When you start a new job...or any other relationship...how important is your "WORD"? If you tell a company you "will give them a year", how much weight do YOU put on your promise? I guess this is where this whole reason for "training bonds"?
Thoughts?
Cheers.
Your WORD....
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
Good topic,
Myself the word is everything, I go by the philosophy that you are only as good as your word hence why when I sign on with a company I intend on sticking out my full tenier.
I have been with my current employer for a year now, when I went captain my contract was renewed for another year, I have no intensions of leaving before this hence why I have not sent out one resume to anyone else, even though the movement may dry up by the time my contract is up.(prays it doesn't).
The industry is to small as far as I am concerned to be screwing employers over, and maybe if everyone had that attitude we wouldn't have the training bonds.
Just my 2 cents
Myself the word is everything, I go by the philosophy that you are only as good as your word hence why when I sign on with a company I intend on sticking out my full tenier.
I have been with my current employer for a year now, when I went captain my contract was renewed for another year, I have no intensions of leaving before this hence why I have not sent out one resume to anyone else, even though the movement may dry up by the time my contract is up.(prays it doesn't).
The industry is to small as far as I am concerned to be screwing employers over, and maybe if everyone had that attitude we wouldn't have the training bonds.
Just my 2 cents
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water wings
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word: very important. even though the folks to whom your word was given are running a business, and may have to alter their word as business dictates, i do believe keeping one's promise does reflect well on an individual. That being said, i know of a lot of phoquetards that get ahead by zigging and zagging, and breaking every promise known to man... some have succeeded so far, others have had it bite them in the ass - and more ass biting to come should the industry topple like it did 5 years ago.
There is an extent to this "keeping one's word at all cost", example: Say you give a company your word, but bases change, aircraft are moved, positions are eliminated...well, you do have to take care of yourself as well.
The grass is not always greener over there, and don't just go accepting a job willy nilly without really thinking about it, and the same goes for making a promise. If all you think you can realistically adhere to is 6 months and they ask for a 2 year commitment, well, i do think compromises need to be made, and the intentions of both parties laid out on the table.
Yes, i do think the days of the truthfull handshake are gone, and hence, we have training bonds. Money talks, and even whispers.
There is an extent to this "keeping one's word at all cost", example: Say you give a company your word, but bases change, aircraft are moved, positions are eliminated...well, you do have to take care of yourself as well.
The grass is not always greener over there, and don't just go accepting a job willy nilly without really thinking about it, and the same goes for making a promise. If all you think you can realistically adhere to is 6 months and they ask for a 2 year commitment, well, i do think compromises need to be made, and the intentions of both parties laid out on the table.
Yes, i do think the days of the truthfull handshake are gone, and hence, we have training bonds. Money talks, and even whispers.
Depends on the situation really.
Summer 'job'-like employment? You can do what you want really
Career-wise? VERY important not to burn your bridges, especially in an industry such as aviation where progressive movement is pretty core..
However, my philosophy is do what YOU need to do in order to gain the best chances and opportunities for yourself.. and nobody else (this doesnt apply to all areas of life, just when it comes to career advancement). Its a rat race out there.. and honestly, you either keep up any way you can or get left behind. Upon reading this it might seem like my opinion is all for just cutting and leaving upon getting another 'better' job offer, and in some situations that may be the best opportunity.. in others? no. It all depends on the situation.. and the bottom line should be DONT BURN YOUR BRIDGES!!!!
But we are talking about your life here
the decision is yours
Summer 'job'-like employment? You can do what you want really
Career-wise? VERY important not to burn your bridges, especially in an industry such as aviation where progressive movement is pretty core..
However, my philosophy is do what YOU need to do in order to gain the best chances and opportunities for yourself.. and nobody else (this doesnt apply to all areas of life, just when it comes to career advancement). Its a rat race out there.. and honestly, you either keep up any way you can or get left behind. Upon reading this it might seem like my opinion is all for just cutting and leaving upon getting another 'better' job offer, and in some situations that may be the best opportunity.. in others? no. It all depends on the situation.. and the bottom line should be DONT BURN YOUR BRIDGES!!!!
But we are talking about your life here
the decision is yours
If you're at the end of the rainbow and your last move is to AC(and that's where you want to end) I don't think many people will have a second thought about dropping their current employer for the "big move."Career-wise? VERY important not to burn your bridges, especially in an industry such as aviation where progressive movement is pretty core..
However, my philosophy is do what YOU need to do in order to gain the best chances and opportunities for yourself..
As for all the other latteral jumps("zig zags" as mentioned) it's upto you, do you want to take your PPC and run?
Also very rarely will an employer not give you some sort of "promises" of their own, and frankly if the job post says, "flying this and that" and makes no mention of cleaning his car and his hangar. Once you give your word to "stick around" as soon as he tells you to pick up the mop, I don't believe you should be held to your "promise," and I don't mean a 1 time thing, I mean a habitual clean this and do that out of your job description.
Like Sully's Corporate Posts, your duties will entail "50% desk work and 50% flying" that's nice, but if it's an operator that doesn't say that or mention that, all bets are off...
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Cat Driver
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Your word, as in how honest and trustworthy you are is the real you.
To attempt to sanitize the importance of not keeping your word with the excuse the person / s you are dealing with is untrustworthy is not an excuse for not keeping your word.
To attempt to sanitize the importance of not keeping your word with the excuse the person / s you are dealing with is untrustworthy is not an excuse for not keeping your word.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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rotorfloat
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Lockwoodian
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Here's an interesting moral dilemma:
A thief steals ten million dollars in cash, from someone (this is important) of equally low morals: say the government, or perhaps an insurance company.
The thief runs down an alley at you, carrying the cash in a suitcase, waving a gun and screaming at you that if you don't get out of his way, he is going to shoot and kill you.
At which point he trips, bangs his head, and is rendered temporarily unconscious.
Do you:
1) walk away, because you don't want to "get involved", or
2) take the suitcase and return it to it's original owners (goverment or insurance company), or
3) keep the suitcase and blow it all on hookers and chinese food?
A thief steals ten million dollars in cash, from someone (this is important) of equally low morals: say the government, or perhaps an insurance company.
The thief runs down an alley at you, carrying the cash in a suitcase, waving a gun and screaming at you that if you don't get out of his way, he is going to shoot and kill you.
At which point he trips, bangs his head, and is rendered temporarily unconscious.
Do you:
1) walk away, because you don't want to "get involved", or
2) take the suitcase and return it to it's original owners (goverment or insurance company), or
3) keep the suitcase and blow it all on hookers and chinese food?
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Cat Driver
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" Safety first, word second "
You must work in Tower C TCCA.
Safety first is the mantra with zero tangible results except your pay cheque and bonuses.
Having honesty and integrity will mean expulsion from the group.
You must work in Tower C TCCA.
Safety first is the mantra with zero tangible results except your pay cheque and bonuses.
Having honesty and integrity will mean expulsion from the group.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
The concept of employee loyalty has really been taken to a bizarre level in aviation recently. Almost to the point that if one accepts a position, one is obligated to stay for a certain period of time no matter what the conditions, or better opportunities in the meantime, because they gave their "word". Perhaps also because many companies are percieved to not be able to afford the turnover- thereby creating a scenario whereby the pilot is responsible somehow for the company's poor financial conditions. BOGUS!
The industry is in a virtually perpetual employer's market on the pilot side- supply will almost certainly exceed demand until the end of time. And yet still, with pilots "a dime a dozen", employers still cry foul when one must be replaced. Having your cake and eating it too comes to mind. Restated, if there is an unlimited supply, the price must therefore be so low the the replacement costs become almost negligible. And still we're supposed to feel guilty about leaving? Supply is definitely down from where it was 3 years ago when 4000 hr pilots were flying Navajos- we've just become so accustomed to absolute sh&t conditions, that when they improve to merely cr@p it feels like the lottery. But it ain't that bad, despite the protestations and gesticulations of some. My former company is currently in somewhat of a state of panic regarding pilot retention. Seems to me they've tried everything- direct entry captains, training bonds, hand wringing- EXCEPT raising the pay! Until the pay comes out of the industry's basement, I have a hard time believing there is any problem whatsoever.
Anyhow, I agree that jobs should not be hopped or zig zagged with little thought to the consequences to one's career, but this slave-like mentality that we somehow owe a degree of loyalty to airlines (Ma and Pa's flight school right up to Air Canada) when similar reciprocation is absent- aren't we constantly reminded that the industry doesn't "owe" us a living? Well I don't buy it anymore.
My word to my wife, my family, and my friends, is like gold. In business, especially this one, you gotta strike while the iron is hot and grab all you can because next year- heck next month- you may not have the chance.
The industry is in a virtually perpetual employer's market on the pilot side- supply will almost certainly exceed demand until the end of time. And yet still, with pilots "a dime a dozen", employers still cry foul when one must be replaced. Having your cake and eating it too comes to mind. Restated, if there is an unlimited supply, the price must therefore be so low the the replacement costs become almost negligible. And still we're supposed to feel guilty about leaving? Supply is definitely down from where it was 3 years ago when 4000 hr pilots were flying Navajos- we've just become so accustomed to absolute sh&t conditions, that when they improve to merely cr@p it feels like the lottery. But it ain't that bad, despite the protestations and gesticulations of some. My former company is currently in somewhat of a state of panic regarding pilot retention. Seems to me they've tried everything- direct entry captains, training bonds, hand wringing- EXCEPT raising the pay! Until the pay comes out of the industry's basement, I have a hard time believing there is any problem whatsoever.
Anyhow, I agree that jobs should not be hopped or zig zagged with little thought to the consequences to one's career, but this slave-like mentality that we somehow owe a degree of loyalty to airlines (Ma and Pa's flight school right up to Air Canada) when similar reciprocation is absent- aren't we constantly reminded that the industry doesn't "owe" us a living? Well I don't buy it anymore.
My word to my wife, my family, and my friends, is like gold. In business, especially this one, you gotta strike while the iron is hot and grab all you can because next year- heck next month- you may not have the chance.
