What really happened on Sept 11..is Bush the real terrorist?

[bmc]

Israel is hardly the bad guy in all of this though.

90% of the cluster bombs dropped on Lebanon were in the last 24 hours of their invasion, after a truce had been called. Cluster bombs are not precision bombs. Indescriminate killing.

Hardly the bad guy? They're all bad. They deserve each other.

[bartbandy]

Bart. Please tell us how you would deal with Radical Islam if you were the president of the USA?

"If I were president
I'd get elected on Friday
Assassinated on Saturday
Buried on Sunday
Go back to work on Monday
If I were president ..."
Wyclef Jean

But seriously Haz, therein, as they say, lies the rub.
Once the “Global War on Terror” really got rolling with the arrival of the cavalry in Baghdad, it became self-perpetuating. The more innocent people they kill in the name of fighting the terr’ists, the more “Radical islamists” they create. It’s a win-win for Bush and the Gang, the country is at war so he gets to call himself the “war president”, which seems to mean that he can shred the Constitution and do whatever the hell pleases him. The war also creates new enemies, so it would be seen as dereliction of duty to bring the troops home given the number of people in the world who currently hate them. This is a war that can have no winners, save the shareholders of the military-industrial machine, and that is exactly the way that Bushco wants it. Everyone seems to think that Bush was premature and arrogant when he stood in front of that “Mission Accomplished” banner on the deck of that carrier. Arrogant, you betcha, but I think that for him and his pals, the mission really was accomplished.
I’m really glad I’m not president, as I don’t envy anyone who’s tasked with finding a way out of this mess, but had I been elected in 2000 instead of the chimp, I would never have created it. Of course, Georgie wasn’t elected in 2000 or 2004, but that’s a story for another thread.

[Dex]

Sorry for the delay, I had to go play with transient Orca in my Kayak. What a Rush!!

Several issues with your reasoning on the interpretation of Article 49. The passage was about the Occupying Power not the motivation of the civilian. An Israeli civilian cannot just setup a settlement (on their own accord) in the occupied territories without a *permit* as this violates Israeli law. Israel has complete control over the whole process of the settlements. From the development of the land on the occupied territories, including in many cases bulldozing native citizens farms and homes, to the administration of the civilian settlers, to the 24 hour protection of the settlements by the military, to the civilian settlers retaining Israeli citizenship while living in the occupied territories. Israel is *transfering* its civlian population to the occupied territories the same as corporations transfer its employees to other branches of its business; even when the employee/civilian goes on its own accord and even requested the transfer.

Dex I was coming to a compramise, and as to why I believe that Article 49 does not implicate Israel is because The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies. can mean that the government of the occupying country can not move its civilian population. It makes no mention of the civilians acting on their own accord.

To me if you want to support your side the law would have to be "The occupying power shall not deport, transfer, or allow any of its own civilian population either by force or of their own free will into the territory it occupies.

However since it does not directly and discriptivly state such a thing it is left to interpritation.

[Dex]

Why would anyone think that disbanding only a few settlements in Gaza Strip while its still building one of the largest settlements ever in the West Bank could change anything?

Read this thread again to find out my "argument". It is simple

DEX, I clearly see that you are awaiting someone to agree with you that israel is committing war crimes, and it is also clear, that the moment anyone were to actually do that, you would declare the argument won, end of debate. Israel=BAD.

you also claim these territories to be "occupied". Israel didnt start the war in 1967, maybe we should call these territories "conquered"? In which case they could do whatever they wanted with said lands.

Anyway, Israel recently gave up the west bank, even removed its own citizens from their homes and gave it to the Palistinians, and maybe if they stopped getting rocket and mortar attacks from this land they just gave up, maybe they would retreat from Gaza as well. at that point you can take your meaningless article whatever @#$! the number and hit the road. And then what would you hide behind to justify suicide bombings, maybe the local Mcdonalds didnt cookl their hamburgers well enough.

My point is this, you are arguing that building houses on occupied land somhow outweighs terrorism. give me a break


another thing, all you lefties who think the US went to war because of oil? Guess you guys arent paying what I am paying at the pumps. good plan, lets invade more countries, so I can pay $2 a litre

Floats

[Dex]

My point is this, you are arguing that building houses on occupied land somhow outweighs terrorism. give me a break

Floats

Forgot to respond to this.

I was not arguing this at all. My belief is displacing native people by destroying their houses and farm land to build internationally recognized as illegal (145 countries including Canada) Israel settlements is a *cause* of terrorism. The point (thesis) I was trying to make in this thread was that America's support of Israeli war crimes had forseeable consequences. Obviously these war crimes are the Israeli settlements. Several people challenged the settlements as illegal and I am debating the issue.

Although I may take up the issue of the cause and effect relationship between the illegal Israeli settlements and terrorism; it seems to be lost in many people on this site. What is your opinion on this matter?

[Walker]

[bartbandy]

Nice one Walker. I like this one, as it suits the thread title nicely.