Canadian Air Charters - YVR

gonefishin' · Post by **gonefishin'** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:49 am

nimbostratus wrote:
gonefishin' wrote:"ADONIS" is no more, its now "APEX"...
Don't expect "APEX" to last... Canada Jet tried that one several years ago but were forced to change it to "Pinnacle" after Airborne Express "ABEX" complained it was too similar.

"Westex" and "Westjet" existed concurrently for years with no problem. as "Abex" is now DHL, don't think it will be an issue....

JZA · Post by **JZA** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:49 pm

Eagle Eye wrote:Westex, NavAir, CWA, Service Air, NorVanAir, Northern Hawk, Regency, Sonic Boom, Nexjet, TK Air. They just keep coming and asking for more.

Don't try grouping all the 703s together...while some do share similarities...the only thing the above share is the fact that they are no longer around.

marktheone · Post by **marktheone** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:14 pm

JZA wrote:
Eagle Eye wrote:Westex, NavAir, CWA, Service Air, NorVanAir, Northern Hawk, Regency, Sonic Boom, Nexjet, TK Air. They just keep coming and asking for more.
Don't try grouping all the 703s together...while some do share similarities...the only thing the above share is the fact that they are no longer around.

Well put.

Wixel Pimp · Post by **Wixel Pimp** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:47 pm

Believe what you like, but there are some quality planes, pilots, and 703 companies operating out of YVR right now...

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:10 pm

" Believe what you like, but there are some quality planes, pilots, and 703 companies operating out of YVR right now..."

WTF is going on in aviation when having quality planes and pilots operating in one of Canadas largest aviation centers is so unusual that people marvel at such a thing??

marktheone · Post by **marktheone** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:33 pm

Cat Driver wrote:" Believe what you like, but there are some quality planes, pilots, and 703 companies operating out of YVR right now..."

WTF is going on in aviation when having quality planes and pilots operating in one of Canadas largest aviation centers is so unusual that people marvel at such a thing??

Actually I think that this thread started as a job troll forum. CAC is a reputable company with clean safe A/C. Some goof with a "reputable" source figured that they sell PPC's. Maybe he's lookin to buy one?

That'll be the end of the lunacy of this thread for me.

Navajo-dude · Post by **Navajo-dude** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:30 am

marktheone wrote: Actually I think that this thread started as a job troll forum. CAC is a reputable company with clean safe A/C. Some goof with a "reputable" source figured that they sell PPC's. Maybe he's lookin to buy one?

That'll be the end of the lunacy of this thread for me.

I just asked a simple question and was getting good info until Rigpiggy started up the "lunacy".

Wixel Pimp · Post by **Wixel Pimp** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:45 pm

Cat Driver wrote:" Believe what you like, but there are some quality planes, pilots, and 703 companies operating out of YVR right now..."

WTF is going on in aviation when having quality planes and pilots operating in one of Canadas largest aviation centers is so unusual that people marvel at such a thing??

I wasnt marvelling, I was simply stating a fact. For the first time in a longtime, 703 in YVR is in a decent state. Pilots are getting treated well, flying good aircraft and accumulating some good time.

Everyone on this site rips on the 703 operators, but what you should be doing is removing your head from your ass and talk about things you actuallly have some knowledge about.

rigpiggy · Post by **rigpiggy** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:54 am

Navajo dude this is the good info you were talking of before I chimed in. wrt ppc's I think they are the bane of the industry, and if a company cannot afford to train/retain people then it shouldn't be in business

wallypilot wrote:They fly clapped out navajos, and they have a cheyenne. Met the guys on the ramp the odd time...seemed like good folks. I would just make sure you watch out for yourself, and make sure the aircraft is up to your standards, and you'd probably be fine. I can't speak to the actual condition of the aircraft, but they looked pretty tired, as many cargo machines do.

gonefishin' wrote:good group... have a couple ex-Nav Air and Regency PA-31's.
"ADONIS" is no more, its now "APEX"...
They do bag runs for DHL and BDC and the odd pax charter.

CAC is a reputable company with clean safe A/C.

MTO I started at one of those disreputable companies, and have a pretty good understanding of the YVR scene. That said, lunacy and airplanes goes together like fish and a barrel. navair and regency pa31's hopefully they spent about 50k per to bring them up to standards.

marktheone · Post by **marktheone** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 7:33 am

Everyone started at one of this companies. I have heard from "reliable sources" that the aircraft are all in excellent working order. When things are broken they get fixed promptly.

Mark

just curious · Post by **just curious** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:01 am

Good to know.

Granted it's been a couple years since I had the oportunity to wander around the ramp in YVR south. But the trully apalling condition of the Pa31's there at the time... I would rather have flashed up the TCA Viscount than taken off in one of them.

My experience with TC has largely been more pleasant than Cat's, but I really think heads should have rolled amongst the POIs that looked after those operators.

It must have really embarassed decent operators like Harbor Air and Pasco to see idiots like the former Avitat residents perform.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:31 am

J.C., just to keep everything clear here my experiences with TC over the past fifty years has been the same as yours.

Except for the issues with Air West and their Twin Otter operation in 1974/75 and the fiasco with my FTU application a couple of years ago.

In both cases the problem was TC top management failing to follow the regulations that they are supposed to follow.

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:01 am

Rigpiggy wrote:

[/quote] CAC is a reputable company with clean safe A/C.

MTO I started at one of those disreputable companies, and have a pretty good understanding of the YVR scene. That said, lunacy and airplanes goes together like fish and a barrel. navair and regency pa31's hopefully they spent about 50k per to bring them up to standards.[/quote]

That's good to hear. I hope they make a good go of it and bring some respect to small wheel operators in YVR.

Problem is that the clients that these 703's work for, like UPS and DHL, don't care about the finer points of the 703 operators. they will take the lowest bidder. the problem really is deeper than just the local aircraft operator. Companies like DHL & UPS need a wake up call as well. UPS was using Regency for quite a while. I guarantee you that nobody in mgmt at UPS cared that their subcontractor wasn't paying it's fo's.

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:04 am

marktheone · Post by **marktheone** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:19 am

CAC renews all it's pilots at no cost to the pilot. Again, from a "reliable source".

UPS and Co. have seen the light of day to some degree. I have been told (reliable source) that they are offering better ROI for the operators and therefore it is better for the pilots.

Are there any CAC drivers on there that can add their 2 cents?

Mark

Ralliart · Post by **Ralliart** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:01 pm

I'm not a CAC driver, but fellow 703 driver on the south side.

Sounds like the situation on the south side is marginally better than what it was. But nowhere near where it should be.

PPC's still required for employment - not enough profit margin to train your own people. I wonder what will happen when all the ex-PPC'd guys from NavAir & Sonic move on and there isn't a supply of guys available? Southside 703's will start losing $ fast.

The problem really falls back on Transport - If training was required for all new hires at all operators than companies could hire based on individual merits - not PPC because they would have to train them anyway.

703 on the south side is much more than marginally better. At the moment, for Navajo operators I believe it's:

-Eagle Air
-Orca Air
-Craig Air
-Canadian Air Charters

Each of these companies are reputable, pay their pilots, maintain their aircraft, and have a good group of pilots. I know firsthand because I work and fly there everyday. Sometimes mechanical issues come up, and the result is straight to maintenance. Sometimes my company goes mechanical and can't fly, so we use one of the other guys, and sometimes it's them using us due to mechanical. The pilots (and most management) aren't pushing maintenance/weather/duty time etc. just to make a quick buck and undercut the guy next door. Any snags are recorded immediately and arrangements are made to fix them accordingly.

As for requiring PPCs, I was hired 3 months ago with no PPC. The company trained me (and paid me while training) for a PCC, then a month later for a PPC. I was told I was hired based on the merit of my previous charter experience and references. Another new hire in my company was hired by recommendation from his previous employer, and was brought online at no expense of his own. In fact, we were hired without PPC despite there being a couple PPC'd resumes on the desk of management. I know a few other guys from the other three Navajo companies who were also hired and trained with no cost to themselves, including renewals. Occasionally, due to the pace of the industry at the moment, there may be direct entry Captains required with current PPC simply because there may not be any F/Os available to upgrade, but it's not very common. I know for a fact that all 4 of these companies are paying their pilots (both Capt. & F/O) good salaries, and everyone I've associated with seems to be happy.

703 has greatly improved and is in a decent state on the south side, in my opinion of course! I never would have wanted to be a part of the old scene, but I'm glad I'm where I am now.

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:14 pm

marktheone wrote:CAC renews all it's pilots at no cost to the pilot. Again, from a "reliable source".

UPS and Co. have seen the light of day to some degree. I have been told (reliable source) that they are offering better ROI for the operators and therefore it is better for the pilots.

Are there any CAC drivers on there that can add their 2 cents?

Mark

I'm glad it is getting better for the guys as a result to the "light" some of the companies that use you have seen...

Of course you renew your pilots at no charge to them, it should never be any other way again. How about initial PPC though? You said no pay-for-ppc scheme is at play and I believe you. So where do your drivers come from? Is a PPC in hand not the primary requirement for employment? Or do you offer initials to new hires?

The PPC system as it exists BS. You or your CP should be able to determine who you want to fly your planes based on their merits not on a financial decision on saving training costs.

marktheone · Post by **marktheone** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:33 pm

I have been told that if a good driver came throught he door sans PPC he would get one for free at CAC. That being said it hasn't been an issue as there are a fair number of both still at YVR. Good guys/gals with PPC's in hand. Really, from what I've been told, I think that any of the 703 operators would PPC someone if they needed them. Who cares? It's not all that expensive as long as the employee will stick around. (J.H.)

Mark

trey kule · Post by **trey kule** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:49 pm

Edited due to a meaningless contribution.

GearBay Overheat · Post by **GearBay Overheat** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 7:22 pm

I'm not terribly familiar with the hiring practices of NavAir...but other than the infamous Regency/Sonic Blue who actually charged/sold PPCs in Vancouver......nobody that I know of.

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:59 am

marktheone wrote:I have been told

??????????????????????????????????????????

Wixel Pimp · Post by **Wixel Pimp** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:16 pm

marktheone wrote:, Who cares? It's not all that expensive as long as the employee will stick around. (J.H.)

Mark

LOL...possible AVCANADA line of the year....LOL

merlin · Post by **merlin** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:43 pm

Employees will stick around longer when you treat them better and pay then better. $130 for a captain for 10 - 15 hr day, and $75 (or a little more) for a copilot isn't good enough. If you need a copilot then pay then a real wage, or get an auto pilot. An owner just the other day told me he couldn't pay his pilots more, because the company didn't have the money. I think this is complete BS, if you can't pay your pilots on the little money the company makes then why the hell are you running an aviation company???? Put your money somewhere it will make money. If there were half the companies on the yvr south side trying to do the same thing they could charge more and make money. Instead you have too many companies under cutting the guy next door to make pennies.

100LLoser · Post by **100LLoser** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:46 pm

Ouch! $130 for Capt? $75 f/o? 10-15hour days! ( hmmm, $8.67/hr for a capt and $5/hr for a fo. SAD!) Have your pilots started bitching yet or is the company still new? Hope these dudes have the balls to cough up a storm about wages. Do they get any food allowances for their long days? because i remember the days when i use to spend 20-30 bucks for a long day like that on food alone!!! I really hope courier companies really start to pay up a little more for these flights. Do they realize that their ramp and drivers get paid more than the pilots do! Let me tell you the risk of driving a new car and standing on a ramp all day, as oppose to flying a 1970's-80's navajo. The navajos are much safer of course!

Kelowna Pilot · Post by **Kelowna Pilot** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:22 pm

$130 for Capt? $75 f/o? 10-15hour days! ( hmmm, $8.67/hr for a capt and $5/hr for a fo. SAD!)

I may go back into aviation, but only as "hobby" as I've given up on aviation providing a respectable salary.

Hate to say it, but this is the way aviation is going...