A question for Flight Instructors
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Cat Driver
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So nothing has changed, the schools are still stuck with high insurance rates to cover solo and this is passed on to the customers.
What happened to their changing the rules?
Cat
What happened to their changing the rules?
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
It is in the works, as far as I understand. Changes like that take time to change in our system.Cat Driver wrote:So nothing has changed, the schools are still stuck with high insurance rates to cover solo and this is passed on to the customers.
What happened to their changing the rules?
Cat
I believe that most at TC and industry are in agreesment that the current float training standards need to be changed. There was a study done a few years ago that included industry that made recommendations for the changes (in the Pacific Region, if memory serves).
I will see if I can find anything published on the subject and post it here.
-Guy
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Cat Driver
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You know what the kicker is going to be? T.C. will change the requirements, but the insurance companies are used to collecting all those $$$$... so I'll bet ten to one they keep the rates right where they are, and then some, to account for 'inflation' or some other world crisis.
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Cat Driver
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No, insurance underwriters set rates based on risk, therefore with less risk exposure such as soloing student pilots they will reduce the rate.
I am directly associated with some of the top underwriters in Lloyds in London and have set up a training program that they recognize with far lower rates.
I am directly associated with some of the top underwriters in Lloyds in London and have set up a training program that they recognize with far lower rates.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Salary of 50K for instructors is a great idea.
As long as there is also a mechanism in place to keep the good ones and ditch the lousy teachers. I don't mean the lousy pilots (though those should go too)...I mean the lousy teachers. People can get lazy and comfortable on salaries...you need checks in place to prevent that.
As an aside, I was pretty shocked to see a guy offering flight instruction - on remote control aircraft - for $60USD per hour in Denver, and people were eating it up. He's making more than the real flight instructors at KAPA...how sad is that.
As long as there is also a mechanism in place to keep the good ones and ditch the lousy teachers. I don't mean the lousy pilots (though those should go too)...I mean the lousy teachers. People can get lazy and comfortable on salaries...you need checks in place to prevent that.
As an aside, I was pretty shocked to see a guy offering flight instruction - on remote control aircraft - for $60USD per hour in Denver, and people were eating it up. He's making more than the real flight instructors at KAPA...how sad is that.
Why do something now when you can do it later??
Actually there's a guy here in Toronto that offers RC Helicopter training for 60 an hour which I think is pretty reasonable. That's because if you ever learn on your own, like I did, you spent way more on crash costs then 60 an hour. Crash costs for learning on your own can easily be 60 gone in 3 seconds. If you have a bad one and you total a bird they cost somewhere close to 1k for air frame, engine and electronics.
Last edited by gotak on Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cat Driver
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yxe, here is a paste from my explination on how to earn reasonable pay instructing.
_________________________________________________
Back to this discussion....Canadian flight instructors pay and how to make a decent living.....
I came close to getting a school underway some years ago and had employed a good friend who was willing to work under a system where we would offer flat rate PPL based on the TC minimums of 45 hours plus the test flight.
The secret was to charge a flat fee based on the mid average cost to get a license in Kanada, there were safeguards in our plan to ensure no one missunderstood the program.
I got to the stage of buying two C150's and had the school approved by flight training....however things went awry with TC M&M and in the end TCCA has banned me from ever owning another OC and ever teaching in Canada...so I am quite willing to pass on my ideas to others who are not on TC's no work in Kanada's list.
Cat
As you can see only the better instructors will be able to offer instruction under that pay scale.
It is really simple, I'm suprised no one does it.
Cat
_________________________________________________
Back to this discussion....Canadian flight instructors pay and how to make a decent living.....
I came close to getting a school underway some years ago and had employed a good friend who was willing to work under a system where we would offer flat rate PPL based on the TC minimums of 45 hours plus the test flight.
The secret was to charge a flat fee based on the mid average cost to get a license in Kanada, there were safeguards in our plan to ensure no one missunderstood the program.
I got to the stage of buying two C150's and had the school approved by flight training....however things went awry with TC M&M and in the end TCCA has banned me from ever owning another OC and ever teaching in Canada...so I am quite willing to pass on my ideas to others who are not on TC's no work in Kanada's list.
Cat
As you can see only the better instructors will be able to offer instruction under that pay scale.
It is really simple, I'm suprised no one does it.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
I saw that - could work - though you'd have to be able to distinguish a poor instructor from a poor student in the case where someone isn't done in the set time...I take it thats part of the safeguards you mention. In any case I say go for itCat Driver wrote:yxe, here is a paste from my explination on how to earn reasonable pay instructing.
_________________________________________________
Back to this discussion....Canadian flight instructors pay and how to make a decent living.....
I came close to getting a school underway some years ago and had employed a good friend who was willing to work under a system where we would offer flat rate PPL based on the TC minimums of 45 hours plus the test flight.
The secret was to charge a flat fee based on the mid average cost to get a license in Kanada, there were safeguards in our plan to ensure no one missunderstood the program.
I got to the stage of buying two C150's and had the school approved by flight training....however things went awry with TC M&M and in the end TCCA has banned me from ever owning another OC and ever teaching in Canada...so I am quite willing to pass on my ideas to others who are not on TC's no work in Kanada's list.
Cat
As you can see only the better instructors will be able to offer instruction under that pay scale.
It is really simple, I'm suprised no one does it.
Cat
Why do something now when you can do it later??
I believe it. I'm not saying RC training isn't worth $60 / hour, I'm saying flight instructors are grossly underpaid (as are school teachers, if you ask me).gotak wrote:Actually there's a guy here in Toronto that offers RC Helicopter training for 60 an hour which I think is pretty reasonable. That's because if you ever learn on your own, like I did, you spent way more on crash costs then 60 an hour. Crash costs for learning on your own can easily be 60 gone in 3 seconds. If you have a bad one and you total a bird they cost somewhere close to 1k for air frame, engine and electronics.
Why do something now when you can do it later??
Cat,
I think I remember reading one of your posts a while back talking about a flat rate PPL. I think it would work just fine. In a way it would have to be similar to the air cadet program (god forbid) they send these kids through a 45hour ppl training program. It is possible to teach almost anyone to a ppl standard in 45 hours but you have to do the training really fast and have their lives revolve around flying for a couple months. I have flown with a couple youngsters that got an air cadet ppl and they had only enough knowledge to pass the test, witch faded quickly because they didn’t have a true understanding of the material. That would be much less of a problem if they were trained by highly experienced instructors.
I think your school idea would work just fine. The thing that I think would hold people back is:
“safeguards in our plan to ensure no one missunderstood the program.”
There has to be some sort of a time requirement on behalf of the student such as 5 lessons per week plus ground schooling. No matter how good the instructor is its going to be difficult to get to PPL standard in 45hours if only your only flying every two weeks.
Lots of people have the $7500 for a licence. Not that many of the people with $7500 can drop the rest of their life to spend a couple months to get a PPL in a plan like yours. For younger CPL minded people you would have it made. You can offer them a PPL, night, float, aerobatic, tail wheel, multi IFR and CPL. For about 50G. It would take one year of their life FULL TIME to become a really well rounded pilot that’s ready to work flying a 182.
You don’t need your own OC/ FTU you only need to sell this idea to someone with a FTU and get to work… Just don’t let TC know that your running the show ..
There will be some really good 200 hour wonders around a year after your up and going.
Good luck
I think I remember reading one of your posts a while back talking about a flat rate PPL. I think it would work just fine. In a way it would have to be similar to the air cadet program (god forbid) they send these kids through a 45hour ppl training program. It is possible to teach almost anyone to a ppl standard in 45 hours but you have to do the training really fast and have their lives revolve around flying for a couple months. I have flown with a couple youngsters that got an air cadet ppl and they had only enough knowledge to pass the test, witch faded quickly because they didn’t have a true understanding of the material. That would be much less of a problem if they were trained by highly experienced instructors.
I think your school idea would work just fine. The thing that I think would hold people back is:
“safeguards in our plan to ensure no one missunderstood the program.”
There has to be some sort of a time requirement on behalf of the student such as 5 lessons per week plus ground schooling. No matter how good the instructor is its going to be difficult to get to PPL standard in 45hours if only your only flying every two weeks.
Lots of people have the $7500 for a licence. Not that many of the people with $7500 can drop the rest of their life to spend a couple months to get a PPL in a plan like yours. For younger CPL minded people you would have it made. You can offer them a PPL, night, float, aerobatic, tail wheel, multi IFR and CPL. For about 50G. It would take one year of their life FULL TIME to become a really well rounded pilot that’s ready to work flying a 182.
You don’t need your own OC/ FTU you only need to sell this idea to someone with a FTU and get to work… Just don’t let TC know that your running the show ..
There will be some really good 200 hour wonders around a year after your up and going.
Good luck
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Cat Driver
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" You don’t need your own OC/ FTU you only need to sell this idea to someone with a FTU and get to work… Just don’t let TC know that your running the show .. "
Finally, someone has grasped the basics of what I have described as a means to increasing instructor wages...
There are a few safeguards that must be observed in using the model that I am suggesting.....when we put our training plan together we used a median of what the total cost for the PPL was in 2001 using Cessna 150's I can't recall the exact figures we came up with but both the instructor and I agreed that the instructor would average $50.00 per flight hour that the airplane flew.
There will be ocassions where the time will exceed 46 hours due to various reasons, however the only impact that will have on the instructor will be her / his average net per hour will be reduced as the total price is fixed.
Remember using this model for pricing the training gives the same profit margin to the aircraft operator as the instructor so it is a win win for both, not to mention the student wins big time through receiving top level instruction.....
....another plus costwise for the student is for every hour flight of training they save means much more than just flying time as it also saves days of extra time plus travel to and from the airport for those extra hours.
We had in place two hours of initial training so the instructor has a chance to identify any unusual problems a new student may have that would prevent him / her from learning at a normal rate.
The student must be first sat down and the whole concept laid out and explained before entering into this agreement, properly planned and explained it is a win for all concerned.
Quote:
" Just don’t let TC know that your running the show .. "
Ha, ha, ha, I-Reason thats funny.
The last thing on earth I will do is get involved in ab-initio training in Kanada, I am only passing on some ideas to all the keeners who are working for slave labour wages, if they are not interested I couldnt' care less.
As to TC knowing what I am doing hell I want them to know, especially when I get my Cub finished and start my training program without an OC...oh yes I just can't wait for the first one of those coc.suckers who has the balls to actually walk up to me and try and show me how powerful they think they are.
While I'm here I would like to emphasize a very critical issue with regard to flight training, unless the first several hours of flight instruction is done correctly you will never turn out a good product period...from observing pilots that I have given instruction to here in Kanada it is obvious they were never properly taught the basics which are attitudes and movements.
Cat
Finally, someone has grasped the basics of what I have described as a means to increasing instructor wages...
There are a few safeguards that must be observed in using the model that I am suggesting.....when we put our training plan together we used a median of what the total cost for the PPL was in 2001 using Cessna 150's I can't recall the exact figures we came up with but both the instructor and I agreed that the instructor would average $50.00 per flight hour that the airplane flew.
There will be ocassions where the time will exceed 46 hours due to various reasons, however the only impact that will have on the instructor will be her / his average net per hour will be reduced as the total price is fixed.
Remember using this model for pricing the training gives the same profit margin to the aircraft operator as the instructor so it is a win win for both, not to mention the student wins big time through receiving top level instruction.....
....another plus costwise for the student is for every hour flight of training they save means much more than just flying time as it also saves days of extra time plus travel to and from the airport for those extra hours.
We had in place two hours of initial training so the instructor has a chance to identify any unusual problems a new student may have that would prevent him / her from learning at a normal rate.
The student must be first sat down and the whole concept laid out and explained before entering into this agreement, properly planned and explained it is a win for all concerned.
Quote:
" Just don’t let TC know that your running the show .. "
Ha, ha, ha, I-Reason thats funny.
The last thing on earth I will do is get involved in ab-initio training in Kanada, I am only passing on some ideas to all the keeners who are working for slave labour wages, if they are not interested I couldnt' care less.
As to TC knowing what I am doing hell I want them to know, especially when I get my Cub finished and start my training program without an OC...oh yes I just can't wait for the first one of those coc.suckers who has the balls to actually walk up to me and try and show me how powerful they think they are.
While I'm here I would like to emphasize a very critical issue with regard to flight training, unless the first several hours of flight instruction is done correctly you will never turn out a good product period...from observing pilots that I have given instruction to here in Kanada it is obvious they were never properly taught the basics which are attitudes and movements.
Cat
Last edited by Cat Driver on Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Good points, .. A couple of things I have learned about flight training:
1) If at all possible, start a student out on a tailwheel aircraft with at least some adverse yaw. It is preferable for them NOT to fly a nosewheel aircraft until after solo, if it can be arranged.
Someone that learns to fly on a nosewheel aircraft learns bad habits (ie you can leave your feet on the floor) which must be unlearned, to fly a tailwheel aircraft, or to master a crosswind landing, or to fly the aircraft at high AOA.
2) the fewer flight instruments, the better. I prefer just airspeed, altimeter, ball, and grudgingly a VSI. No gyros to get damaged, or to look at instead of looking outside. These days kids have spent hours on flight simulators, and the first thing you have to do is take your jacket off, cover up the panel, and make them unlearn their self-taught bad habits, and force them to LOOK OUTSIDE.
Apart from obvious safety considerations, a new student pilot needs to learn what the straight-and-level attitude looks like, the climb attitude, and gosh the landing attitude might come in handy, during the flare, too.
1) If at all possible, start a student out on a tailwheel aircraft with at least some adverse yaw. It is preferable for them NOT to fly a nosewheel aircraft until after solo, if it can be arranged.
Someone that learns to fly on a nosewheel aircraft learns bad habits (ie you can leave your feet on the floor) which must be unlearned, to fly a tailwheel aircraft, or to master a crosswind landing, or to fly the aircraft at high AOA.
2) the fewer flight instruments, the better. I prefer just airspeed, altimeter, ball, and grudgingly a VSI. No gyros to get damaged, or to look at instead of looking outside. These days kids have spent hours on flight simulators, and the first thing you have to do is take your jacket off, cover up the panel, and make them unlearn their self-taught bad habits, and force them to LOOK OUTSIDE.
Apart from obvious safety considerations, a new student pilot needs to learn what the straight-and-level attitude looks like, the climb attitude, and gosh the landing attitude might come in handy, during the flare, too.
Cat a couple days ago I had my first ride in a “super cub” it was a 180hp experimental on composite anfib floats. The owner took me up for a flight off of his grass strip near CYXU after I landed there in my plane. That plane was a gentle lil kitten to fly. Once your up and going with your “school” you will have no problems finding folks that will do some training if yours flys ½ as well as the one I was in.
Here is some shit heading your way CAT.
I think we live in the best country in the world especially if you’re a pilot, we have everything we could ever want. Although there are a few bad apples at TC witch we all know you hate. Why must you be an ass and spell Canada with a K? Give the great place we live a bit of respect and spell the fucking name right! Its CANADA!
Rant over
Here is some shit heading your way CAT.
I think we live in the best country in the world especially if you’re a pilot, we have everything we could ever want. Although there are a few bad apples at TC witch we all know you hate. Why must you be an ass and spell Canada with a K? Give the great place we live a bit of respect and spell the fucking name right! Its CANADA!
Rant over
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Cat Driver
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" I think we live in the best country in the world especially if you’re a pilot, we have everything we could ever want. Although there are a few bad apples at TC witch we all know you hate. Why must you be an ass and spell Canada with a K? Give the great place we live a bit of respect and spell the fucking name right! Its CANADA! "
Calm down I-reason, my spelling of Canada using the letter K is aimed at the thugs in TC who are more cowardly than the Klan members who hide behind bed sheets...at least Klan members ocassionaly appear in public....
You ever tried to deal with your present DGCA??
I have and found him to be a fu.king coward who refuses to deal with serious problems within TCCA, once he realized that he was defending the indefensable he refused to communicate and left the issues unsolved.
I find it sad that so many members of the aviation community rally around the flag and bury their heads in the sand when faced with the truth....which is your regulatority body has been corrupted by those in charge and some of you are to myopic to realize that someday you may be at their mercy, then you will understand.
I do not mind helping you guys out with advice about how to better your position in aviation and to give advice on how to teach flying, however please do not preach alligence to a corrupt Government to me.
If Canada is such a great place for Canadian citizens to earn a living in flying how come I no longer earn a living flying in Canada?
Cat
Calm down I-reason, my spelling of Canada using the letter K is aimed at the thugs in TC who are more cowardly than the Klan members who hide behind bed sheets...at least Klan members ocassionaly appear in public....
You ever tried to deal with your present DGCA??
I have and found him to be a fu.king coward who refuses to deal with serious problems within TCCA, once he realized that he was defending the indefensable he refused to communicate and left the issues unsolved.
I find it sad that so many members of the aviation community rally around the flag and bury their heads in the sand when faced with the truth....which is your regulatority body has been corrupted by those in charge and some of you are to myopic to realize that someday you may be at their mercy, then you will understand.
I do not mind helping you guys out with advice about how to better your position in aviation and to give advice on how to teach flying, however please do not preach alligence to a corrupt Government to me.
If Canada is such a great place for Canadian citizens to earn a living in flying how come I no longer earn a living flying in Canada?
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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cessnafloatflyer
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Cat Driver
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" I'm legal and on the up and up with TC "
Oh, I'm legal Cessnafloatflyer it's just that there are a couple of thugs working under the direction of the RDCA here who tells my clients that TC will not approve or accept any training done by me..
...the last time the coc.sucker told one of my clients that my training is unacceptable I had an agreement with a FTU to satisfy the Regs...made no difference he just sent my client to someone else....the client had come all the way from Scotland.
One gets tired of dealing with corrupt TC officials and rather than go over to 800 Burrard and assault the fuckers I just work outside the country.
It's truly amazing that they can get away with unlawful actions and even stranger that many here can't understand that these things do go on behind the scenes.
Anyhow whatever you do don't ever mention my name at 800 Burrard or you may get a lot of " attention " from the thugs who run this region under the present RDCA.
I would be pleased to name this individual if you PM me.
Oh, I'm legal Cessnafloatflyer it's just that there are a couple of thugs working under the direction of the RDCA here who tells my clients that TC will not approve or accept any training done by me..
...the last time the coc.sucker told one of my clients that my training is unacceptable I had an agreement with a FTU to satisfy the Regs...made no difference he just sent my client to someone else....the client had come all the way from Scotland.
One gets tired of dealing with corrupt TC officials and rather than go over to 800 Burrard and assault the fuckers I just work outside the country.
It's truly amazing that they can get away with unlawful actions and even stranger that many here can't understand that these things do go on behind the scenes.
Anyhow whatever you do don't ever mention my name at 800 Burrard or you may get a lot of " attention " from the thugs who run this region under the present RDCA.
I would be pleased to name this individual if you PM me.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Cat, still no DFTE float ride: 5 takeoffs and landings solo are still required, although I hear the same talk of a ride that you and TC Guy do. I'm still in this end of the business (training) because I enjoy it. However, the other aspects of our operation have a WAAAYYYY better margin to the point that even I am considering shutting the school part down, or selling it off. I'm already trying to target the high end. The bottom feeders are never worth the effort. In the past month, I've told 4 perspective clients I'm not interested in doing business with them. Took me eight years to figure out this was the right thing to do for all involved.
I think your concept has merit, but some of the issues have already been raised: Inability to commit to a tightly scheduled program, the odd Pee-wee Herman type who will have a completely different learning curve from your average student, etc. We've trained several foreign students who have come here for 1-1.5 months and banged it off. The profit margin goes through the roof (even without a 45 hour commitment) because your resources as a school are very targeted, and it doesn't drag on for years.
Why do you think the cadet contracts are so highly sought after?
I think your concept has merit, but some of the issues have already been raised: Inability to commit to a tightly scheduled program, the odd Pee-wee Herman type who will have a completely different learning curve from your average student, etc. We've trained several foreign students who have come here for 1-1.5 months and banged it off. The profit margin goes through the roof (even without a 45 hour commitment) because your resources as a school are very targeted, and it doesn't drag on for years.
Why do you think the cadet contracts are so highly sought after?
Aviation- the hardest way possible to make an easy living!
"You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace!" Michael Franti- Spearhead
"Trust everyone, but cut the cards". My Grandma.
"You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace!" Michael Franti- Spearhead
"Trust everyone, but cut the cards". My Grandma.
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Cat Driver
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I knew it was only a matter of time until you started to look to being more selective in where you expend your energies.
Don't let the FTU expire because there may be need for it later.
You have two very important assets that you can market.
Your location is second to none in the business.
You have pissed into the wind for years trying to make a living in the same rat race most everyone else has failed at eventually, and now realize it is not going to be anymore than living hand to mouth. Not to mention the frustration of dealing with people who haven't a clue about business or being productive.
Now that you are reassessing your game work on those two assets.
Like I have discussed with you there are far more productive ways to do aviation....we should talk again.
How did the 182 work out?
.
Don't let the FTU expire because there may be need for it later.
You have two very important assets that you can market.
Your location is second to none in the business.
You have pissed into the wind for years trying to make a living in the same rat race most everyone else has failed at eventually, and now realize it is not going to be anymore than living hand to mouth. Not to mention the frustration of dealing with people who haven't a clue about business or being productive.
Now that you are reassessing your game work on those two assets.
Like I have discussed with you there are far more productive ways to do aviation....we should talk again.
How did the 182 work out?
.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Let me finish out this fire season, get a chance to catch my breath, and take a sober second thought on all this. The towel hasn't been thrown in on the FTU yet, but it is in hand... So much BS.
Regardless how you do the 'business' this is an incredibly demanding undertaking, and unfortunately, as is shown by posts on this forum time and again, the average pilot has NO FUC#ING CLUE about what it takes to operate (neither did I, but at least I was smart enough to know the level of my ignorance), and what the realities of this commerce entail. We've been incredibly fortunate, and our current staff is excellent. I've had the privilege to work this summer with some of the best this industry has to offer, and unfortunately, also some who represent everything that is wrong with Canadian Aviation.
I had a great time with the 182 (love flying floats again!), but, alas, narrow-minded MOF folk who, like too many pilots, are ignorant of aircraft capability and haven't a clue about what needs to be done to make a private sector business work, have forced me to put it back on wheels for the end of the season in order to salvage a 'win'. Looking to possibly sell it and buy a GCBC to pair with the 185 one of our students has just bought for us to use next season. We should definitely talk again. Lots in the works. Tons of potential.
Regardless how you do the 'business' this is an incredibly demanding undertaking, and unfortunately, as is shown by posts on this forum time and again, the average pilot has NO FUC#ING CLUE about what it takes to operate (neither did I, but at least I was smart enough to know the level of my ignorance), and what the realities of this commerce entail. We've been incredibly fortunate, and our current staff is excellent. I've had the privilege to work this summer with some of the best this industry has to offer, and unfortunately, also some who represent everything that is wrong with Canadian Aviation.
I had a great time with the 182 (love flying floats again!), but, alas, narrow-minded MOF folk who, like too many pilots, are ignorant of aircraft capability and haven't a clue about what needs to be done to make a private sector business work, have forced me to put it back on wheels for the end of the season in order to salvage a 'win'. Looking to possibly sell it and buy a GCBC to pair with the 185 one of our students has just bought for us to use next season. We should definitely talk again. Lots in the works. Tons of potential.
Aviation- the hardest way possible to make an easy living!
"You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace!" Michael Franti- Spearhead
"Trust everyone, but cut the cards". My Grandma.
"You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace!" Michael Franti- Spearhead
"Trust everyone, but cut the cards". My Grandma.
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Cat Driver
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Airtids, just a few comments this A.M. before I head over to the west coast for a few days of canine fornicating.
First off it is my intention to go ahead with my plans to make money doing what I know best, building, maintaining and flying airplanes.
To do this one must be able to operate outside of the over regulated sector of aviation that requires an Operating Certificate with all the mandatory positions to be filled and the crushing piles of paper work and interference by drones in Government who couldn't organize a circle jerk if their life depended on it.
My plan is simple, use homebuilt aircraft and operate under transferable fractional ownership and carefully screen the owners.
There are two world renown companies who have figured out how to conduct sea plane training, Jack Browns in Florida and Aero Club Como in Italy. Both of these companies understand that sea planes are sea planes and keeping it simple is the way to succeed.
Pilots who think you need exotic aircraft to teach sea plane skills do not understand the subject......there is a difference between Float equipped aircraft and flying boats, however the difference is only in high speed water handling.
Your choice of a GCBC is an indication that you are learning.
Now to the fixed rate PPL....there must be a cut off point regarding the time to finish and the maximum hours....the object is to offer top notch instruction at a profit margin that allows you to provide said instruction.
It is interesting that now that I have suggested to the instructor pool how they can better their income, no one seems to think it is possible.
So.....
Either the TC 45 hour course is not doable.
Or....
The instructors feel they are not capable of meeting the TC requirements without doubling the time to teach it.
But I really don't give a fu.k what they do as it does not affect my income.
Cat
First off it is my intention to go ahead with my plans to make money doing what I know best, building, maintaining and flying airplanes.
To do this one must be able to operate outside of the over regulated sector of aviation that requires an Operating Certificate with all the mandatory positions to be filled and the crushing piles of paper work and interference by drones in Government who couldn't organize a circle jerk if their life depended on it.
My plan is simple, use homebuilt aircraft and operate under transferable fractional ownership and carefully screen the owners.
There are two world renown companies who have figured out how to conduct sea plane training, Jack Browns in Florida and Aero Club Como in Italy. Both of these companies understand that sea planes are sea planes and keeping it simple is the way to succeed.
Pilots who think you need exotic aircraft to teach sea plane skills do not understand the subject......there is a difference between Float equipped aircraft and flying boats, however the difference is only in high speed water handling.
Your choice of a GCBC is an indication that you are learning.
Now to the fixed rate PPL....there must be a cut off point regarding the time to finish and the maximum hours....the object is to offer top notch instruction at a profit margin that allows you to provide said instruction.
It is interesting that now that I have suggested to the instructor pool how they can better their income, no one seems to think it is possible.
So.....
Either the TC 45 hour course is not doable.
Or....
The instructors feel they are not capable of meeting the TC requirements without doubling the time to teach it.
But I really don't give a fu.k what they do as it does not affect my income.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Cat, don't get me wrong: It's not that I think your program can't be done (I know it can because we've done several PPLs in the minimum required- some even less, but they had to go burn off a few hours 
), I just think there's a bit of a barrier in terms of the number of folks who have both the money AND the time to make this sort of thing work. THAT is a very niche market. I wish I'd thought about flat-rating the PPL at the average when those select few (mostly foreign students) who approached us for a fast-tracked program did so. It's brilliance, really, and if you think the market actually exists for this kind of a deal, then by all means that makes an FTU OC worth having. My exposure to this industry doesn't run as deep as yours, so I'm basing my opinion on only what I've seen. What I've seen is lots of folks who are willing to pay more for the license because they can't afford to take the time to commit to an intense program. I've had clients who have taken 5+ years to finish, and they did finish, but it cost them a fortune: 70-80 hours. The margin for them is the same to us as someone who completes in the more typical 4 month period, maybe even a little less, as the resources are committed over a longer period. A false economy for everyone involved.
I happen to agree that our location makes an excellent platform for someone to spend a month of their life pursuing a discipline they can enjoy for years to come. What a great holiday that would be. Bring the whole family, too!!
As to our choice of aircraft for float training, understand that as a commercial operator I needed to compromise and find a machine that was suited to training, as well as to our daily ops. The 182 was a nice compromise, but new opportunities have presented themselves, so we may now have the opportunity to specialise with our equipment. I can hardly wait! We may be able to offer the entire CPL on floats at a reasonable cost. Imagine that!
), I just think there's a bit of a barrier in terms of the number of folks who have both the money AND the time to make this sort of thing work. THAT is a very niche market. I wish I'd thought about flat-rating the PPL at the average when those select few (mostly foreign students) who approached us for a fast-tracked program did so. It's brilliance, really, and if you think the market actually exists for this kind of a deal, then by all means that makes an FTU OC worth having. My exposure to this industry doesn't run as deep as yours, so I'm basing my opinion on only what I've seen. What I've seen is lots of folks who are willing to pay more for the license because they can't afford to take the time to commit to an intense program. I've had clients who have taken 5+ years to finish, and they did finish, but it cost them a fortune: 70-80 hours. The margin for them is the same to us as someone who completes in the more typical 4 month period, maybe even a little less, as the resources are committed over a longer period. A false economy for everyone involved.I happen to agree that our location makes an excellent platform for someone to spend a month of their life pursuing a discipline they can enjoy for years to come. What a great holiday that would be. Bring the whole family, too!!
As to our choice of aircraft for float training, understand that as a commercial operator I needed to compromise and find a machine that was suited to training, as well as to our daily ops. The 182 was a nice compromise, but new opportunities have presented themselves, so we may now have the opportunity to specialise with our equipment. I can hardly wait! We may be able to offer the entire CPL on floats at a reasonable cost. Imagine that!
Aviation- the hardest way possible to make an easy living!
"You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace!" Michael Franti- Spearhead
"Trust everyone, but cut the cards". My Grandma.
"You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace!" Michael Franti- Spearhead
"Trust everyone, but cut the cards". My Grandma.
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Where'd who go?
- Rank 2
- Posts: 90
- Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:07 pm
- Location: Here, wishing I was there.
WWG?
Last edited by Where'd who go? on Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
A Pilot's life is measured in six minute intervals.
