Air Canada new hires - How many more next year?

helinas · Post by **helinas** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:23 am

Does anybody have the inside scoop on how many if any more pilots will get hired next year at Air Canada?

thanks

helinas

North of You · Post by **North of You** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:24 pm

At this time they are sitting at 250 hired. Still say that by the time all is said and done, the tolal will be around 700.

helinas · Post by **helinas** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:08 pm

So another 450 will be hired next year?

TFE731 · Post by **TFE731** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:21 pm

Apologizing in advance! Sorry, couldn't resist!

TFE731 · Post by **TFE731** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:08 am

helinas wrote:So another 450 will be hired next year?

On a serious note though, the number 600-700 has been floating around the offices for some time. But I suspect that the remaining 450 will not be acquired in just one year alone. I suspect this will take the course of somewhere between 2-4 yrs keeping in mind that we have dreamiliners arriving and to be staffed in 2010.

balls · Post by **balls** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:26 am

Even when the bid was published, it was mentioned that the horizon was further forward than previous bids.

The 777 will be a bottleneck, that is plain to see right now. My bet is that for some major glitches crewing those arrivals next summer.

There needs to be bodies at the bottom to allow everyone to shuffle up. They aren't there. The hiring is supposed to about 10-12 every two weeks. I see the pic of the Sept 4 class there were only 8?

North of You · Post by **North of You** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:07 am

Its hard to staff an airline when they keep rejecting some very well qualified people. Would someone ask the hiring comity to explain some of their decisions. I keep hearing more stories of rejection than I do of acceptance. It’s one thing to reject a new bee with no track record on the count that his/her psyche eval didn’t cut it. It’s another thing to reject a 10K pilot with degree and a flawless record for the same reason. I mean, if this fellow was flunked out on the psyche eval, or the cog test, please explain the 10K hours they accumulated? Luck?

Flame away….

monkeyspankmasterflex · Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:25 am

Do the rumours of a reduction bid have any foundation? Any chance the current hiring spree could slow or stop in the short term?

hercdriver · Post by **hercdriver** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:39 am

Good post North of You.
I have been wondering the same thing since I received my PFO letter and hearing of at least two others with as much experience as I, receiving theirs as well. It is one thing to be turned down when there are only a few jobs to be had and the competition is high, however as we all know AC requires at least 400-700 more pilots. Surely, I must be at least as capable as the 400-700 that will be hired.
I applied with over 20 years military aviation experience with a great record and a boot full of qualifications. I felt I did well on the COG and the interview, waited 2.5 mths, yet still the PFO and no reason why! They were polite and added I could re-apply in 6 mths.
It seems it will always be a mystery on how AC hires. To me it seems flawed. Of course this may seem a likely response from me as I did not get hired but I am sure that others out there (even those hired) have the same opinion.

I wish all those in the hiring process all the best.

For those in the same boat as me, I would love to hear about your experience.

Dockjock · Post by **Dockjock** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:44 am

They can't accept everyone. But certainly lots of really good people have been turned away, and a few morons hired on. Nobody can explain it.

But the fact is that for an entry level position like EMJ F/O, you don't really need 10,000 hrs to do that job well. Saying someone is overqualified, to me, has always been the biggest cop out excuse ever, but that is probably a factor at play for someone with (say) a decade of jet flying already behind them. 2500 hrs is in reality more than enough time to be trainable, and AC seems to be shooting slightly higher than that. Sounds to me like the majority of those hired are in the 4000-7000 hr range. Is it fair? No, but when viewed through the cold, hard, spectacles of airline flight ops and HR people- it does make a bit of sense.

TFE731 · Post by **TFE731** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:44 am

monkeyspankmasterflex wrote:Do the rumours of a reduction bid have any foundation? Any chance the current hiring spree could slow or stop in the short term?

We are expecting a reduction bid within weeks but it will serve to move back some of the higher end upgrades that occured primarily onto the B777. As for EMB's and 320's they will still require plenty of hiring to keep up on these aircraft. At least this is the conclusion I have developed so far in this matter.

North of You · Post by **North of You** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:58 am

Dockjock wrote: for an entry level position like EMJ F/O, you don't really need 10,000 hrs to do that job well.

I understand what you are saying. But, aviation seems to be the only industry where being overqualified is somehow seen as a negative.
In "my" company, if you are applying for the position of shipper-receiver, and you happen to have a PhD in astrophysics and are working at NASA….. So much the better. Welcome aboard! I would anticipate that they would be able to figure this job out without any problems due to their track record, and that will enable to let me sleep well at night. I know that a high school drop-out would suffice. But if I can do better than that, it would be in the best interest of the company in general to do so.
But not in aviation.

Traf · Post by **Traf** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:56 am

LOL Listen to the guys that didin't get hired come up with excuses. Let me break it to you gently boys. They are not in a shortage of pilot situation. They need 500 guys and the ones that meet the minimum requirements are a dime a dozen. By this time next year there will be another 500 guys with 1000 hours more in their log books to fill the gap. Not to mention, the 500 are not neaded tomorow as they can;t even keep up with the ones they have now.

IF, they run low (big IF) they they will simply re-interview all those passed by this round. I guarantee you and all the other rejects will come running back.

It is obvious that it is not strictly time, education or a combination of the 2 that they are looking for. This new hiring practice is different than the old days and maybe they are not getting the best pilots out there. On the other hand, maybe they are getting the best employees. WIth all the automation out there you need less of a pilot than you do system manager.

TypeRated · Post by **TypeRated** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:03 pm

Is there any truth that candidates need 500 mpic to get an interview?

balls · Post by **balls** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:11 pm

North of You wrote:Its hard to staff an airline when they keep rejecting some very well qualified people. Would someone ask the hiring comity to explain some of their decisions. I keep hearing more stories of rejection than I do of acceptance. It’s one thing to reject a new bee with no track record on the count that his/her psyche eval didn’t cut it. It’s another thing to reject a 10K pilot with degree and a flawless record for the same reason. I mean, if this fellow was flunked out on the psyche eval, or the cog test, please explain the 10K hours they accumulated? Luck?

Flame away….

There is no way the average person on this forum can explain the policies of AC -- in hiring or anything else -- most of the time.

balls · Post by **balls** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:19 pm

TFE731 wrote:
monkeyspankmasterflex wrote:Do the rumours of a reduction bid have any foundation? Any chance the current hiring spree could slow or stop in the short term?
We are expecting a reduction bid within weeks but it will serve to move back some of the higher end upgrades that occured primarily onto the B777. As for EMB's and 320's they will still require plenty of hiring to keep up on these aircraft. At least this is the conclusion I have developed so far in this matter.

I call BS, RP - Rumour and Posturing, imo. I've run down some of the BS a bit myself out of interest, and to some good sources. I will be shocked if it is anything by status quo, possible minor adjustments down on 320, but most likely there will be some increases on 340 - maybe 777.

My thought about the 320 down would be an attempt to force people to bid that, but it would be a mistake, and backwards of what they should do.

But, who knows what the ivory tower has in mind. The bid and the result, like the past few, really never come to reality.

North of You · Post by **North of You** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:40 pm

Traf wrote:LOL Listen to the guys that didin't get hired come up with excuses. Let me break it to you gently boys. They are not in a shortage of pilot situation. They need 500 guys and the ones that meet the minimum requirements are a dime a dozen. By this time next year there will be another 500 guys with 1000 hours more in their log books to fill the gap. Not to mention, the 500 are not neaded tomorow as they can;t even keep up with the ones they have now.

IF, they run low (big IF) they they will simply re-interview all those passed by this round. I guarantee you and all the other rejects will come running back.

It is obvious that it is not strictly time, education or a combination of the 2 that they are looking for. This new hiring practice is different than the old days and maybe they are not getting the best pilots out there. On the other hand, maybe they are getting the best employees. WIth all the automation out there you need less of a pilot than you do system manager.

Go away, wanker.

Traf · Post by **Traf** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:58 pm

WHAW!!! I want my mommy!

North of You · Post by **North of You** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:15 pm

Fool.

Traf · Post by **Traf** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:31 pm

At least I am not the clown on the net saying AC won;t be able to staff their airline because I didin't get hired. Whah, I have a lot time, whah, I was in the military, whah I have an education whah whah whah!!!

They can't hire everyone that they intreview so someone one has to be on the no list. Seems like they have made some good choices thus far eh sport!

Crying towel posted here! SNif sniff!!!

balls · Post by **balls** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:58 pm

Traf wrote:At least I am not the clown on the net saying AC won;t be able to staff their airline because I didin't get hired. Whah, I have a lot time, whah, I was in the military, whah I have an education whah whah whah!!!

They can't hire everyone that they intreview so someone one has to be on the no list. Seems like they have made some good choices thus far eh sport!

Crying towel posted here! SNif sniff!!!

I don't get the impression that is the gist of the post. You seem to imply a sense of entitlement that I'm not getting from the posts. It seems to be more about confusion, imo. You nor I can solve the dilemma for these folks that want to work for AC, though, unless you are super well connect to the AC Matrix, Traf.

At the best of times I'm confused -- more to do with Alzheimer's maybe

but AC does have an opaque system in many regards, even for insiders. This whole HR thing is fairly new, so the age old standards don't seem to apply.

North of You · Post by **North of You** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:39 pm

balls wrote:
I don't get the impression that is the gist of the post. You seem to imply a sense of entitlement that I'm not getting from the posts. It seems to be more about confusion, imo. You nor I can solve the dilemma for these folks that want to work for AC, though, unless you are super well connect to the AC Matrix, Traf.

At the best of times I'm confused -- more to do with Alzheimer's maybe but AC does have an opaque system in many regards, even for insiders. This whole HR thing is fairly new, so the age old standards don't seem to apply.

Thank you . That is what is being discussed here from where I stand. None of the pilots that have been turned down have ever said anything about being entitled to anything. All of them have gotten to where they are now through hard work and dedication. They would just like to know what it is that seems to be required by AC so that they can fix what was lacking during their first interview, and fix it before they hopefully have another kick at the cat.

Z_Pilot · Post by **Z_Pilot** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:14 pm

So it looks like that AC is declining a big portion of those whom they interview, eh? I hate how the airline industry does that, don't call tons of people for a job if you have no intention of hiring them. With that said, it seems that the morons always slip through the cracks!

Oh well.

What do you guys think, they hire 50% of those whom they invite to an interview?

See my related thread:

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=22287

Z

RB-211 · Post by **RB-211** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:12 am

The fact remains that supply far exceeds the demand at the top of the tree in Canadian Avaition. Air Canada is the best job going and the result is not everone gets in. It sounds as though the selection process has developed in to a modestly level playing field for all. Good people will get turned away and some retards will slip through. It happens.

If I was trying to get in to AC I would be concentrating heavily on the selection process and not worrying about who has or has not been successfull. That being said if I was one of the many who was turned away I may be questioning the very high success rate of candidates hired early in the recruitment drive. Dig a bit on that one and it may make you cringe, laugh or cry depending on your state of mind. Of course I don't want to start that debate again.

2low · Post by **2low** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:17 am

[quote="RB-211"] Air Canada is the best job going.

Oh Im not so sure of that.