Beaver Driver Requirments

Idriveplane · Post by **Idriveplane** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:28 am

did anyone see the job ad wanting 1000 hrs floats and 250 pic on a beaver? Is this the industry norm or is this guy on crack?

water wings · Post by **water wings** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:07 am

sounds about right... Bamaji is about the same TT requirements, a little less on type, but most places for Beaver is around 500 on type or 1000 total on floats, with a shifting scale on either end and increases near the West coast, with a slight decrease for the NWO Reserves.

I have been out of the float scene for a while, but just looking at PCC.com, don't think i am too far off...am i? hope not, cus i would like to fly off the water again someday and redeem my handle!!!

shimmydampner · Post by **shimmydampner** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:12 pm

That seems pretty whack to me. I know plenty of guys that hopped onto a Beaver with less than 1000 floats and no Beaver time. I dunno why you'd need that much float time to fly one anyway.

medby · Post by **medby** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:38 pm

phillyfan · Post by **phillyfan** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 3:33 pm

Many of those who believed that the Beaver was a simple airplane, which was undeserving of full respect. Had there final view of the living world from behind the controls of one.

angry inch · Post by **angry inch** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 4:17 pm

I think I had about 650 hrs total with 400 on floats when I was put on line flying a Beaver & the guy I was working for said that I had a few hours less than what he usually looks for, but it worked out fine. To tell you the truth, I found the 185 more challenging... I know lots of guys that started flying Beavers with well under 1000 TT with 2/3rds being float time. Seems to depend mostly on the operators insurance. The guy I'm working for now has been insuring the shit out of his airplanes for a long time without any claims & his insurance guys let him do pretty much whatever he wants... I think the ad for the 1000 floats & 250 Beaver time is from someone deperate to get a pilot on line pronto without having to spend a bunch of time getting him/her checked out. It's peak season in the Ontario float world right now & nobody can afford down time!!

zero · Post by **zero** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:18 pm

I started flying the Beaver this year with 800TT and 300+ on floats...never in my wildest dreams did I think I had enough hours to fly the -2 but the operator thought differently and here I am, NW Ontario of course. Coasties are looking for a few more than that. BTW, I got asked back for next year to fly the Otter...will have 600+ on floats by then.

phillyfan · Post by **phillyfan** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:30 pm

If I were looking for a Beaver pilot I would not even consider a guy unless he had 1000 float. With 1000 float, The modern day pilot almost certainly has only one legit season under there belt.

1 season on the dock, logging, "unloggable" right seat time.

1 season of being eased into things hauling ice, beer and overloads, After the big boys have already blazed a trail. While also tagging 0.2 on the end of every leg.

and then one season of actual Cessna flying. Where, for the first time they are expected to use the airplane as a money making tool.

When you are in the business of operating a half million dollar airplane. With half a dozen lives in it.
You would rather have a guy who has already scared the shit out of himself a few times in a Cessna loaded with pop and chips. Then having him do it with six customers. (Customers are already tough enough to keep)

Note: Operators don't run Beaver's with the sole purpose of training newbie pilots. The goal is to get a return on your $500,000 investment with a minimum of risk.

Rowdy · Post by **Rowdy** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:52 pm

Philly.. you're comments sound right on! Our current beaver driver has 3 seasons on him.. 1st dock/180, second year of 180 and now driving the dash 2. However.. due to the short summer seasons and that our longest leg is .4 air time his TT was below 1000 when insured to carry pax in the beav. Mind you.. the man in particular can spot a ripple on the water and it's direction from 2500 feet. But moving along...

With 4 pax in the one machine and six in the other driving a 500k machine here It's not suprising to see the insurance people asking for over 1000 hours to drive a "relatively" easy airplane. It sure is a hell of a lot more forgiving than my buck eighty is. Just have to be careful with low speed downwind turns and that "stall spin die" trick the dhc likes to do.

Wish my edo floated cessna turned on thw water as well as the beav did.

I've got some dead legs and cargo hauls in the dhc-2 and would not truly feel comfortably yet carrying pax in anything but calm, clear crisp days.

What do the coastal boys require time wise?

boozy · Post by **boozy** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:53 pm

I had no type time getting on -2 this summer, so my company in NWO had to get me 50 hours (25 dual/25 PIC) before I could haul passengers. I already had some 1000 hours floats, which was the main reason I was hired.

Luckily, we had a good spring, where the ice went out early and I was good to go by june 7th. For anyone looking for a job, wherever you go, remember that "right seat dual" time (sitting there doing nothing...no dual controls) can help out with your type time for insurance purposes.

It certainly doesn't mean you'll be experienced on the machine, but it "smoothes" out the insurance requirements if they're a little stiff for your company.

Personally, I thought the 50 hours for me was well worth it. I was rusty, I had never even sat in a beaver before and Im a slow learner. For others, well, everyone says the beaver is easy to fly....and there is some truth to that...but easy flying machines still require accurate decisions when times get tough...maybe thats what the 1000 hours are for. Although I still screw up lots....just not with the same intensity as when I had a 100 hours of floats

Mr. North · Post by **Mr. North** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:33 pm

These are all good points. However I was reminded the other day that it's also a matter of how much the owner wants to pay to have you insured. Nothings impossible and everything has it's price... especially with insurance. I know I'm excluding a few other variables but still, some companies can afford low time guys while others simply can't.

... just another factor one would need to consider.

1000 HP · Post by **1000 HP** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:27 am

I got on a Beaver with 1100 TT, 7 hours on floats, and absolutely no clue about bush flying. That was in 1990 and I got hired by an accountant who also had no clue. When I checked out the 180 pilot, he had more time on floats than me (9 hours). That summer, I learned how to porpoise, and recover, how to drag a Beaver over the trees with the tail shaking, why not to land directly at the shore, and had numerous other brushes with death. I got lucky. The other guy sunk the 180. It was a fun and educational summer but kinda stupid. I would not hire a Beaver pilot with less than 1000 hours float time myself...

water wings · Post by **water wings** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:45 am

1000 HP wrote:I got on a Beaver with 1100 TT, 7 hours on floats, and absolutely no clue about bush flying. That was in 1990 and I got hired by an accountant who also had no clue. When I checked out the 180 pilot, he had more time on floats than me (9 hours). That summer, I learned how to porpoise, and recover, how to drag a Beaver over the trees with the tail shaking, why not to land directly at the shore, and had numerous other brushes with death. I got lucky. The other guy sunk the 180. It was a fun and educational summer but kinda stupid. I would not hire a Beaver pilot with less than 1000 hours float time myself...

Holy crap!

i can hear the shitshow soundtrack playing in the background. an acountant

, porpoising

, pointing at the shore just brings images of people fleeing the picnic table at high speed yelling "run for your lives!!!!"

i had quite a laugh at your learning curve, 1000hp!!!!

Rowdy · Post by **Rowdy** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:40 pm

Wow 1000HP thats sounds like quite the wild summer. Shit!

How did the 180 turn turtle?

Anyone wanna give me a beaver?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:36 pm

What the bush flying industry needs is several places where new pilots can go to get in depth training from teachers who are recognized and approved by the insurance underwriters, then the lower time guys would have a better chance of getting work.

Driving Rain · Post by **Driving Rain** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:29 pm

Back in the day I was asked to check out a guy on the Twin Beech. We put a load of lumber on her and he took the left seat and I sat down next to him in the right. After I'd explained the intricacies of the primer,oil cooler, cowl flaps and to make sure we were clear of the dock before winding up the dock side engine for fear of prop strikes we taxied to take off position. He was in his second year on floats and had some 180 and Norseman time under his belt. He got her airbourne and after we'd climbed out and were level in cruise he turned to me and asked me how much time I had on the Beech. I opened my hand and showed him 5 fingers. He mouthed 500 hours? I shook my head and shouted no, 5 hours! He paid real close attention after that.

By Sept. Big Red had called him, they liked the fact he had 300+hours on the Beech.
He's now on the hiring committee at Air Canada.

zero · Post by **zero** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:33 pm

Wow!!!

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:58 pm

The Beech 18 on floats is a joy to fly, beats a Beaver all to hell and gone.

Dog · Post by **Dog** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:27 am

The company I work for likes 1000 hours floats. It's not a steadfast rule by any means. I think a lot of learning goes on in the first thousand hours. The things that happened to 1000hp happen to everyone else in the first year too.
Cat is right about the teachers: the people teaching need to be more than time builders.

pilotbc69 · Post by **pilotbc69** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:29 pm

I haven't had the opportunity to fly a Beaver. But with over 500 hrs on 185 and 2500 total I won't get a Beaver job. Unfortunately since I need 500 hours on a Beaver to get hired on a beaver...I will never fly a beaver. Horseshit. All the "insureance" requirements are gay...and anyone else who thinks otherwise shouldn't be flying bushplanes. Not that you have to be dangerous, but you have to be able to trust people...hours doesn't make a pilot...I'm sorry...but I dont ask my doctor how many hours he has performing bypass surgery. Foolishness I reckon!!

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:23 pm

1000 HP wrote:...not to land directly at the shore...

I don't know SFA about float flying, but if you're landing in a lake, you're always pointing at a shore. Whaddaya mean?

-istp

zero · Post by **zero** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:24 am

You probably won't get a job on the coast with 500hrs on a 185, "bcpilot", but you're chances of getting getting on a -2 next season east of the rockies are very good indeed. Call me in the spring and I'll give you some contacts to make.

Rowdy · Post by **Rowdy** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:10 am

istp wrote:
1000 HP wrote:...not to land directly at the shore...
I don't know SFA about float flying, but if you're landing in a lake, you're always pointing at a shore. Whaddaya mean?

-istp

On larger lakes don't point the aircraft right at the shoreline.. try to land parrallel or within 45 degrees of it should you have to abort the landing

It can be pretty difficult to judge the distances required to come to a stop when aimed right at one. (either you think you're too far back or you're too close)

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