No we will not sign that legal trifle Mr. Rowe. You need to address
the people who's lives you have deeply affected. Or are you the
spineless coward that you appear and have demonstrated to be?
This is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
"Order of Canada ", What a national disgrace
GB
Canjet
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako
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green bastard
- Rank 2
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:30 pm
HALIFAX (CP) - Lawyers for CanJet's pilots are reviewing the airline's handling of a major downsizing amid accusations the company is ending its regular flights to dismantle its pilots' union.
Officials with Air Line Pilots Association International met Thursday with just under 100 pilots affected by CanJet's decision to discontinue the regularly scheduled flights and move exclusively into the charter business.
Capt. Scott Bringloe said a legal team is going over the way the low-cost carrier distributed release forms and severance packages to employees earlier this week to see if it was in violation of the Canadian Labour Code.
"The company's restructuring proposals . . . fall significantly short of the requirements of the law," he said after a meeting with the pilots in Halifax, where the airline is based.
"We have no reason to believe that the company's actions are motivated by anything other than anti-union animus and are consistent with the continuing disregard for its legal obligations."
Capt. Dan Adamus said the company left the severance documents in staff mailboxes, giving them a deadline of Sept. 12 to sign them. He said the union had no warning that the layoffs were coming, something the company should have done under the provisions of the code.
Adamus also said the company could be in violation of the code if it's found it attempted to secure voluntary termination through direct negotiation with employees. By not advising the union of the downsizing and by giving employees a deadline to sign the documents, the association says the company is preventing CanJet staff from being involved in restructuring measures.
The association has advised the pilots not to sign the documents, something that will prevent them from collecting severance.
CanJet, which stands to lose about 450 employees in the move, has applied for an exemption under the labour code that, if successful, would allow it to avoid having a restructuring committee.
"That is the big one," said Adamus. "We need to be part of the solution."
The airline stunned the industry Tuesday when it blamed "rising business risks" for its decision to shift its attention to charter flights.
CanJet, owned by IMP Group International Inc., issued a brief statement saying it would offer refunds or alternative travel arrangements for anyone booked on CanJet flights after Sept. 10. It also said many of CanJet's 500 employees would be offered positions with IMP.
A document obtained by a Halifax newspaper suggests 376 people in Halifax will have their employment "terminated," while another 80 in Toronto will be let go.
The airline expanded quickly as it rose from the ashes of the Canada 3000 bankruptcy four years ago, but analysts have said its growth was limited by the fact it was reliant on its main routes in Atlantic Canada.
CanJet first took to the skies with six aircraft in late 2000, but the no-frills carrier reported heavy losses and was shut down less than seven months later when its parent announced it would be sold to Canada 3000 Inc. for $7 million in an all-stock deal.
While CanJet won praise for offering low air fares on its eastern Canadian routes, it simply couldn't fill its planes with enough passengers.
Officials with Air Line Pilots Association International met Thursday with just under 100 pilots affected by CanJet's decision to discontinue the regularly scheduled flights and move exclusively into the charter business.
Capt. Scott Bringloe said a legal team is going over the way the low-cost carrier distributed release forms and severance packages to employees earlier this week to see if it was in violation of the Canadian Labour Code.
"The company's restructuring proposals . . . fall significantly short of the requirements of the law," he said after a meeting with the pilots in Halifax, where the airline is based.
"We have no reason to believe that the company's actions are motivated by anything other than anti-union animus and are consistent with the continuing disregard for its legal obligations."
Capt. Dan Adamus said the company left the severance documents in staff mailboxes, giving them a deadline of Sept. 12 to sign them. He said the union had no warning that the layoffs were coming, something the company should have done under the provisions of the code.
Adamus also said the company could be in violation of the code if it's found it attempted to secure voluntary termination through direct negotiation with employees. By not advising the union of the downsizing and by giving employees a deadline to sign the documents, the association says the company is preventing CanJet staff from being involved in restructuring measures.
The association has advised the pilots not to sign the documents, something that will prevent them from collecting severance.
CanJet, which stands to lose about 450 employees in the move, has applied for an exemption under the labour code that, if successful, would allow it to avoid having a restructuring committee.
"That is the big one," said Adamus. "We need to be part of the solution."
The airline stunned the industry Tuesday when it blamed "rising business risks" for its decision to shift its attention to charter flights.
CanJet, owned by IMP Group International Inc., issued a brief statement saying it would offer refunds or alternative travel arrangements for anyone booked on CanJet flights after Sept. 10. It also said many of CanJet's 500 employees would be offered positions with IMP.
A document obtained by a Halifax newspaper suggests 376 people in Halifax will have their employment "terminated," while another 80 in Toronto will be let go.
The airline expanded quickly as it rose from the ashes of the Canada 3000 bankruptcy four years ago, but analysts have said its growth was limited by the fact it was reliant on its main routes in Atlantic Canada.
CanJet first took to the skies with six aircraft in late 2000, but the no-frills carrier reported heavy losses and was shut down less than seven months later when its parent announced it would be sold to Canada 3000 Inc. for $7 million in an all-stock deal.
While CanJet won praise for offering low air fares on its eastern Canadian routes, it simply couldn't fill its planes with enough passengers.
KR is doing the anti-union squirm to the best of his ability. After 90 days are up from Sept 12 he can reappear on the scene legally with no union in tow. Within the 90 days he has to recognize the certified body ie. ALPA in this instance. This is typical slimeball management, bad faith bargaining tactics in an attempt to break the ranks. United you stand, divided you fail. It's easy to say and tough to do, but stand you must.
For all those wankers out there who buy their PPC's, pay for their training, work for free and prostitute themselves for the sake of some experience wake up!! Sometimes if you want a decent company to work for you have to change the one you're at. That takes standing up for yourselves and showing some resolve.
These guys may succeed. They may lose, but ultimately they're fighting for improvement in our profession. Show them some support. They deserve it.
Best of luck to all of you at Canjet!
For all those wankers out there who buy their PPC's, pay for their training, work for free and prostitute themselves for the sake of some experience wake up!! Sometimes if you want a decent company to work for you have to change the one you're at. That takes standing up for yourselves and showing some resolve.
These guys may succeed. They may lose, but ultimately they're fighting for improvement in our profession. Show them some support. They deserve it.
Best of luck to all of you at Canjet!
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wooden spoon
- Rank 2
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 7:22 pm
well the only problem is he has around 8 to 10 pilots he is keeping on and they are members of ALPA as well,the soon to be inactive members.(terminated pilots).so question is can the workers kept on decertify themselves as ALPA members.without the imput of the layed off/terminated workers.going to get interesting,if thats his game....
The point I was trying to make is that I think CanJet employee's are grasping at straws fighting this from the union angle.prop2jet wrote:Ivanhoe and Airband... the only reason KR and others like him get away with anything is because of people of your mentality mindset do not stand up to them and make them accountable.
I don't believe KR shut it down because of the unions. He owns many unionised companies. Granted , he doesn't like it but he deals with them because he can still make good money. The same can not be said about CanJet. It has always been a struggle and I believe high oil prices are what ultimately caused him to shut it down. He was facing a winter of 70 buck oil and a drastically reduced charter program. Throw in a teetering economy and his decision was not that hard to make.
KR is nothing if not pragmatic. He is a cold , hard numbers businessman. He has proved in the past that he will not flog a dead horse. His history proves that and anyone that went to work for him should have known this. Some did know and took the chance that KR could make an Atlantic Canadian airline work despite the fact that it has never worked before. I'll say this...if anyone could make it work KR could have.
Don't waste your time on negative energy. Learn the lesson and move on. Every single pilot I know from Air Atlantic and CJ1 that did so are all doing fantastically well now. So can you.
So are you saying that every airline needs a union? If so, why? I'm not trying to argumentative.nite_owl wrote:KR is doing the anti-union squirm to the best of his ability. After 90 days are up from Sept 12 he can reappear on the scene legally with no union in tow. Within the 90 days he has to recognize the certified body ie. ALPA in this instance. This is typical slimeball management, bad faith bargaining tactics in an attempt to break the ranks. United you stand, divided you fail. It's easy to say and tough to do, but stand you must.
I fully agree to a point. Is the management of company at blame if pilots prostitute themselves? And what pilot is going to be the first to take a stand.nite_owl wrote:For all those wankers out there who buy their PPC's, pay for their training, work for free and prostitute themselves for the sake of some experience wake up!! Sometimes if you want a decent company to work for you have to change the one you're at. That takes standing up for yourselves and showing some resolve.
Our business is a little screwed up in the sense that to remain competitive, you have to keep costs down. If your costs exceed revenue, you close. Your competion celebrates your demise until someone else hangs his shingle and hires pilots, that are out of work, for peanuts.
I truly believe, and it's been proven before, that you can build a successful company without unions where everybody is happy and gets what they want out of it. Drawing lines in the sand seldom brings good results with either side looking for ways to screw the other. Us and them mentality is so friggin passe. The enemy is in the marketplace, not within.
bmc
Airband,Airband wrote:If you haven't the stomach to handle a bit of turbulence, maybe you're in the wrong business. Grow up and move on.
Truly you are an ignorant dick, I hope that's clear enough for you. Every single pilot at CanJet has been through this (layoff/shutdown) from 3-6 times, and probably has more industry experience that you ever will. But I'm sure your advice is appreciated. Fool.
yup, yeah, uh huh, seems like most other companies are making a go of it...must be this big economic downturn we're in right now eh?! Whatever else could poor KR DO?! I mean everyone else is hurting too right?! Lesse...one of these things is not like the others...I don't believe KR shut it down because of the unions. He owns many unionised companies. Granted , he doesn't like it but he deals with them because he can still make good money. The same can not be said about CanJet. It has always been a struggle and I believe high oil prices are what ultimately caused him to shut it down. He was facing a winter of 70 buck oil and a drastically reduced charter program. Throw in a teetering economy and his decision was not that hard to make.
KR is nothing if not pragmatic. He is a cold , hard numbers businessman. He has proved in the past that he will not flog a dead horse. His history proves that and anyone that went to work for him should have known this. Some did know and took the chance that KR could make an Atlantic Canadian airline work despite the fact that it has never worked before. I'll say this...if anyone could make it work KR could have.
http://www.pilotcareercenter.com/JobRes ... RegionID=1
What a load of bs. About the only accurate comment here is that Rowe is a disgrace to the Order of Canada.
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our_kid2000
- Rank 1
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:44 pm
I was in Canjet's maintenance department.......I was a mechanic there and we were not unionized and we didn't need to.
Honestly, it was fantastic there. They treated us so well there that we didn't need a union. The pay might have been a small bit low but it was certainly as good as Jazz. Everyone there was young, energetic, and positive. Any time there was anything broke on the airplane, it was pretty much fixed that night or certainly before our 4 day round was up. Those were well maintained airplanes and they were spotless from top to bottom.
I used to work at AC and my union there was the IAMAW and it was a terrible union to say the least. They certainly didn't do anything to prevent me from getting screwed over more than once.
In any case, the best maintenance department in Canada is now toast.
Honestly, it was fantastic there. They treated us so well there that we didn't need a union. The pay might have been a small bit low but it was certainly as good as Jazz. Everyone there was young, energetic, and positive. Any time there was anything broke on the airplane, it was pretty much fixed that night or certainly before our 4 day round was up. Those were well maintained airplanes and they were spotless from top to bottom.
I used to work at AC and my union there was the IAMAW and it was a terrible union to say the least. They certainly didn't do anything to prevent me from getting screwed over more than once.
In any case, the best maintenance department in Canada is now toast.
Feel better now?uwillpay wrote: Airband,
Truly you are an ignorant dick, I hope that's clear enough for you. Every single pilot at CanJet has been through this (layoff/shutdown) from 3-6 times, and probably has more industry experience that you ever will. But I'm sure your advice is appreciated. Fool.
Let's see which ones prevail. Those that can put it behind them and focus on the future or those that wallow in the bitterness of the past.
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Rotten Apple #1
- Rank 8
- Posts: 915
- Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:34 am
Hey Airband, why don't you give the fine gents and ladies at CJ (and their significant others) a chance to digest their new found circumstances before giving them your well honed advice?
P.S. three days of reacting and dealing with the shock of it all, ain't exactly "wallowing"...choose your words a little more carefully, would you please?
P.S. three days of reacting and dealing with the shock of it all, ain't exactly "wallowing"...choose your words a little more carefully, would you please?
Well said jonny.. Airband you must not realize what just happened and what the implications are behind it.. None of us are living at home with mom and dad. We all have family's and little ones to feed.. We will move on, for the better I hope.. Best of luck to all of you at Canjetjonny dangerous wrote:Hey Airband, why don't you give the fine gents and ladies at CJ (and their significant others) a chance to digest their new found circumstances before giving them your well honed advice?
P.S. three days of reacting and dealing with the shock of it all, ain't exactly "wallowing"...choose your words a little more carefully, would you please?
Airband, everyone moves on... for the record I do not work at CJ but I can appreciate what they are going through having been down that road myself. However, to suggest that everyone should just pack it in and move on is incorrect. The fact is, and I know this to be true, senior Mgmt refused to recognize ALPA as bargaining agent and continues to do so. At the very least, the expectation is that ALPA ensure that IMP does not get away with breach of the Labour Code, in so doing it ensures that no precendence is set for the next airline that choses to do the same.
As an offside to the topic about comments about "unions", they are only as good as the people that are it's make up and become involved. Where there are instances of unions being a detterence to productivity, you will usually find someone who has their own personal agenda taking hold.
As an offside to the topic about comments about "unions", they are only as good as the people that are it's make up and become involved. Where there are instances of unions being a detterence to productivity, you will usually find someone who has their own personal agenda taking hold.
Its not just the pilots that are hurting.. There is a great deal of other staff effected by the B.S. ...
And some not just recently.
Things were unfair there period. There would not have been a demand for a union if things were not problematic.
Perfect example of unprofessional conduct even at ground level…
In Toronto the GSA's bid by seniority. After a particular bid was completed, I was told I had to take a shift that conveniently was not put into the bid system. I explained that do to several reasons (transportation being one of them), I couldn’t make the scheduled change without a chance to work out some other arrangements.
I was told that if I could not adapt them essentially immediately.. “too bad.”
I asked why they did not put out a new bid .. as is the practice.. they said it was inconvenient. (Apparently loosing my job is not an inconvenience for me.)
When I called HR, I was told that my Manager would do nothing of the sort.. That the woman whom I was talking to known my manager for 20 plus years and when I questioned the situation further was told.. "Perhaps this was just the best thing for me"....
I know from discussing it with few others this was not the first time that someone had this happen to them ... and frankly I am happy to be out of a company that was managed so poorly (at least from my experiences, and granted I think there were great people there.. just in my experiences this manager was not one of them.)
During my exit interview, one question was "why are you leaving" when I looked at the manager, and tried to explain how I felt about the situation, she told me to drop an issue is now irrelevant, and ripped up the exit interview form.
I know to most my little story doesn’t matter, but
My point is the following…
When things such as this, can happen in a company to yes, even the little guys… then there are only bigger problems on the way…especially when people who are supposed to help turn a blind eye.
All in all…
I’m sorry to my fellow CanJetters… I loved working with the majority of you.. and wish you every bit of luck in the future… I miss most of you… and hope that everything works itself out…
Yes Airband
It IS a harsh industry,.. any pilot who had the hours to get there has been around long enough to know that… but it still hurts to give your all to someone’s dream (i.e. KR’s dream of a successful carrier..)… only to realize that what you gave your heart to making a better place to work and develop together.. was never a dream just a hopeful checkmate in which you were only the pawn…
And some not just recently.
Things were unfair there period. There would not have been a demand for a union if things were not problematic.
Perfect example of unprofessional conduct even at ground level…
In Toronto the GSA's bid by seniority. After a particular bid was completed, I was told I had to take a shift that conveniently was not put into the bid system. I explained that do to several reasons (transportation being one of them), I couldn’t make the scheduled change without a chance to work out some other arrangements.
I was told that if I could not adapt them essentially immediately.. “too bad.”
I asked why they did not put out a new bid .. as is the practice.. they said it was inconvenient. (Apparently loosing my job is not an inconvenience for me.)
When I called HR, I was told that my Manager would do nothing of the sort.. That the woman whom I was talking to known my manager for 20 plus years and when I questioned the situation further was told.. "Perhaps this was just the best thing for me"....
I know from discussing it with few others this was not the first time that someone had this happen to them ... and frankly I am happy to be out of a company that was managed so poorly (at least from my experiences, and granted I think there were great people there.. just in my experiences this manager was not one of them.)
During my exit interview, one question was "why are you leaving" when I looked at the manager, and tried to explain how I felt about the situation, she told me to drop an issue is now irrelevant, and ripped up the exit interview form.
I know to most my little story doesn’t matter, but
My point is the following…
When things such as this, can happen in a company to yes, even the little guys… then there are only bigger problems on the way…especially when people who are supposed to help turn a blind eye.
All in all…
I’m sorry to my fellow CanJetters… I loved working with the majority of you.. and wish you every bit of luck in the future… I miss most of you… and hope that everything works itself out…
Yes Airband
It IS a harsh industry,.. any pilot who had the hours to get there has been around long enough to know that… but it still hurts to give your all to someone’s dream (i.e. KR’s dream of a successful carrier..)… only to realize that what you gave your heart to making a better place to work and develop together.. was never a dream just a hopeful checkmate in which you were only the pawn…
Lost Cessna Pilot: "Big airport with a little Cessna 150 overhead, please identify yourself!"
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on my way home from work tonight i drove northbound on the 427. as many of you know it is just of the end of the 24s in YYZ. in line for take off on 24r was a Canjet 737. im glad i had a chance to see you boys and girls one more time before your send off. best wishes to all you in the future.
regards
Tyler
regards
Tyler
Just an average man doing heroes work
I hate to hear when people say, “get over it and move on”, kind of chaps my ass. It’s not as easy as walking across the apron and getting another job. It will mean a move for most of them not willing to going back to flying at PAL or PEI air. Show alittle compassion here.
I said it before, and I’ll say it again, this was a union bust job.
Those poor men/women didn’t even have a dental plan, let alone decent pay so what does K.R. expect? A group of educated, motivated employees will only be stepped on for so long before becoming proactive.
Good on the CJ pilots for standing up for themselves, and if the company can’t accommodate alittle then fu@k em
. If the company was that bad off (yeah right) in the best of times, better now then when the doors are shut elsewhere.
I said it before, and I’ll say it again, this was a union bust job.
Those poor men/women didn’t even have a dental plan, let alone decent pay so what does K.R. expect? A group of educated, motivated employees will only be stepped on for so long before becoming proactive.
Good on the CJ pilots for standing up for themselves, and if the company can’t accommodate alittle then fu@k em
. If the company was that bad off (yeah right) in the best of times, better now then when the doors are shut elsewhere.The feet you step on today might be attached to the ass you're kissing tomorrow.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
po'dcjer wrote:Hey Kag, thanks for all the support....
Well........... many thanks to the CanJet guys and gals up front who provided myself and my family with many safe flights in and around the maritimes. You are a credit to your profession and wishing you all the very best in the years ahead.
I would think you all will have new jobs within this year. Highly experienced drivers with jet time and 705 time will be an asset to any company. Maybe now those wanting to get on with AC will now get a chance. Good luck in the upcomming interviews.
The feet you step on today might be attached to the ass you're kissing tomorrow.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
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Snowroller
- Rank 3
- Posts: 135
- Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:30 pm
- Location: CYUX/CYYT
I flew on Canjet from YOW-YUL-YHZ-YYT yesterday & was very impressed at how the crew were in their duties when knowing they were working their last flights with Canjet & how they kept their chins up during it all.I wished them well as I was departing & know that I flew with some of the best aviation professionals in Canada that day,hat`s off to you.
