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Rebel
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:28 pm 
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Forensic accountant to look at WestJet files
Staff hard drives

Paul Vieira
Financial Post

July 9, 2004

Air Canada and WestJet Airlines Ltd. agreed yesterday to allow a forensic accountant to examine computer hard drives belonging to four WestJet employees -- including three vice-presidents -- to determine what should be turned over to the Montreal airline as evidence in its lawsuit over alleged corporate espionage.

Also, Air Canada is set to receive formal court approval for an order that prohibits WestJet from destroying, distributing and using data collected from its rival's internal Web site over a 12-month period. The two airlines signed off on the order, on the condition of some amendments.

These were the two main developments from a 90-minute hearing yesterday at Ontario's Superior Court of Justice on the Air Canada lawsuit.

"Air Canada virtually got what it wanted," Earl Cherniak, a lawyer for the airline, said after the hearing.

The legal action alleges WestJet unlawfully obtained confidential business information -- mostly load factors, or seats filled, on flights -- and used it to challenge Air Canada on its most profitable flights and determine expansion plans. WestJet admits information was obtained, but denies it was ever used for commercial purposes.

The next stage in the legal action involves the two airline agreeing upon a court-approved forensic expert to go through the computer hard drives of four WestJet employees -- including two co-founders, a former head of marketing, and a high-tech staff member who wrote software to enable easy penetration of the Air Canada data base.

This expert, to be sanctioned by the court, will determine what data from the hard drives may be forwarded to Air Canada in relation to its legal claim, as opposed to letting Air Canada's lawyers comb through all the WestJet hard drives.

The two sides are to develop a protocol within the next few days to determine, among other things, dates as to when certain evidence must be produced.

In arguments yesterday, Mr. Cherniak warned Mr. Justice Ian Nordheimer that once evidence is turned over, "it may show a much more significant use of that [confidential] information for a significant period of time."

The next crucial court date is July 22, when WestJet lawyers will seek permission from the Ontario judge overseeing Air Canada's bankruptcy reorganization for permission to countersue. WesJet is prohibited from launching legal action against Air Canada due to the terms of the court order granting the airline creditor protection.

Air Canada lawyers are in court today to get approval of its plan of arrangement and permission to send it out to creditors.

© National Post 2004


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Schlem
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 6:47 pm 
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Notice how the media is no longer writing negatively about A/C and it's problems anymore?

Wag the dog...

wag the dog...


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Wilbur
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:08 pm 
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What are they supposed to write negatively about AC in this matter? AC is the victim, WJ the perpetrator!

The fact that AC has made some poor management decisions does not mean everything they do is wrong. Conversely, the fact that WJ has been a media darling and financial success does not mean everything they do is right.

Reality check, a number of WJ's senior executives are self-acknowleged thieves! That is information prudent investors want to know. If I'm buying shares in a company I have to trust the directors and executive team will conduct their business within the law. If I'm considering investing in WJ right now, I want as much information as I can get about the seriousness of their legal problems as it directly impacts share value.


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Schlem
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:16 pm 
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Wilbur wrote:
What are they supposed to write negatively about AC in this matter? AC is the victim, WJ the perpetrator!


That's the point... AC's financial problems, creditor problems, restructuring, upcoming massive jobs cuts, and overal health are no longer being hammered about by the media...

All we see and hear now is WJ illegally took advantage of AC, WJ being sued by AC, WJ caused AC's problems, AC lawyers going after WJ, etc, etc.

Thus... "wag the dog" I'm sure you have seen the movie.

My post above did not refer the current situtaion AC vs WJ BTW.


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ahramin
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:35 pm 
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How about the fact that they are still not paying their bills. If air canada is so wonderful, why are the rest of us (who want nothing to do with them) paying to pick up their tab?


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Rebel
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:06 pm 
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ahramin

What are you referring too? How are you paying AC’s bills?


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ahramin
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:24 am 
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Air Canada went into bankruptcy protection because it could not pay its bills. Those bills will be paid out at pennies on the dollar if at all when they emerge from bankruptcy protection. All those NavCanada fees, fuel bills, etc ad nauseum that have gone unpaid all this time and will never be paid in full will be covered by charging more. Check out the latest rise in NavCanada fees back in May.


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Rebel
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 2:56 am 
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ahramin

Well I have to disagree with you. If AC who is the largest user and might I add payer of all the airport facilities in Canada didn’t pay its bills or isn’t around to pay its’ bills the system would shut down.

In other words nobody could afford to pay the fees that would have to be charged to maintain the system. So perhaps you should give your head a shake before writing trash. For your information AC is now operating on a postive cash flow basis.


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matrix
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 4:03 am 
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Anybody have ACTUAL PROOF that Westjet used the information from the AC site to plan their route structure? I haven't seen any.


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LT
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 6:10 am 
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Rebel wrote:
ahramin

Well I have to disagree with you. If AC who is the largest user and might I add payer of all the airport facilities in Canada didn’t pay its bills or isn’t around to pay its’ bills the system would shut down.

In other words nobody could afford to pay the fees that would have to be charged to maintain the system. So perhaps you should give your head a shake before writing trash. For your information AC is now operating on a postive cash flow basis.

<tehehe>.

He doesn't need to check that they're operating at a postive cash flow, it would be embarassing to come out of debt and be in debt right away, so we all know they're + cash flow, how long is the question we're asking.

WJ wanted to be in the first 10 gates at terminal one but was denied. Don't be silly, if Air Canada wasn't around I'm sure Wawa would still be available and free.

Finally, even if AC was the largest user, they're paying 1/10th of their bill so they're not the largest payer.


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Rebel
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:28 am 
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LT

That’s a pretty clueless post, do you always shoot from the hip before thinking it through?


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LT
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:55 am 
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Quote:
Rebel

That’s a pretty clueless post, do you always shoot from the hip before thinking it through?


:roll:


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Blastor
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:31 pm 
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Relax people.

With the exception of our beloved WJ troll (Shclem) of course.
Have a heart attack good buddy!

Just remember that Air Canada is dealing with a huge workforce, an extensive aircraft fleet, a multitude of unions and a debt handed-down from our beloved Federal Government.

If WJ had 50 000 employees, 300 or so aircraft (of various type), a multitude of unions and a huge debt handed-down by the government, do you think they still be here?

I'm sure the FA, Call centre people, Cargo handlers, AME's and others would love to see their hourly rate go up and be protected by huge unions like AC. It’s easy to make profits when your workforce is pay below industry average. It’s easy to be successful when you don’t have to worry about unions. It’s easy to expand your destination when others have discovered and maintained high yield routes, it’s easy to be successful when you capitalize on others faults and problems…

WJ hasn’t pioneered anything. They copied others. They started with a clean slate and without any kind of government & unions’ interference whatsoever. How can you fail? Keep up the smiles and corny jokes, keep the unions away, trash away at the competition and they will come.

I'm sure Air Canada management would love to do away with all unions, pay their people like WJ and start all over again debt-free...


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Wilbur
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:12 pm 
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Schlem,

They probably aren't writing about AC's restructuring problems because there isn't much happening at the moment that's terribly newsworthy. The process is just grinding along. I'm sure when something big happens it will be reported.

WJ, on the other hand, is an actively traded company with investors making decisions daily regarding the quality and value of their stock. The bonehead actions of their senior management in thieving AC data is VERY newsworthy. I expect it will surface in the financial press everytime something new happens in the courts.


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Schlem
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:14 pm 
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Wilbur wrote:
Schlem,

They probably aren't writing about AC's restructuring problems because there isn't much happening at the moment that's terribly newsworthy.

I expect it will surface in the financial press everytime something new happens in the courts.


Regardless... I'm sure AC is more then happy to have all the negative aviation press focused on WJ as Blastur and Rebel have so kindly pointed out to us.


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Wilbur
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:34 pm 
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I'm sure AC is just as keen to gloat over WJ's actions in this matter as WJ was with some of AC's finanical decisions.


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CanadaEH
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:07 pm 
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The issue of lawsuits and espionage is before the courts. Nothing is going to come out of throwing mud at your competitor.... NOTHING. You all sound like a bunch of immature children with your constant bickering.

Air Canada is a good international airline, Westjet is a good domestic airline. Is that hard to accept?

I enjoy working for Westjet, as I'm sure many do working for Air Canada (although these aren't the best of times, understandably). Air Canada does a great job flying internationally and Westjet does a great job flying domestically. My dad has the ability to fly Westjet for next to nothing but he opts to use his Aeroplan points (he's a frequent business traveller) to fly Air Canada, United, or Lufthansa. Good for him, he likes the service and there's no reason for me - a Westjet employee - to be mad.

Keep throwing your mud children, you at least make for some entertaining threads.


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