Liquid ban

[. ._]

Oh yeah! Well, if the 'ho was jammed full of perfume and hair gel, it would make a mess and stink up Toronto even more!

BAN ALL LIQUIDS EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! or I'll cut you with my nail clippers!!!!!!

Ban the GREAT LAKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK. I feel better now.

-istp

[mellow_pilot]

I can't wait for the day that a terrorist charters a navajo or kingair.. what's going to happen to the industry then?

Why bother? You wouldn't kill enough people or damage enough stuff to make the sort of news headlines that would draw attention to your cause. I suspect that if you smashed a 'Ho into the CN tower, you'd do little more than chip the concrete..

You're not being creative enough. Go for the 'soft target'.

[grimey]

They can't ban lube, though, otherwise letting people on with vibrators would just be cruel:

http://www.zug.com/gab/index.cgi?func=v ... d_id=68619

[I Like Myself]

I can't wait for the day that a terrorist charters a navajo or kingair.. what's going to happen to the industry then?

Why bother? You wouldn't kill enough people or damage enough stuff to make the sort of news headlines that would draw attention to your cause. I suspect that if you smashed a 'Ho into the CN tower, you'd do little more than chip the concrete..

Yeah, but think of the millions of people you'll inconvenience with all the new countermeasures.
That's what terrorism's all about

[Buster]

We were asked by operations the other night on a flight into London to search all flight attendents for gel filled bra's, suffice to say they were all natural.

[Slappy the Squirrel]

I accidently got a jackknife through security in Halifax, while the idiots were busy confiscating people's hand moisturizer!!!!

[Flybabe]

Yeah, but think of the millions of people you'll inconvenience with all the new countermeasures.
That's what terrorism's all about

That's pretty much what I was getting at... it's not whether or not a navajo or kingair could cause much loss of life or destruction ( relatively speaking) but the regulations and controls that would filter down to the small operators would put alot of people out of business.

We are already severly restricting our charter flights into the US due to security and customs measures that are ridiculous.

[RatherBeFlying]

Supposedly the ban on liquids prevents brewing up explosives in the john. Supposedly the Brit plotters were going to mix up some triacetone triperoxide, but googling shows a few obstacles to accomplishing this in an a/c john. You need lots of ice or gel packs to keep the temperature down so that you don't start a fire while mixing the stuff. Then you need a few hours to dry the stuff out so it'll go bang.

That's provided you can get the hydrogen peroxide in the required concentration -- the drug store stuff won't hack it.

TATP is a favorite ingredient in suicide belts; however, there have been a number of "work accidents" brewing up the stuff.

It'd be easier to set something up with laptop batteries.

Anybody remember the ELT lithium battery fiasco? Guess what they're using in laptop batteries.

[CD]

It'd be easier to set something up with laptop batteries.

Anybody remember the ELT lithium battery fiasco? Guess what they're using in laptop batteries.

Lithium will burn and cannot be extinguished by on board fire suppression systems - that's why it is prohibited for transport by air. Lithium-ion batteries, which are used in most rechargable devices including laptop computers, can be extinguished using on board fire suppression systems such as Halon.

Lithium Battery Fire Tests
FAA: No Plans to Ground Laptops

[Guido]

It'd be easier to set something up with laptop batteries.

Anybody remember the ELT lithium battery fiasco? Guess what they're using in laptop batteries.

Lithium will burn and cannot be extinguished by on board fire suppression systems - that's why it is prohibited for transport by air. Lithium-ion batteries, which are used in most rechargable devices including laptop computers, can be extinguished using on board fire suppression systems such as Halon.

Lithium Battery Fire Tests
FAA: No Plans to Ground Laptops

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't halon also extinguish other things... like people?

[CD]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't halon also extinguish other things... like people?

That is a common misperception where crew member training to fight on-board fires has not been thorough enough. Halon 1211 is an agent used in hand-held fire extinguishers that are installed on board transport category aircraft. They are extremely effective fighting fires - better than any other agent available.

The US NTSB noted several problems related to in-flight fire fighting in recommendations issued in January 2002:

The safety board's concerns and recommendations were contained in a Jan. 4 letter to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). That communication also expressed the NTSB's concern about the apparent lack of understanding about the use of Halon as a fire extinguishing agent, as evidenced by the reluctance to use Halon because of its presumed ill effects on breathing. In one of the fire events discussed by the NTSB, an available Halon extinguisher was not used as a consequence of the erroneous belief that it "would take away more oxygen from the cabin." The safety board pointed out that Halon concentrations would remain well below acceptable levels, and that the decomposition products of the fire itself - especially carbon monoxide, smoke and heat - create a far greater hazard.

NTSB Safety Recommendations A-01-83 through -87
FAA AC 120-80 - In-Flight Fires

[Guido]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't halon also extinguish other things... like people?

That is a common misperception where crew member training to fight on-board fires has not been thorough enough. Halon 1211 is an agent used in hand-held fire extinguishers that are installed on board transport category aircraft. They are extremely effective fighting fires - better than any other agent available.

The US NTSB noted several problems related to in-flight fire fighting in recommendations issued in January 2002:

The safety board's concerns and recommendations were contained in a Jan. 4 letter to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). That communication also expressed the NTSB's concern about the apparent lack of understanding about the use of Halon as a fire extinguishing agent, as evidenced by the reluctance to use Halon because of its presumed ill effects on breathing. In one of the fire events discussed by the NTSB, an available Halon extinguisher was not used as a consequence of the erroneous belief that it "would take away more oxygen from the cabin." The safety board pointed out that Halon concentrations would remain well below acceptable levels, and that the decomposition products of the fire itself - especially carbon monoxide, smoke and heat - create a far greater hazard.

NTSB Safety Recommendations A-01-83 through -87
FAA AC 120-80 - In-Flight Fires

Neat, thanks for the info CD!

I suppose the situation that automatically came to mind for me doesn't really apply in an aircraft. I work in a power plant (in IT), so our halon system is actually designed to more or less fill the entire room with halon gas to put out a fire... if you're in there, you're dead. A handheld fire extinguisher would definitely be different, you're right.

[Mike Falk]

Well heres one for you all,
about a week after all this crap unfolded I went to denver from thunder bay via winnipeg.

At winnipeg you go through customs than security to were you than go into a little waiting area that if someone shit there pants the person on the other side is going to gag. On the one side of this room there is the bathrooms and a little restaurant.

As we are getting ready to board this little popper of an RJ to leave they make an announcement that if anyone has purchesed a beverage at the restuarant you will be required to leave it at the preboarding gate.

Alright WHAT THE FACK, my earlier flight from thunder bay I can't bring my tim hortons through security, ok I deal I get coffee on the plane. But no the Aircraft coffee machine is broken. I finally get my first one of the day AFTER I have cleared securty but I still can't take it on board. What am I going to do with this liquid, take a shit in it and throw it at someone.

I just think that this is bull shit thats all.

[g5]

Ths other day in London Luton I had my deoderant, hair gel, shaving cream and toothpaste removed from my flight bag. Also, talking to the fueler he said he had a bottle of water taken from him... nevermind the fact that he drives a truck with 10,000 litres of Jet A1.