GPS -

recon · Post by **recon** » Sun Jun 27, 2004 4:24 pm

I am currently finishing up my ppl and I am wondering whether you think a hand held GPS would be a good investment as a secondary reference? Im probably looking for something in the $500-$600 range. Im also 17 and just graduated. My parents and grandparents want to get me a grad gift, but Im one of those hard to buy for people and think this would be a good one. Ive been looking at the garmin GPS 3 pilot. What do you think?

GIMD · Post by **GIMD** » Sun Jun 27, 2004 6:46 pm

I have GPS III Pilot. It's not as fancy as some of the other newer and bigger GPSs on the market but it work well as a backup. I use the panel-mounted GPS in the plane but always have the GPS III close by just in case.

Tango01 · Post by **Tango01** » Sun Jun 27, 2004 6:55 pm

Recon, did you do the written yet? BTW, a GPS as a "secondary" reference could never be a bad idea. Ideally, get a hand held 2-way radio, a GPS and a cell phone. You never know when you might need them.

Cheers

T01

recon · Post by **recon** » Sun Jun 27, 2004 7:36 pm

No I havnt. It will still be around 2 weeks before I get around to it. I need to finish studying.

I will shop around and see what is out there for gps's.

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Sun Jun 27, 2004 9:10 pm

First of all, good luck on the written exam...

Re GPS, you can certainly never go wrong with a Garmin. I have used the GPS III, and it is not a bad little unit. Probably the only fault I could find with it is the lack of an external antennae and a smallish display if you are trying to maximize the benefits of moving map. Having said that, it would make a great entry level GPS and would likely fall into your price range.
Personally, I have had a Garmin 195 in my flight bag for the last five years and would be hard pressed to want to trade that in. It has a great moving map display, some limited computer interfacing and lots of memory for waypoint storage. I think you would pay around $900 for this unit now, however Garmin is on to newer and improved things these days and I am not so sure they are still available from Garmin. It might be worth your while to locate a used 195 as it should be good for at least another few years.
One thing to mention, if you are planning to stick around airports, you will want to budget for data base amendments. If you become a float pilot, you will likely be more interested in the best moving map unit with the most memory for storing user waypoints.
My two cents....

SkyKnight · Post by **SkyKnight** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 6:04 pm

pffffffffffff

gps makes rec flying so boring, stick with map reading and basic nav aid work and u'll improve your navigation skills.

i have seen what gps does to private pilots, not pretty

but this is just my opinion, if u have the money (why not)
dont use it as a primary source of navigation

recon · Post by **recon** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:13 pm

Of course it would be a secondary reference. I would still do map reading, then reference to the gps once in a while.

Benwa · Post by **Benwa** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:32 am

Hahahah we've all said that before... trust me, you'll eventually let the map in the flight bag !! Not that you should though.

A portable GPS is a must in a cockpit. Be sure to learn how to operate the thing before you go up with it. But if you're 17, you are used to those gizmos.

Benwa

ScudRunner · Post by **ScudRunner** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:38 am

What Benwa said. My boss took the GPS out of the plane for the first month I was flying for him. Im ATPL and it was a new area for me, he just wanted to make sure I could read a map. All I have is a Garmin 92, It does the trick nothing fancy but if you know how to really use it it'll be all you need.

North Shore · Post by **North Shore** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 11:01 am

Why not buy something like a Garmin Etrex Legend. It's hand-held, and not aviation oriented, but you can use it for other outdoors pursuits such as fishing, hunting, hiking, canoeing etc.. It worked ok for me as a backup in a Navajo last winter. Has a moving map with major roads, waterways etc marked on it...IMHO a much better idea than a strict aviation one - you'd have to lose your regular nav, and the plane-mounted gps before you use it.

hz2p · Post by **hz2p** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 11:03 am

Couple of thoughts on GPS:

1) don't carry a GPS in your flight bag, turned off and think that if you need it, you can just turn it on and instantly get nav info. It may take a while to figure out where it is, because it's in a different place from where you turned it off, plus you're moving, plus you don't know how well the antenna is going to work. Older single-channel rxrs (eg garmin 90) were at lot worse for this than the newer 12-channel rxrs with faster processors.

2) sooner or later the GPS is going to kick offline. It's going to lose power, or satellites, or it's mommy. So how I use a GPS is to program direct to the destination, then turn until my bearing and track are the same numbers. Write down the heading that's on your DI (or set the bug). You've just corrected for crosswind. Now, write down the GPS ETA - you've just corrected for headwind/tailwind. If the GPS dies, hold that heading until that time on your watch, then look down.

This concept of "holding a heading" is a pretty new and revolutionary one, I am told

Once I've got a heading and an ETA, I really couldn't care if the entire electrical system packs it in - unless my DI is a remote electrical gyro like the KCS-55A

MAX EGT · Post by **MAX EGT** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 11:22 am

I might also be one of the few that offers a bit of negative feedback on a choice for a GPS at the private level, but here's why:

Okay, you're 17 and just gradutating... unless you have a boatload of cash, a killer job, or a plane of your own, (courtesy of mom and dad) my guess is that you're not going to be able to afford flying more than twice a month. At the same time, you're not going to be able to go on long cross-country flights, because you can only afford about 1.5 hrs each time! With that in mind, you may be more concerned about keeping your flying skills fresh, and what's more important than circuits and upper airwork?

Long story short: you may not need this GPS. My opinion is use whatever resources are available, but don't forget the basics. If it means your aircraft has 2 VORs and an ADF, make use of them. You don't need to go out and get a full IFR to use them, just learn to use them properly! GPS is fine and dandy, until the unit, signal, or power fails. I use the GPS, but strictly as a backup to traditional DR navigation. I've found my way from CZBB to YKA, YLW, and YYF... without relying on GPS. That includes mapreading and G/S checks of my own.

My best gift suggestion is a headset, and a good quality one at that! Unless you already have one. Better yet, see if your grad present can be a deposit of cash into your flying account. At 45 some odd hours, you don't need a GPS yet, but at least you're thinking ahead.

Have fun!

recon · Post by **recon** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:49 am

Thanks for the input guys, im starting to have second thoughts on it, but it is still on the want list. I got a good headset for xmas a couple years ago when I first started flying, a DC H10-13.4.

Maybe I will just save the money for more flight time. Incase your wondering No i dont have my own plane, and no my parents havnt paid for any of my flying. I got a job when I was 14 and worked for 2 years washing dishes and saved up enough to start flying. Then, I got sick of that so I quit and took last summer off, probably not the best idea, but then I got another job packing groceries and just quit there a couple weeks ago because I got a job as a ramp attendant for Bar XH Air Inc for this summer. And I get flying discounts, so bonus!

Always Moving · Post by **Always Moving** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:41 am

And if you need fire after the crash do not use that lighter in your pocket, do it the old school..... get a pice of wood and some friction........

Use what you got in hand, just do not expect to have it in the future.

pika · Post by **pika** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:33 am

Are you able to upload maps to the aviation specific GPS's as you are with the etrex series?

Out of Control · Post by **Out of Control** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:09 am

A must have no matter what anyone says.

fatdumbandlazy · Post by **fatdumbandlazy** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:37 pm

Don't travel in unfamiliar territory without it. It can be tricky and time consuming telling on BF Nowhere town from another.

Oh yeah, unexpected weather or fuel concerns. Instant diversions. Talk about a life/time saver. Never go too far with out the GPS at least handy.

But like everyone else said, still use the map so when your batteries die and the will, you can find your way home.

MAX EGT · Post by **MAX EGT** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:10 pm

Yes, yes, yes... A GPS is a valuable tool... But let's not forget the details. The pilot is NEW, he's just graduated, he doesn't have much total time or money. Unless he comes across some huge pile of cash, he won't really need a GPS flying within an hour from the airport. Money is better spent getting practical hands and feet experience, and learning to fly the plane first. A new pilot is safer flying short frequent flights, rather than saving for a month and waiting 2 months inbetween flights.

I just don't see the logic in dropping a load of cash on a tool you can't truly appreciate, until you can afford to do the big trips and feel comfortable about venturing out of the comforts of 25 nm from base.

recon · Post by **recon** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 6:15 pm

My parents and grandparents are wanting to get me a grad gift and I am the type of person who is really hard to buy for. My mom wants to get me a leather jacket, but I dont want one. So that is where the cash would be coming from.

If you can use non aviation gps units for aviation, can you use aviation gps handhelds for non aviation uses also?

J.P.WISER · Post by **J.P.WISER** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 9:23 am

Congrates sounds like you will be the new owner of a fanncy ass GPS.
Good luck to ya!!

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 10:11 am

recon,
Yes, you can use Aviation GPS's for non-aviation uses - but best to get something with a moving map. The one drawback with the inexpensive hiking GPS's is that they often do not work well inside aircraft due to fuselage obstruction. I would suggest picking up a small, aviation oriented GPS with a good resolution/map detail display and a good antennae. For now, you might likely do well with the Garmin GPS III. I mentioned earlier about the Garmin 195, but a friend was letting me play with his Garmin 196 and I can see that they have made vast improvements on the display resolution. You can also use an external antennae with this unit.
When you are shopping around, make sure you write down a list of pros and cons for each unit. Then I would recommend writing down a list of any questions you may have and phone the manufacturer directly with your questions. I found the customer service at Garmin to be outstanding and when I phoned them with questions about the 195 unit before purchase, the customer service rep had a demo unit in front of her and walked me through the answers to all my questions.
One other hint, if you are serious about a good unit, be sure to do your research before you make your final choice. Sometimes you have to pay a little extra (maybe you can offer to kick in the extra few bucks yourself), but a good quality unit will last you eons.
Happy Grad.....
Cheers,
Snoopy

recon · Post by **recon** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:46 pm

Ok, I was looking at the Garmen GPS III Pilot and the Lowrence airmap 500 and personally think the airmap 500 looks like a better unit. It has a sharper display and comes with attachments and addons the gps III doesnt have. So I think I will go with that, what do you think?

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:26 pm

I haven't actually used a Lawrance unit in the field, other than to punch a few buttons on a friend's unit. The one thing I remember from my research was that if you wanted detail cartridges for enhanced detail, the Lawrance needed something like 10 to cover all of Canada. With the Garmin units I was looking at, you only needed two to cover all of Canada. As a side note, I never bought any detail cartridges in the end so I don't know if this matters. I'm a bit biased pro-Garmin because I've used a lot of their units and have never been dissapointed. That's not to say that Lawrance doesn't make a good product. Best to try out a unit in person, and if possible borrow one for a cross country trip. Some dealers will let you do this or you can try for a friend....
Good luck, and never neglect your best friend - good ol VNC.
Cheers,
Snoopy

just curious · Post by **just curious** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:53 pm

Do a search of the forum for lowrance. It seems to me that it was a unit that required additional software (at cost) to make it viable in Canada. There was elaborate discussion about it a month or two ago.

While we use a panel mounted IFR unit in our fleet, the common one I see used for handhelds up out way is the Garmin, either the 195 or the 295.

Interestingly enough, Snowbird 11 was on our ramp recently. Hanging from the canopy was a Garmin 195. Not too many Tacans up our way.

recon · Post by **recon** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:59 pm

Thanks for the heads up, I found the thread and will look into it to see if anything has changed since then. Does anyone know if the lowrance airmap 500 comes with detailed canadian maps?

GPS

GPS

GPS

Is this really necessary?

SURE

GPS