Well, if I was following your logic correctly (and that's a pretty big if I'll admit), you were using your experiences in Africa as a means of justifying your comments about Canadian troops being killed in Afghanistan. The only similiarities I can see between Africa and Afghanistan is that some North-African countries are Muslim, and that they are all third-world countries. Reading between the lines, it seems to me that you think most of the third-world is savage, extremist, and beyond help. I respect your right to hold that opinion, but please correct me if I'm wrong.Cat Driver wrote:And just what the fu.k do you mean by "or is every third world country the same to you?
Darfur Death Toll
Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako
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monkeyspankmasterflex
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Cat Driver
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" The only similiarities I can see between Africa and Afghanistan is that some North-African countries are Muslim, "
Exactly, and is the strife in the Sudan partially driven by religion, and is the Islamic religion not part of the strife??
Exactly, and is the strife in the Sudan partially driven by religion, and is the Islamic religion not part of the strife??
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Cat Driver
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" You are a fucking idiot. You brag about still having your hands and feet and your libido, never knew that the first thing to go was compassion and common sense. "
I wonder what gives you the right to call me an idiot monkeyspank..when you do not have the ability to read into my question the intent behind it?
If you read it in the context that I wrote it you might come to the conclusion that the soldiers are being murdered trying to help out those who do not want help.
So listen to me for a moment.
Don't call me an idiot and accuse me of lack of compassion and common sense when you are to dumb to understand what I was driving at.
On a lighter note monkey, it is very unlikely you and I would run into each other because I very much doubt you would be involved in the area of aviation that I work in...however should I be wrong introduce yourself.
I wonder what gives you the right to call me an idiot monkeyspank..when you do not have the ability to read into my question the intent behind it?
If you read it in the context that I wrote it you might come to the conclusion that the soldiers are being murdered trying to help out those who do not want help.
So listen to me for a moment.
Don't call me an idiot and accuse me of lack of compassion and common sense when you are to dumb to understand what I was driving at.
On a lighter note monkey, it is very unlikely you and I would run into each other because I very much doubt you would be involved in the area of aviation that I work in...however should I be wrong introduce yourself.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Of course it is. And is not most war and destruction throughout history at least partially attributable to one religion or another? IMO, this fact alone isn’t very important when comparing the plight of the Sudanese to that of the Afghans. Religion will always be a factor in people killing each other, some pretty awful things have been done in Jesus’ name and Mohammed’s.Cat Driver wrote:Exactly, and is the strife in the Sudan partially driven by religion, and is the Islamic religion not part of the strife??
I know what you were trying to say: “See all you bleeding-heart pinkos? See what your so-called compassionate approach to a brutal world gets you?” I agree, it is criminal for our troops to be put in harms way like that, but it is still inexcusable to me to phrase it in such an inflammatory way. I know I’m the last person around here to accuse people of being inflammatory, but that one crossed the line and implied to me that you have no compassion for anyone, not our troops, not their families, not the Afghans, not the Sudanese, and not the people who read this board.
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monkeyspankmasterflex
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Primarily you being an idiot.I wonder what gives you the right to call me an idiot monkeyspank
If you called them OUR soldiers instead of YOUR soldiers I would be more inclined to believe that that was your intent. I normally enjoy your nonsensical/subject changing/sensationalist arguements, this one however was not only in poor taste, it was IMO unacceptable. Of course this is a forum, so my only recourse is to continue calling you an idiot.If you read it in the context that I wrote it you might come to the conclusion that the soldiers are being murdered trying to help out those who do not want help.
I'll buy you a coffee should the opprtunity ever present itself, but, as you said, it's quite unlikely.On a lighter note monkey, it is very unlikely you and I would run into each other because I very much doubt you would be involved in the area of aviation that I work in...however should I be wrong introduce yourself.
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Cat Driver
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"I know I’m the last person around here to accuse people of being inflammatory, but that one crossed the line and implied to me that you have no compassion for anyone, not our troops, not their families, not the Afghans, not the Sudanese, and not the people who read this board. "
And therein lies our problem bart, you assume to much.
If you are so passionate and so concerned about these parts of the world why don't you go over and help them?
How about this for compassion?
There was a hangar in Niamey, on the opposite side of the field from where we were based.
The hangar was owned by the president of Niger to house his personal 737 and of course was protected to the extreem.
When he was finally shot and the hangar was examined, low and behold if it was not packed full of Canadian food donated to feed the starving in Niger.
The food had spoiled and was feeding the rats.
However it did probably help the starving some by feeding the rats because a rat for a lot of Africans is a means of getting protein.
One of the most vivid memories I have of Africa was walking through the market in Cotonou in Benin and seeing rows of rats spread out on tables on the river bank with their undersides slit open and crawling with flies and maggots.
So maybe my compassion is blunted by the reality of Africa and the hopelessness of trying to change the impossible.
Cat
And therein lies our problem bart, you assume to much.
If you are so passionate and so concerned about these parts of the world why don't you go over and help them?
How about this for compassion?
There was a hangar in Niamey, on the opposite side of the field from where we were based.
The hangar was owned by the president of Niger to house his personal 737 and of course was protected to the extreem.
When he was finally shot and the hangar was examined, low and behold if it was not packed full of Canadian food donated to feed the starving in Niger.
The food had spoiled and was feeding the rats.
However it did probably help the starving some by feeding the rats because a rat for a lot of Africans is a means of getting protein.
One of the most vivid memories I have of Africa was walking through the market in Cotonou in Benin and seeing rows of rats spread out on tables on the river bank with their undersides slit open and crawling with flies and maggots.
So maybe my compassion is blunted by the reality of Africa and the hopelessness of trying to change the impossible.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Cat Driver
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Hey monkey:
As to this.
" If you called them OUR soldiers instead of YOUR soldiers I would be more inclined to believe that that was your intent. "
In that I was not born in Canada, does that mean anything?
It is not Canada nor Canada's soldiers that I find lacking, it is the political mindset and the slavish beliefe in the propoganda that forms your beliefe base that I have problems with.
As to this.
" If you called them OUR soldiers instead of YOUR soldiers I would be more inclined to believe that that was your intent. "
In that I was not born in Canada, does that mean anything?
It is not Canada nor Canada's soldiers that I find lacking, it is the political mindset and the slavish beliefe in the propoganda that forms your beliefe base that I have problems with.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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monkeyspankmasterflex
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Not a thing, all I would call it is a weak attempt at back peddling. What you said was poorly timed and in the poorest taste.In that I was not born in Canada, does that mean anything?
Tell me more about this propaganda. I don't remember siding one way or another, so I'm quite impressed that you've established and evaluated my belief set. One thing's for sure, I definitely believe you to be an idiot.It is not Canada nor Canada's soldiers that I find lacking, it is the political mindset and the slavish beliefe in the propoganda that forms your beliefe base that I have problems with.
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Cat Driver
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" One thing's for sure, I definitely believe you to be an idiot. "
_________________
And I likewise think you are an idiot, and you are entiteled to think whatever you wish.
Except I have no intention of backpeddling over a comment that you choose to take in a different meaning than I made it.
So go monkeyspank yourself.
_________________
And I likewise think you are an idiot, and you are entiteled to think whatever you wish.
Except I have no intention of backpeddling over a comment that you choose to take in a different meaning than I made it.
So go monkeyspank yourself.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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monkeyspankmasterflex
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- Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:12 pm
Cat, I've read your responses to a few questions brought on by other writers here and can't understand why you'd bring the soldiers handing out candy to a South African problem. Why'd you say that anyway? You usually bring up decent shit but that was off-fucking-side. What, is Sweet and Juicy taking your popularity and you needed something imflammtory to get responses? C'mon, you can draw from your experiences and tell us some shit from being overseas but holy hell, those guys didn't have orders to give candy away I'm sure. They might have even thought it was a way to preserve Canadian diplomacy but on a different scale. They might have been bored by shooting humans and not getting any rewards for it so got satisfaction by actually doing something nice. Something they would have done for Canadian kids.
Everything comes in threes....
I guess you don't have to work with New Yorks best on a daily basis. I would carry on but then I would be called a racist and accused of stereotyping.cpt sweet'njuicy wrote:...can I just interject for a moment to say....gosh darn it I love black people....carry on
Monkeyspankeydumassflex, your "idiot" argument discredits your occaisional valid points. Keep up the good work.
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Cat Driver
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Dammit will you guys just read what I wrote...
"Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:21 am Post subject:
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Scuba, The continent of Africa is emense beyond beliefe and no one really knows how many millions of people there really are there.
And you can not change a culture because you think yours is better.
By the way how are your Canadian soldiers doing handing out candy to the children in Afghanistan?
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I was pointing out the overwhelming size of Africa and the difficulty of doing anything of any real value to change the continent and the suffering of it's population.
Can you grasp that part.?
Then I opined that you can not change a culture because you think yours is better...
Can you grasp that?
I then used the loss of the Canadian soldiers who were only trying to help as an example that you can not force change on a country that has sucessfully resisted change since the dawn of time.
It was on reflection a poor choice of wording, however the answer that I hoped would be arrived at is the soldiers are being killed trying to force a change in a culture for political reasons based in a large part on control of oil..now do you get what I meant?
Or does everyone here think that oil does not come into this equasion in both countries?
Now if this poor choice of words makes me an idiot then I am not alone on Avcanada for making poorly thought out posts.
Win lose or draw, I have been to many of these African and middle east counrries and was part of a program named Project Okavango which was a French documentary about Africa and its problems as well as its good points.
Cat
"Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:21 am Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scuba, The continent of Africa is emense beyond beliefe and no one really knows how many millions of people there really are there.
And you can not change a culture because you think yours is better.
By the way how are your Canadian soldiers doing handing out candy to the children in Afghanistan?
_________________
*****************************
I was pointing out the overwhelming size of Africa and the difficulty of doing anything of any real value to change the continent and the suffering of it's population.
Can you grasp that part.?
Then I opined that you can not change a culture because you think yours is better...
Can you grasp that?
I then used the loss of the Canadian soldiers who were only trying to help as an example that you can not force change on a country that has sucessfully resisted change since the dawn of time.
It was on reflection a poor choice of wording, however the answer that I hoped would be arrived at is the soldiers are being killed trying to force a change in a culture for political reasons based in a large part on control of oil..now do you get what I meant?
Or does everyone here think that oil does not come into this equasion in both countries?
Now if this poor choice of words makes me an idiot then I am not alone on Avcanada for making poorly thought out posts.
Win lose or draw, I have been to many of these African and middle east counrries and was part of a program named Project Okavango which was a French documentary about Africa and its problems as well as its good points.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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politically_incorrect
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Facts that describe any particular group are not stereotypes, but most people in this world have forgotten the distinction.wingtip wrote:I guess you don't have to work with New Yorks best on a daily basis. I would carry on but then I would be called a racist and accused of stereotyping.
So you could say that most natives are unemployed, because that is not a stereotype, that is a fact. On the other hand, calling them all drunks would probably be a stereotype, as it is not the overwhelming majority of them that are drunks... just a considerable number.
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monkeyspankmasterflex
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It was some pretty cold shit to say.It was on reflection a poor choice of wording
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/s ... TopStories
Correct, my posts rarely make sense, let alone have a point.Now if this poor choice of words makes me an idiot then I am not alone on Avcanada for making poorly thought out posts.
I understand that this war won't be won. I know the guys and girls over there are in a tough spot and in the end, what they're doing won't amount to much when the average person looks at the situation and the outcome. Resisting change or just protecting what they think is right? Cat, I can see what you were getting at but the delivery, we'll call it, was brutal.
Everything comes in threes....
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politically_incorrect
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No, it won't. And that's the problem with how the government has been "selling" the war to people. They've not given a clear message to counter the complete and utter bullshit spewed by Jack Layton.ei ei owe wrote:I understand that this war won't be won.
At the same time, everyone equates our involvement in Afghanistan with the US's misguided involvement in Iraq, and they are not at all similar. Afghanistan is in response to 9/11; Iraq is Bush's personal deal.
We are not over there to turn Afghanistan into the next Canada or USA. We will never change hundreds or thousands of years of culture in the span of a couple years' time.
What we are over there for, is to help create an environment that can sustain some type of government that is sustainable, somewhat democratic, and will not allow the Taliban (or an entity like them) to reform and spend their days training people to fly planes into buildings, or some other equivalent act.
That is a worthy cause, and it is worth being there for.
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Cat Driver
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" It was some pretty cold shit to say. "
Yes, agreed it was pretty cold shit to say.
But if I were to sugar coat it it would not have the same impact and would not have brought out this more realistic discussion about how the world really works.
All of these wars and rule by tyrants are part of human nature always has been and always will be.
Over population is part of the root problem in many countries such as Africa and to exaserbate the problem is the lack of education and the ability to communicate with the rest of the world due to real poverty.
When soldiers die we as a society should demand that the politicians make the decisions to send them to war for the good of Canada, not to curry favour with other nations trying to control the world for greed and power.
Are any of you starting to understand why I use " cold shit " to make a point.
It's called reality.
Cat
Yes, agreed it was pretty cold shit to say.
But if I were to sugar coat it it would not have the same impact and would not have brought out this more realistic discussion about how the world really works.
All of these wars and rule by tyrants are part of human nature always has been and always will be.
Over population is part of the root problem in many countries such as Africa and to exaserbate the problem is the lack of education and the ability to communicate with the rest of the world due to real poverty.
When soldiers die we as a society should demand that the politicians make the decisions to send them to war for the good of Canada, not to curry favour with other nations trying to control the world for greed and power.
Are any of you starting to understand why I use " cold shit " to make a point.
It's called reality.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Cat Driver
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How many of you have watched another human being forced to his knees and beheaded in public?
And then watched the people who are gathered to see it applaud and enjoy the spectacle?
I have and trust me it is very thought provoking not to mention disturbing....
Can some of you now start to understand why I am so angry about the deaths of those soldiers?
It was the same culture that did the beheadings down the street from where we lived..every fuc.ing tuesday and friday morning at 10:00 AM.
Yeh I am fu.king angry.
And then watched the people who are gathered to see it applaud and enjoy the spectacle?
I have and trust me it is very thought provoking not to mention disturbing....
Can some of you now start to understand why I am so angry about the deaths of those soldiers?
It was the same culture that did the beheadings down the street from where we lived..every fuc.ing tuesday and friday morning at 10:00 AM.
Yeh I am fu.king angry.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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niss
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You know what they say Cat....if you cant stand the heat....then you shouldnt have been a homosexual, now take your beheading like a man.
She’s built like a Steakhouse, but she handles like a Bistro.
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
I have spent a good portion of my aviation career in Africa. I have been in Dufaur and many countries there. I have worked for oil companies as well as relief oranizations and know people in for every type of flying organization there, from airlines to charter ops and private operators.
But the truth is about Dufaur and the rest of the continent is - nobody gives a shit.
Now before I get dumped on - to qualify my statement - there are many organizations administrating professional work there - mostly NGO's (but not all) - MSF. Save the Children to mention a few, and there are many dedicated organizations and people like Stephen Lewis who are trying to bring the cause to the lime light and all the - let me call them "the little people" working their ass off to the help the Africians -BUT - I My Humble Opinion - the problem is just too big for the rest of the world. The major countries (read E9) basically stay away (throw a few crumbs to satiisfy their own conscience).
Just look where Zimbabwe is now from 10 yrs ago. Pitiful but a current look of the way many countries went the last 50+ yrs.
So that leads us to the UN - now there is a gaggle of individuals who have three agendas - their US$ pay checks, their index pensions and their diplomatic passports. And most I have met are double dipping - meaning they have a civil pension from their home country before they went to the UN.
PITA
But the truth is about Dufaur and the rest of the continent is - nobody gives a shit.
Now before I get dumped on - to qualify my statement - there are many organizations administrating professional work there - mostly NGO's (but not all) - MSF. Save the Children to mention a few, and there are many dedicated organizations and people like Stephen Lewis who are trying to bring the cause to the lime light and all the - let me call them "the little people" working their ass off to the help the Africians -BUT - I My Humble Opinion - the problem is just too big for the rest of the world. The major countries (read E9) basically stay away (throw a few crumbs to satiisfy their own conscience).
Just look where Zimbabwe is now from 10 yrs ago. Pitiful but a current look of the way many countries went the last 50+ yrs.
So that leads us to the UN - now there is a gaggle of individuals who have three agendas - their US$ pay checks, their index pensions and their diplomatic passports. And most I have met are double dipping - meaning they have a civil pension from their home country before they went to the UN.
PITA
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Cat Driver
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Thanks Pita, you are supporting what I have been trying to get across, the problem is so big and the politics are so convoluted that it is hopeless to try and even think that we can solve it.
I was going to mention the Zimbawe mess, but just never got around to it.
What a sad sad situation to see a country with so much going for it around ten years ago driven back thousands of years by a savage like R. M.
Jesus I can't think of many examples more evident of the world turning their backs while a tyrant murders the population.
Canada should hang its head in shame when one remembers Chretien yapping about how demoncratic Bob's re election was.
How can any leader of a country like Canada be so far off base...do all of you believe he did not know what was happening in Zimbawbe?
Stand by for the next blood bath coming in Somalia.
Cat
I was going to mention the Zimbawe mess, but just never got around to it.
What a sad sad situation to see a country with so much going for it around ten years ago driven back thousands of years by a savage like R. M.
Jesus I can't think of many examples more evident of the world turning their backs while a tyrant murders the population.
Canada should hang its head in shame when one remembers Chretien yapping about how demoncratic Bob's re election was.
How can any leader of a country like Canada be so far off base...do all of you believe he did not know what was happening in Zimbawbe?
Stand by for the next blood bath coming in Somalia.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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scubasteve
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Cat you said that the root of the problems are over population from a lack of education and poverty. Do you not think educating africans with basic skills, reading, writing, math, how to farm or to do something that helps them feed their families and become self sufficient, is worthwhile? I know there is corruption and political crap getting in the way but not doing something because it is difficult doesnt fly with me.
There are people in Afghanistan that dont want the Canadians there, that dont want change but I dont believe it is the whole country. Its a crazy situation where the Taliban gets more support by destroying schools and causing chaos and blaming the Canadians and others for not protecting them.
There are people in Afghanistan that dont want the Canadians there, that dont want change but I dont believe it is the whole country. Its a crazy situation where the Taliban gets more support by destroying schools and causing chaos and blaming the Canadians and others for not protecting them.
