Jack Layton and Afghanistan

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Dust Devil
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Post by Dust Devil »

Icebound wrote:
Exactly ... that, too, is correct.

But so far, on the one major issue he had to deal with, the Israel-Lebanon war, he HAS shown himself to be "just like Bush".
Why do people say he is just like Bush? There are other leaders that opposed lebanons embracing of terrorist organizations. Why doesn't Harper get grouped with those guys? The reason is because that doesn't stir the fearmongering shitpot that the socialists like.
On some other issues, politically-popular-but-economically-senseless-tax-cuts, gay issues, etc., ...he has also shown his principles to be similar to Bush's.
I suppose your right. hmmmmmm seems to me using these kinds of arguments you could say that since the Liberals feel 14 year old kids should be able to have sex with anyone they choose that Liberal principals could be said to be similar to the views of Peter Whitmore.



:roll: [/quote]
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Hedley
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Post by Hedley »

This is sure to drive the lefties wild, but ...

I sincerely believe that Stephen Harper is the finest Prime Minister Canada has had in several lifetimes. Despite the slimmest margin of a minority government, he is doing all the right stuff, imho.

Honestly, compare him to the slimy Jean Cretin or Blowhard Mulroney, or the vapid Paul Martin, or the clearly psycho William Lyin Mackenzie King, who used to govern the country upon what he learned in seances, talking to the spirits of his dead mother and dog (I wish I was making that part up, but unfortunately, I am not).

Compare him to that idiot Joe Clark. Compared to Steven Harper, Joe Clark had the brains of Maggie Trudeau. And although PET was inarguably one of the brightest citizens of his country of his era, the same could probably be said of Hitler and Stalin and perhaps, in a bit of a stretch, Richard Nixon.

It's not just about intelligence, as Richard Nixon showed us. You might not like him, or agree with all of his opinions (I don't) but you cannot deny that Steven Harper has more integrity than all of the 10 previous Prime Ministers of Canada combined, which the government of Canada is sorely in need of.

Steven Harper doesn't act like a glad-handling, smooth, slick-talking, lying, thieving politician, and that upsets the lefties, I understand. They like their leaders slick.

Oh well. Personally, I don't think Canadians deserve a leader of the caliber of Steven Harper. Why he wastes his time so, when he could be accomplishing so much elsewhere, will remain a mystery.
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Icebound
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Post by Icebound »

Dust Devil wrote:
Icebound wrote:
Exactly ... that, too, is correct.

But so far, on the one major issue he had to deal with, the Israel-Lebanon war, he HAS shown himself to be "just like Bush".
Why do people say he is just like Bush? There are other leaders that opposed lebanons embracing of terrorist organizations. Why doesn't Harper get grouped with those guys? The reason is because that doesn't stir the fearmongering shitpot that the socialists like.
On some other issues, politically-popular-but-economically-senseless-tax-cuts, gay issues, etc., ...he has also shown his principles to be similar to Bush's.
I suppose your right. hmmmmmm seems to me using these kinds of arguments you could say that since the Liberals feel 14 year old kids should be able to have sex with anyone they choose that Liberal principals could be said to be similar to the views of Peter Whitmore.



:roll:
you see... I have been trying to tell you in several posts that there are policies from all of the Harper, Liberal, and Layton camps that I may like, and policies from each of these camps that I may dislike. But you keep insisting on this "socialists" tag as if every "left wing" policy proposal is going to resurrect Marx, Lenin and Stalin all at once.

The Liberals age-of-consent legislation is certainly open to debate, but it is hardly the pedophile magnet that you imply. You might want to check out both sides of the issue here:
http://www.aboutkidshealth.ca/ofhc/news/SRCR/5330.asp

Bush would not criticize Israel, Harper would not criticize Israel.
Bush cut taxes which economists disagreed with, Harper cut the GST which economists disagreed with.
Bush is not in favor of gay marriage, Harper is not in favour of gay marriage.

Whitmore had sex with children; Not in your wildest fantasies can you convince yourself that the Liberals, as a matter of policy, favour adult sex with children.

And I did not say "he is just like Bush". I pointed out just 3 issues on which he has shown to be so.

The fearmongering shitpot is not the exclusive domain of the left, as exemplified by your pedophile implication above. Who keeps throwing around the "socialist" tag at every opportunity? Who keeps telling me that the terrorists are going to get me, should I dare vote for those pansy Liberals or NDP? Who keeps telling me we are not tough enough on crime, although StatCan tells me crime has been steadily declining and is the lowest it has been in years?




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Dust Devil
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Post by Dust Devil »

you see... I have been trying to tell you in several posts that there are policies from all of the Harper, Liberal, and Layton camps that I may like, and policies from each of these camps that I may dislike. But you keep insisting on this "socialists" tag as if every "left wing" policy proposal is going to resurrect Marx, Lenin and Stalin all at once.
Why do you feel socialist is a bad word? I don't bitch about being called a conservative.
The Liberals age-of-consent legislation is certainly open to debate, but it is hardly the pedophile magnet that you imply.
I didn't imply a damn thing. I just pointed out that your argument about Harper being like Bush can also be used the other way and that these style arguments that you try and use do nothing but fearmonger.
Bush would not criticize Israel, Harper would not criticize Israel.
For what? Lebanon clearly attacked first. What is there to criticize? If some guy walks up to another guy in the bar and sucker punches him then proceeds to get his ass kicked would you criticize the guy who got sucker punched?
Bush cut taxes which economists disagreed with, Harper cut the GST which economists disagreed with.
These broad statements once again do not prove anything. "economists disagreed with" there we're also economists that agreed with it. Political groups can always find an "expert" who belives in their cause or is willing to further their agenda for the right price.
Bush is not in favor of gay marriage, Harper is not in favour of gay marriage.
Bush and Harper both breath oxygen too OMG stop the presses. Has Harper said that he will put an end to gay marriage? No he has said that he would like to leave it to a free vote. Bush hasn't offered up that kind of liberal thinking. Harper doesn't personally like it and that is fine. That is his right. He is hardly strong arming anyone to have gay marriage banned. If the majority feel that gay marriage should stand then everything will be fine.

Whitmore had sex with children; Not in your wildest fantasies can you convince yourself that the Liberals, as a matter of policy, favour adult sex with children.


Is a 14 year old a child or an adult? Does the law as the Liberals left it allow for a 30 year old man to have sex with a 14 year old girl? They may not favor it but they don't do what they can to stop it either. Ahhh but mabe sex with kids is a civil liberty that needs protecting.


And I did not say "he is just like Bush". I pointed out just 3 issues on which he has shown to be so.
So he's not like Bush but he appears to be so? I don't get it.
The fearmongering shitpot is not the exclusive domain of the left, as exemplified by your pedophile implication above.


Nice to see your allowed to fearmonger as long as no one else does.
Who keeps throwing around the "socialist" tag at every opportunity?
Like I just said why do you feel socialist is a bad word?
Who keeps telling me that the terrorists are going to get me,
Not me
Who keeps telling me we are not tough enough on crime
So I guess we got crime beat. Tell that to the Miller family and the many others who are violated by repeat sex offenders.
Although StatCan tells me crime has been steadily declining and is the lowest it has been in years?
Why do Liberals....er....I mean sociali......er nevermind......

Why do some people who arn't conservatives (there is that better, no hurt feelings there) Feel that stats canada is the gospel. Statistics can be manipulated and interpreted a number of ways. If statistics show that 40% of fatal car wrecks are caused by drunk drivers then 60% of fatal car wrecks are caused by sober drivers. Obviously that statistic is bogus when interpreted that way but it just goes to show that statistics are not gospel.

One statistic that I think is worth looking at is 100% of violent criminals who are left in jail for the rest of their lives do not reoffend. When rehab centers can quote those kind of numbers then you can talk to me about releasing these people.

Leave 'em in jail and put 'em on a chain gang.
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Glen Quagmire
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Post by Glen Quagmire »

Most of the hardcore right wingers on this board live in a fact vacuum it would seem. There is a new word for it, it's called Truthiness. Truthiness is 'What I say is right, and [nothing] anyone else says could possibly be true, truth based on feeling and not fact.

Anyway it's a fact that tougher prison sentences and the death penalty are not a deterrent to crime. They are a kneejerk reaction to crime, an easy way out. Tougher sentences sounds good but it does little. More police on the other hand is an easy way to bring down crime, this has shown to be an effective way in lowering crime. The other ways are unfortunately a lot of work, you have to answer questions of the WHY variety first, and those can be challenging to answer, while not yielding short term political gains.
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Wilbur
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Post by Wilbur »

It's been discussed on here plenty of times before, but I will again refresh your memories as somebody who has been in middle management in the justice system for 25 years.

Potential punishment does little to deter crime. Believing you will get caught is the deterent, hence, more effective policing will deter crime.

Longer sentences that include rehabilitative programming reduce recidivism, especially with the worst offenders. Too short sentences do not give the corrections system enough time to effectively work with and affect change with offenders. Minor, petty offenders mostly change their own behaviour regardless of the sentence imposed.

Bottom line, more police and longer sentences together will reduce crime. Anything less is a half measure.

North Shore.....ah, you noticed.
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scubasteve
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Post by scubasteve »

I have to agree with Hedley about Harper. He does seem to be doing some good things and watching him speak after the shooting in Montreal it was obvious to me he wasn't reading a script but speaking on his own from his true feelings. He can still screw it up but so far so good in my opinion.
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Icebound
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Post by Icebound »

Glen Quagmire wrote:Most of the hardcore right wingers on this board live in a fact vacuum it would seem. There is a new word for it, it's called Truthiness. Truthiness is 'What I say is right, and [nothing] anyone else says could possibly be true, truth based on feeling and not fact.

Speaking of failures in intelligence-gathering :!:

Did they not know who Colbert was? How did they let him get in the door, let alone speak ... for 24 minutes :lol:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7758574879


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Post by hazatude »

LOL...That's why the USA is the country to back!

They will let that happen. Try that in Iran...
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Icebound
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Post by Icebound »

hazatude wrote:LOL...That's why the USA is the country to back!

They will let that happen. Try that in Iran...
Actually, I would much rather have Canada lead the USA, instead of backing it. They could profit from our lead on quite a few social issues, but even if they don't want to follow, it is no reason for us to change our course.

Yeah... given the choices, the USA IS the country to "back", but when they start heading over the cliff, we might do well to ask a question or two... at the very least, maybe stand back just a little... ... :wink:

As for the Colbert incident ... they "let it happen", but does anybody seriously believe that they would have, had they known???

On the general issue of free speech,...is it the administration defending free speech, or is it the people refusing to allow its restriction? The administration has been known to refuse legitimate questions from administration-critical reporters, and appears to limit its informal interviews only to friendly FOX??? :?:



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politically_incorrect
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Post by politically_incorrect »

Wilbur wrote:Longer sentences that include rehabilitative programming reduce recidivism, especially with the worst offenders.
Are there studies, independant of the justice system, that back this up? That is certainly not my understanding of what the justice system has demonstrated that it is able to achieve. Seems to me it is more like "once an asshole, always an asshole", and there's not much that can be done to change that.
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Post by mellow_pilot »

politically_incorrect wrote:
Wilbur wrote:Longer sentences that include rehabilitative programming reduce recidivism, especially with the worst offenders.
Are there studies, independant of the justice system, that back this up? That is certainly not my understanding of what the justice system has demonstrated that it is able to achieve. Seems to me it is more like "once an asshole, always an asshole", and there's not much that can be done to change that.
Yes, cause what you see on the nightly news and in the tabloids is the whole story, complete, unabridged and unbiased. :roll:
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