? All that NATURAL sulphur-ridden pollution caused by millions of tons of volcanic ash being NATURALLY pumped into the atmosphere?

Lighten up on the self-hatred, and the rhetoric and caffeine which NATURALLY occurs at your designer coffee outlet

Actually, yes I have seen examples of all of those.

Ever heard about lodgepole pines requiring a forest fire before their pine cones will start germinating?

Ever noticed that many of the most fertile farm lands in the world are on or near volcanoes? Or that places like Iceland and Hawaii wouldn't exist if it wasn't for volcanic activity?

Nature has developed a balance, that while cruel at times, works quite well. We on the other hand haven't quite figured this out yet. Things like corporate profits and plain convenience tend to win out over environmental issues, if the environmental side was even considered at all.

Should we just give it all up and go back to the stone age? No, not by a long shot. We should, however, be taking a much closer look at how we affect the world around us, or will one day find out the hard way about how much we need it to survive.

And no, I don't hang out in coffee shops any longer than I need to when waiting for co-workers.

Dust Devil · Post by **Dust Devil** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:03 am

goates wrote:On the other hand, when humans move into an area, they tend to cut down most, if not all of the trees and leave a mess that will take years, if not decades, for nature to recover from.

That's totaly wrong in Canada. Industry in this country is very enviromentaly aware. Forestry Mining and the Oil Industry take reclamation very seriously. I've mentioned my experience in the oil patch before and for the most part companies have enacted zero tolerance for spills. Accidents do happen but when they do measures are taken to remove and replace any contaminated soil. Gone are the days of just throwing a little gravel over it and pretending it will go away. Alot of the changes in the attitude of the oil patch has more to do with the landowner then some hippy enviromentalist.

We have open pit mines 5 minuits from where I'm sitting that reclaim and seed to prairie grass after they finish mining coal. They then use LIDAR to submit reports to the government proving the reclamation that was done.

Forestry also uses LIDAR to minimize it's foot print on the enviroment and to selectivly pick the healthy areas to log in an effort to allow developing areas to grow.

So I don't buy this attitude that people are making things worse. I think in this country things are getting better and the indusries are doing it on their own.