Good luck to the new operation.
Canjet
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako
Be interesting to see what kind of a customer base the “new” Canjet will have. Cut it which way you want but getting very short notice on termination of scheduled services which made customers rebook and/or dealing with other airlines not to mention additional costs, certainly isn’t gonna help. When booking vacations, we look for stability not having to wonder if the said operation will be around and this is the third run for CJ within this past 6-8 years. People plan and save for their big trips i.e. cruise, resort etc because of costs involved…………
Good luck to the new operation.
Good luck to the new operation.
Considering I am getting quite a few phone calls from your peers about working conditions at my company, I think I have the general idea of what's up with CJ. CJ offered me a job quite a while back and although I knew I would be left seat very fast, I opted for a longer right seat with long term stability. That and I've been laid off 5 times in this industry, twice by pure assholes. You people deserve better and it's frustratiing to see some hanging on to this dead end. Make your time well spent by going for AC, ACJ, WS...and a few others. They're all hiring and they know you're available. In fact, the best group of pilots around, ALPA, has just about ensured you all with interviews at ACJ.
As for you Flaps30GreenLight, this isn't an easy gig and sometimes layoffs come around. However, until you've come to your senses, when you're done with KR's you can go ahead and shine my shoes...boy.
As for you Flaps30GreenLight, this isn't an easy gig and sometimes layoffs come around. However, until you've come to your senses, when you're done with KR's you can go ahead and shine my shoes...boy.
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green bastard
- Rank 2
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:30 pm
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Rowdy Piper
- Rank 0
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:50 am
[quote="Beech18s"]Considering I am getting quite a few phone calls from your peers about working conditions at my company, I think I have the general idea of what's up with CJ. CJ offered me a job quite a while back and although I knew I would be left seat very fast, I opted for a longer right seat with long term stability. That and I've been laid off 5 times in this industry, twice by pure assholes. You people deserve better and it's frustratiing to see some hanging on to this dead end. Make your time well spent by going for AC, ACJ, WS...and a few others. They're all hiring and they know you're available. In fact, the best group of pilots around, ALPA, has just about ensured you all with interviews at ACJ.
Beech18, Well said... you're right about all that. It's bad enough getting burnt once but twice sucks.. glade to see you made out well.. Do worry about Flaps30, he's obviously frusterated with the industry.Nice self control !! You had a chance to walk all over him and did'nt, that's class
Smart'n up Mikey
Beech18, Well said... you're right about all that. It's bad enough getting burnt once but twice sucks.. glade to see you made out well.. Do worry about Flaps30, he's obviously frusterated with the industry.Nice self control !! You had a chance to walk all over him and did'nt, that's class
Smart'n up Mikey
From the Chronicle Herald here in Halifax:
CanJet's change of course necessary to keep company afloat, says Rowe
Airline will hire back as many as new charter business demands
By BRUCE ERSKINE Business Reporter
Ken Rowe used an analogy Wednesday to explain his decision to scuttle CanJet’s scheduled airline service and focus on charter operations.
"It’s like having 40 people in a lifeboat that’s designed for 30," he said in an interview after a news conference in Halifax, where he announced that CanJet is rehiring 100 pilots and flight attendants from the 456 airline staff let go after the company ended scheduled flights Sept. 10.
"If you’re in charge of the lifeboat, you can either be sympathetic and go down with 40, or you can throw 10 out and let the other 30 survive," said Mr. Rowe, who is chairman and CEO of the privately held IMP Group of Halifax, which controls CanJet.
"It’s a tough decision."
At the time of the announcement, Mr. Rowe said the decision was based on "rising business risks."
CanJet chief operating officer Julie Gossen said in a message on the airline’s website these included higher fuel costs, increased airport fees and more competition on the airline’s primary routes.
"It wasn’t achieving the returns that we expect from our divisions," Mr. Rowe said Wednesday.
He said he hopes to be able to rehire all the airline employees if the company’s new charter plan works out.
"We kept 70 (CanJet workers), re-engineered it, now we’re hiring back over 100 and maybe, within two or three years, we may have more than the original 500, particularly if we go to international charters and things like that," he said, pointing out that three of the most profitable airlines in Europe are charters.
CanJet has signed a charter contract with tour operator Sunquest and is negotiating with similar businesses, although Mr. Rowe wouldn’t name them.
He said charter flights will originate from Halifax and Toronto and will fly to Cuba, Mexico, the Dominican Republic, the Bahamas and Jamaica.
"Our primary focus will be to serve as an independent carrier to various tour operators and other organizations that require aircraft for charter," he said, adding that CanJet, which will operate six 118-seat Boeing 737 aircraft, might consider reoffering scheduled flights during peak travel periods.
CanJet is integrating its new charter service with its Execaire corporate aircraft service of Montreal, and Mr. Rowe said he’s confident the combination will generate substantial new charter business, which he said is less risky than scheduled service.
"You recover your costs as long as you fly the mission," he said. "You’re not waiting, booking seats and then flying a third or a half of them empty sometimes."
Some CanJet employees said they were shocked by what they called a sudden decision to end scheduled service, but Mr. Rowe defended the timing of his announcement.
"With an airline, as the CEO, I’m legally responsible . . . so my first concern with what we do and how we do it, is the safety of those aircraft and all aboard them," he said, noting that other airlines in similar circumstances have simply declared bankruptcy and left their passengers stranded. "What I had to do was measure the time between customer inconvenience and flight safety."
The Air Line Pilots Association, International, which represents recently certified CanJet pilots, complained before the Sept. 5 announcement that the company wasn’t negotiating a first contract with them and suggested that the flight shutdown was a form of union-busting.
Mr. Rowe discounted those claims Wednesday, noting that IMP Group has unionized workers among its 3,500 employees. He said the company simply didn’t want to enter into contract talks with the pilots when there was a real possibility that their jobs might disappear.
"We, for months, had been looking at this situation, so they were really off the radar screen because the chances were, until we had a viable re-engineered business plan like we’ve come up with, there wasn’t going to be anyone."
Pilots Association spokesman Pete Janhunen said from Washington that the union was "encouraged" by Wednesday’s rehiring announcement, adding that it intends to support CanJet pilots in negotiating a collective bargaining agreement with the airline.
Marilyne White, a national representative with the Canadian Union of Public Employees, which in October begins contract talks with the airline on behalf of flight attendants, said the rehiring was "great news" for CanJet employees and the Nova Scotia economy.
"We have a commitment in writing that they will bring them back in order of seniority," she said in an interview from Vancouver, adding that it’s feasible that CanJet could hire back all its laid-off employees.
( berskine@herald.ca)
CanJet's change of course necessary to keep company afloat, says Rowe
Airline will hire back as many as new charter business demands
By BRUCE ERSKINE Business Reporter
Ken Rowe used an analogy Wednesday to explain his decision to scuttle CanJet’s scheduled airline service and focus on charter operations.
"It’s like having 40 people in a lifeboat that’s designed for 30," he said in an interview after a news conference in Halifax, where he announced that CanJet is rehiring 100 pilots and flight attendants from the 456 airline staff let go after the company ended scheduled flights Sept. 10.
"If you’re in charge of the lifeboat, you can either be sympathetic and go down with 40, or you can throw 10 out and let the other 30 survive," said Mr. Rowe, who is chairman and CEO of the privately held IMP Group of Halifax, which controls CanJet.
"It’s a tough decision."
At the time of the announcement, Mr. Rowe said the decision was based on "rising business risks."
CanJet chief operating officer Julie Gossen said in a message on the airline’s website these included higher fuel costs, increased airport fees and more competition on the airline’s primary routes.
"It wasn’t achieving the returns that we expect from our divisions," Mr. Rowe said Wednesday.
He said he hopes to be able to rehire all the airline employees if the company’s new charter plan works out.
"We kept 70 (CanJet workers), re-engineered it, now we’re hiring back over 100 and maybe, within two or three years, we may have more than the original 500, particularly if we go to international charters and things like that," he said, pointing out that three of the most profitable airlines in Europe are charters.
CanJet has signed a charter contract with tour operator Sunquest and is negotiating with similar businesses, although Mr. Rowe wouldn’t name them.
He said charter flights will originate from Halifax and Toronto and will fly to Cuba, Mexico, the Dominican Republic, the Bahamas and Jamaica.
"Our primary focus will be to serve as an independent carrier to various tour operators and other organizations that require aircraft for charter," he said, adding that CanJet, which will operate six 118-seat Boeing 737 aircraft, might consider reoffering scheduled flights during peak travel periods.
CanJet is integrating its new charter service with its Execaire corporate aircraft service of Montreal, and Mr. Rowe said he’s confident the combination will generate substantial new charter business, which he said is less risky than scheduled service.
"You recover your costs as long as you fly the mission," he said. "You’re not waiting, booking seats and then flying a third or a half of them empty sometimes."
Some CanJet employees said they were shocked by what they called a sudden decision to end scheduled service, but Mr. Rowe defended the timing of his announcement.
"With an airline, as the CEO, I’m legally responsible . . . so my first concern with what we do and how we do it, is the safety of those aircraft and all aboard them," he said, noting that other airlines in similar circumstances have simply declared bankruptcy and left their passengers stranded. "What I had to do was measure the time between customer inconvenience and flight safety."
The Air Line Pilots Association, International, which represents recently certified CanJet pilots, complained before the Sept. 5 announcement that the company wasn’t negotiating a first contract with them and suggested that the flight shutdown was a form of union-busting.
Mr. Rowe discounted those claims Wednesday, noting that IMP Group has unionized workers among its 3,500 employees. He said the company simply didn’t want to enter into contract talks with the pilots when there was a real possibility that their jobs might disappear.
"We, for months, had been looking at this situation, so they were really off the radar screen because the chances were, until we had a viable re-engineered business plan like we’ve come up with, there wasn’t going to be anyone."
Pilots Association spokesman Pete Janhunen said from Washington that the union was "encouraged" by Wednesday’s rehiring announcement, adding that it intends to support CanJet pilots in negotiating a collective bargaining agreement with the airline.
Marilyne White, a national representative with the Canadian Union of Public Employees, which in October begins contract talks with the airline on behalf of flight attendants, said the rehiring was "great news" for CanJet employees and the Nova Scotia economy.
"We have a commitment in writing that they will bring them back in order of seniority," she said in an interview from Vancouver, adding that it’s feasible that CanJet could hire back all its laid-off employees.
( berskine@herald.ca)
trainer you are an idiot.
every one that is going back, are only going to be there until they find something better. if you dont beleive this you are an idiot.
the only reason KR started it up again was because he has lease payments...what do you think is going to happen when they are up....
he did not start the company to give pilots a job, he started so he would not lose to much money.
Some of the most senior people i have talked are looking elsewhere, and that is from #3-5 in seniority, they have had it. We are burnt out from all of this, it is to hard on the head and to hard on the families.
You talk about ALPA.(negatively of coarse) but, you idiot they were going to hire back out of seniority...way to go idiot....do you remember the 6,7,8 days off, no weekends off for 6 months...probably not you little shit. That's why ALPA is here, not for the money....you make me wanna puke....
These are great people that worked here, you can't do this to people and their families..the only reason he is still paying us is because its the law...idiot
I hope we never fly together, cause if we do, you better bring a book to read.
Still PO'D
every one that is going back, are only going to be there until they find something better. if you dont beleive this you are an idiot.
the only reason KR started it up again was because he has lease payments...what do you think is going to happen when they are up....
he did not start the company to give pilots a job, he started so he would not lose to much money.
Some of the most senior people i have talked are looking elsewhere, and that is from #3-5 in seniority, they have had it. We are burnt out from all of this, it is to hard on the head and to hard on the families.
You talk about ALPA.(negatively of coarse) but, you idiot they were going to hire back out of seniority...way to go idiot....do you remember the 6,7,8 days off, no weekends off for 6 months...probably not you little shit. That's why ALPA is here, not for the money....you make me wanna puke....
These are great people that worked here, you can't do this to people and their families..the only reason he is still paying us is because its the law...idiot
I hope we never fly together, cause if we do, you better bring a book to read.
Still PO'D
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737daytripper
- Rank 1
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 9:34 am
Trainer, you are right. None of us have the foggiest idea of what just happened at CanJet and neither do you.
In my opinion he was making money however probably not a whole lot and he was probably looking at a loss in the short term. That’s just my somewhat educated opinion, just as you have yours. Unless you have seen financial records you have no idea that he was losing money. Anything coming from the COO’s mouth must be taken with a large grain of salt as I doubt the she has any idea either.
It’s no secret that KR is after the transat contract that WestJet currently has and this whole reshuffling of the company has a lot to do with securing that contract. On paper this might sound like a good idea. His costs will be much lower than what anybody else could offer transat and KR’s obvious priority would be to transat and not a scheduled service. However in practice I think that it will prove much more difficult as must pilots to be recalled will only come back until they get a call from WJ, AC or any other carrier that will not turf them without a second thought.
All WestJet would have to do to keep Canjet from securing the Transat contract would be to hire aggressively from the current Canjet captain pool. Most would go. However there are some, like trainer, who have been burned by KR more than once and are willing to get burned again. Some people are just a glutton for punishment.
I wish everybody that goes back all the best and I wish Canjet the best of luck but I think that after this last stunt KR has damaged his reputation beyond repair with most of his Canjet employee group. There is no trust with this man and his lack of ethics.
In my opinion he was making money however probably not a whole lot and he was probably looking at a loss in the short term. That’s just my somewhat educated opinion, just as you have yours. Unless you have seen financial records you have no idea that he was losing money. Anything coming from the COO’s mouth must be taken with a large grain of salt as I doubt the she has any idea either.
It’s no secret that KR is after the transat contract that WestJet currently has and this whole reshuffling of the company has a lot to do with securing that contract. On paper this might sound like a good idea. His costs will be much lower than what anybody else could offer transat and KR’s obvious priority would be to transat and not a scheduled service. However in practice I think that it will prove much more difficult as must pilots to be recalled will only come back until they get a call from WJ, AC or any other carrier that will not turf them without a second thought.
All WestJet would have to do to keep Canjet from securing the Transat contract would be to hire aggressively from the current Canjet captain pool. Most would go. However there are some, like trainer, who have been burned by KR more than once and are willing to get burned again. Some people are just a glutton for punishment.
I wish everybody that goes back all the best and I wish Canjet the best of luck but I think that after this last stunt KR has damaged his reputation beyond repair with most of his Canjet employee group. There is no trust with this man and his lack of ethics.
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hind sight
- Rank 3
- Posts: 125
- Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:06 am
Boy oh boy Trainer.
By your post i can guess your identity.
Your beloved Kenny FIRED his employees rather then laying them off. Wonder why?
Yes other jobs won't provide the ideal living situation as CanJet but you might find that there are others that are close and if you try something new you might just like it.
Such a typical response from the golden Air Atlantic boys who always seem to float to the top.
You are just listening to his tune cause you really have no more options.
Good luck.
By your post i can guess your identity.
Your beloved Kenny FIRED his employees rather then laying them off. Wonder why?
Yes other jobs won't provide the ideal living situation as CanJet but you might find that there are others that are close and if you try something new you might just like it.
Such a typical response from the golden Air Atlantic boys who always seem to float to the top.
You are just listening to his tune cause you really have no more options.
Good luck.
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Flaps30Greenlight
- Rank 1
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:48 pm
- Location: Back in YYZ hotel again
- Contact:
Trainer,
You know as well as the rest of the pilots at Canjet that money WASN"T the reason over 90% signed the cards. It was days off, no weekends off as well as pitifull benifits. I think and you will agree that very few complained about the money. Most complained of the lack of benifits, a crappy overtome policy and time off, as well as long duty days. Have you forgotton the augmented crewing flights. 15 hours in a 37 junp seat isn't good. 8 days off per month, no weekends blah blah. the fact that they totally went against the little pilot rules and guidlines thingy that we had. Even though it was getting better towards the end we never forgot the past and thats why ALPA was voted in by line pilots and some management pilots alike.
Do you not understand that people left to goto Westjet, AC, etc, not for the money but they left for better benifits, better skeds, and better job secuirty.
I think its great that they are calling people back and I hope it works out for everyone. hopefully poeple can work, provide for their familes, get some good time, stay or go, but lets be realstic, do you really think he is in it for the long term. time will tell I guess.
You know as well as the rest of the pilots at Canjet that money WASN"T the reason over 90% signed the cards. It was days off, no weekends off as well as pitifull benifits. I think and you will agree that very few complained about the money. Most complained of the lack of benifits, a crappy overtome policy and time off, as well as long duty days. Have you forgotton the augmented crewing flights. 15 hours in a 37 junp seat isn't good. 8 days off per month, no weekends blah blah. the fact that they totally went against the little pilot rules and guidlines thingy that we had. Even though it was getting better towards the end we never forgot the past and thats why ALPA was voted in by line pilots and some management pilots alike.
Do you not understand that people left to goto Westjet, AC, etc, not for the money but they left for better benifits, better skeds, and better job secuirty.
I think its great that they are calling people back and I hope it works out for everyone. hopefully poeple can work, provide for their familes, get some good time, stay or go, but lets be realstic, do you really think he is in it for the long term. time will tell I guess.
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flynbutcher
- Rank 5
- Posts: 319
- Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 6:19 pm
- Location: 867-5309
po'dcjer wrote:trainer you are an idiot.
every one that is going back, are only going to be there until they find something better. if you dont beleive this you are an idiot.
the only reason KR started it up again was because he has lease payments...what do you think is going to happen when they are up....
he did not start the company to give pilots a job, he started so he would not lose to much money.
Some of the most senior people i have talked are looking elsewhere, and that is from #3-5 in seniority, they have had it. We are burnt out from all of this, it is to hard on the head and to hard on the families.
You talk about ALPA.(negatively of coarse) but, you idiot they were going to hire back out of seniority...way to go idiot....do you remember the 6,7,8 days off, no weekends off for 6 months...probably not you little shit. That's why ALPA is here, not for the money....you make me wanna puke....
These are great people that worked here, you can't do this to people and their families..the only reason he is still paying us is because its the law...idiot
I hope we never fly together, cause if we do, you better bring a book to read.
Still PO'D
very well said po'd
1 more point.
Trainer how do YOU know that Canjet wasn't making any money. I believe it was, just not enough to satisfy a giant parent company. If you read everything that KR has said is that it wasn't meeting its goals. Not once did he say it wasn't making money.
Please fill the rest of us in on how you know it wasn't making money. Since you typed the fact that we wern't in bold littering I'm thinking you know. So share with the rest of the class
Trainer how do YOU know that Canjet wasn't making any money. I believe it was, just not enough to satisfy a giant parent company. If you read everything that KR has said is that it wasn't meeting its goals. Not once did he say it wasn't making money.
Please fill the rest of us in on how you know it wasn't making money. Since you typed the fact that we wern't in bold littering I'm thinking you know. So share with the rest of the class
CanJet
Calm down guys.
1st of all, I do not work for CJ, but I do know some of boys. But your right, I don't know any more than anyone else, which was my point, the speculation you guys were putting out there to the whole world is likely incorrect and not based on fact.
2nd, I can only go by what was announced in the press conferences. he said he wasn't making money I took that at face value.............if it was making money why shut it down.
3rd, some of your posts seem somewhat slanderous and I think you guys should be careful what you say because others read this stuff. Encourage the man to go forward so that you all get your jobs back. also, the industry reads this stuff and, I am sorry, but it does read somewhat over the top.
4th, the grass may look greener.........well you know what I mean. NS is a great place to live and you think later that things were not as bad as you thought.
Anyway, having experienced it myself, I appreciate the tough spot you guys are in and I hope you all get back to work sooner rather than later.
No offence intended to anyone.
Take care and good luck.
Post removed by the way..............
T
1st of all, I do not work for CJ, but I do know some of boys. But your right, I don't know any more than anyone else, which was my point, the speculation you guys were putting out there to the whole world is likely incorrect and not based on fact.
2nd, I can only go by what was announced in the press conferences. he said he wasn't making money I took that at face value.............if it was making money why shut it down.
3rd, some of your posts seem somewhat slanderous and I think you guys should be careful what you say because others read this stuff. Encourage the man to go forward so that you all get your jobs back. also, the industry reads this stuff and, I am sorry, but it does read somewhat over the top.
4th, the grass may look greener.........well you know what I mean. NS is a great place to live and you think later that things were not as bad as you thought.
Anyway, having experienced it myself, I appreciate the tough spot you guys are in and I hope you all get back to work sooner rather than later.
No offence intended to anyone.
Take care and good luck.
Post removed by the way..............
T
CanJet
Calm down guys.
1st of all, I do not work for CJ, but I do know some of boys. But your right, I don't know any more than anyone else, which was my point, the speculation you guys were putting out there to the whole world is likely incorrect and not based on fact.
2nd, I can only go by what was announced in the press conferences. he said he wasn't making money I took that at face value.............if it was making money why shut it down.
3rd, some of your posts seem somewhat slanderous and I think you guys should be careful what you say because others read this stuff. Encourage the man to go forward so that you all get your jobs back. also, the industry reads this stuff and, I am sorry, but it does read somewhat over the top.
4th, the grass may look greener.........well you know what I mean. NS is a great place to live and you think later that things were not as bad as you thought.
Anyway, having experienced it myself, I appreciate the tough spot you guys are in and I hope you all get back to work sooner rather than later.
No offence intended to anyone.
Take care and good luck.
Post removed by the way..............
T
1st of all, I do not work for CJ, but I do know some of boys. But your right, I don't know any more than anyone else, which was my point, the speculation you guys were putting out there to the whole world is likely incorrect and not based on fact.
2nd, I can only go by what was announced in the press conferences. he said he wasn't making money I took that at face value.............if it was making money why shut it down.
3rd, some of your posts seem somewhat slanderous and I think you guys should be careful what you say because others read this stuff. Encourage the man to go forward so that you all get your jobs back. also, the industry reads this stuff and, I am sorry, but it does read somewhat over the top.
4th, the grass may look greener.........well you know what I mean. NS is a great place to live and you think later that things were not as bad as you thought.
Anyway, having experienced it myself, I appreciate the tough spot you guys are in and I hope you all get back to work sooner rather than later.
No offence intended to anyone.
Take care and good luck.
Post removed by the way..............
T
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737daytripper
- Rank 1
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 9:34 am
Trainer,
on point 2: He didn't announce that he wasn't making money, he said that canjet wasn't meeting IMP requirements in terms of profit : i.e. he wasn't making enough money.
And just so everybody can see your earlier brilliance:
on point 2: He didn't announce that he wasn't making money, he said that canjet wasn't meeting IMP requirements in terms of profit : i.e. he wasn't making enough money.
And just so everybody can see your earlier brilliance:
You guys make me laugh. None of you have the foggiest of why, how and what just happened at CanJet. If KR tries to make CanJet work 15 times in a row who are you to judge him. KR is willing to spend his money to try this again and provide jobs for pilots.
CJ2 wasn't making money........be thankful he didn't close it all together. Pilots layed off, terminated or whatever got severence and are still being paid. Did that happen at InterCanadien...no. Did that happen at C3....no. Did that happen at Jetsgo....no.
Now people are being hired back, if you don't want to go to CJ3, don't. Many of the guys I have talked to do though and are willing to try if he is. If No. 3 makes it great!
Go for it Ken, I say. If you remake CJ into a large successful charter op and create work for pilots and their families in NS....more power to ya. Hope you make lots of money so that pilots will have jobs.
The benefits may not match westJet but they are reasonable for living in Halifax. Didn't you guys get 2 increases since 2002 without the help of ALPA? That was likely to improve without their help. So what will you do? Go work for Jazz in YYZ for 35K? Go to WJ in Calgary for 40K, or maybe AC in YYZ for 35K. Goto Sunwing and leave your family to work out of the UK for 8 months a year? How about Tokyo or China or Nigeria or Ethiopia or Delhi. Goto to homedepot maybe?, or go back and fly your metro's, beech's navajo's or whatever.......
Not looking so bad now is it?
Frankly, making between 70 and 100k in NS aint bad living and you get to fly a gorgeous glass airplane.
So, if you don't like it, don't go. I know a bunch of guys that are ready to try.
All the ranting and whining is not professional and embarasses the professional airline pilots who sought to give CanJet a solid reputation in the industry as a safe and professional carrier.
With names like: Green Bastard; Uwill Pay; Fying Butcher, Po'dcjer.....!? etc, do you know how you look to the rest of the industry? Those pseudonyms say it all............give me a break.
Now, have at me. I'm all yours. Show me what you got.
T
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rickenbacker
- Rank 2
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 9:23 am
I find it funny that people keep saying R isn't in it for the long haul. This is his 4th attempt at running an airline in an extremely cut throat environment. The only thing R is guilty of is treating his employees with great indifference. And that's an understatement. The only reason ALPA is here is because of the total lack of regard Canjet showed it's employees.
But he's never cheated anyone out of any money. He payes what he owes.
But it's got to cost a hell of a lot of money to have 6 A/C sitting on the ramp, to break lease payments, and to have 100 employees on the payroll when there's no money coming in.
I find it interesting that there's no anger directed at Westjet or AC!! Don't you think they had anything to do with the restructering at CJ. They were both getting ready to take put CJ under this fall.
What bruises your egos it that you're not treated with the level of importance that you think you are entitled to. Your view and R's differ slightly. Check your emotions at the door, look at the big picture, weigh all the issues and make the decision that you feel is right for you. Then don't look back.
But he's never cheated anyone out of any money. He payes what he owes.
But it's got to cost a hell of a lot of money to have 6 A/C sitting on the ramp, to break lease payments, and to have 100 employees on the payroll when there's no money coming in.
I find it interesting that there's no anger directed at Westjet or AC!! Don't you think they had anything to do with the restructering at CJ. They were both getting ready to take put CJ under this fall.
What bruises your egos it that you're not treated with the level of importance that you think you are entitled to. Your view and R's differ slightly. Check your emotions at the door, look at the big picture, weigh all the issues and make the decision that you feel is right for you. Then don't look back.
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WhiteBeacon
- Rank 2
- Posts: 50
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:16 pm
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rickenbacker
- Rank 2
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 9:23 am
whitebeacon,
you got it...if you're thinking irrationally in the first place there's no stopping you...and you seem to be on the right track.
Small airlines will never be able to make a go of it in Canada as long as the bigger ones can put them under anytime they want. It used to be Air Canada and Canadian. Now it's Westjet and Air Canada. What I'm saying is that in the big picture, competition (Westjet and Air Canada) were part of the reason R decided to do what he did. Part of it...That's it.
All of R's previous attempts have been thwarted by cut throat competition. Competition where no one is making any money, just who can outlast who. And it's not over.
This move now seems to try and get out of that sensless game. Have a contract, fly the charters and not be affected by the cutthroat sched business. It makes sense to me.
He'll probably do what the rest of the charter outfits do. Fly the money makers during the best part of the year....skim the cream and move on.
All the pissed of employees have a good right to be pissed off. They were treated like they didnt exist, like they never mattered and that they were disposible. CJ used words like valued employee, team and leadership. Employee of the month!!!! Stealing right from the WJ hadbook. They just never meant them. They also though the employees were stupid and fell for this BS.
Be pissed of for that, be hurt for that, be resentfull for that...don't go back for that. That's all they're really guilty of.
It makes the Order of Canada an award to no longer admire someone for getting.
you got it...if you're thinking irrationally in the first place there's no stopping you...and you seem to be on the right track.
Small airlines will never be able to make a go of it in Canada as long as the bigger ones can put them under anytime they want. It used to be Air Canada and Canadian. Now it's Westjet and Air Canada. What I'm saying is that in the big picture, competition (Westjet and Air Canada) were part of the reason R decided to do what he did. Part of it...That's it.
All of R's previous attempts have been thwarted by cut throat competition. Competition where no one is making any money, just who can outlast who. And it's not over.
This move now seems to try and get out of that sensless game. Have a contract, fly the charters and not be affected by the cutthroat sched business. It makes sense to me.
He'll probably do what the rest of the charter outfits do. Fly the money makers during the best part of the year....skim the cream and move on.
All the pissed of employees have a good right to be pissed off. They were treated like they didnt exist, like they never mattered and that they were disposible. CJ used words like valued employee, team and leadership. Employee of the month!!!! Stealing right from the WJ hadbook. They just never meant them. They also though the employees were stupid and fell for this BS.
Be pissed of for that, be hurt for that, be resentfull for that...don't go back for that. That's all they're really guilty of.
It makes the Order of Canada an award to no longer admire someone for getting.
-
flyin' fish
- Rank 3
- Posts: 144
- Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:57 am
- Location: Halifax
Trainer, I hope you have some defence for those follow up comments. I can see some of your points, but let's look at some reality here.
Most people are a little ticked at this shutdown of sked operations because we've seen a good product for the eastcoast being mismanaged. I give credit to marketing but low marks to ones in charge of determining ticket price and scheduling. We had a very strong showing in Deer Lake. You couldn't get out of St. John's on pass for weeks in August, and even before and after it was hard. Basically, Montreal was the only run that showed weakness.
What I'm saying is that last winter the scheduling was tight for charters and plenty of delays followed. Let's not forget St. Marteen as well. When things are that tight, problems are going to arise.
When the loads are good, but the yeilds are not there, then that's a management problem. If you can't make money on those loads, then yes shut it down. This airline could have kept it's eastcoast philosophy for places like Fort McMurray and Edmonton to get people home to Newfoundland or where ever.
Ken Rowe is a smart business man and will make decisions based on the numbers. He'll probably do well with CanJet 2.5, because he stepped in and dealt with the problem that was snowballing. The problem I have is that it got to this point and alot of people are and will be left in the cold because of, I'll say it again, mismanagement. I hope KR watches things little more closely this time.
You are right, there are alot of advantages to working at CanJet, but in the end, is it worth it? If I get called back, I'll gladly come back and enjoy the job I've had before. However, my dukes are up, like alot of people, and I'll take the next best offer.
Most people are a little ticked at this shutdown of sked operations because we've seen a good product for the eastcoast being mismanaged. I give credit to marketing but low marks to ones in charge of determining ticket price and scheduling. We had a very strong showing in Deer Lake. You couldn't get out of St. John's on pass for weeks in August, and even before and after it was hard. Basically, Montreal was the only run that showed weakness.
What I'm saying is that last winter the scheduling was tight for charters and plenty of delays followed. Let's not forget St. Marteen as well. When things are that tight, problems are going to arise.
When the loads are good, but the yeilds are not there, then that's a management problem. If you can't make money on those loads, then yes shut it down. This airline could have kept it's eastcoast philosophy for places like Fort McMurray and Edmonton to get people home to Newfoundland or where ever.
Ken Rowe is a smart business man and will make decisions based on the numbers. He'll probably do well with CanJet 2.5, because he stepped in and dealt with the problem that was snowballing. The problem I have is that it got to this point and alot of people are and will be left in the cold because of, I'll say it again, mismanagement. I hope KR watches things little more closely this time.
You are right, there are alot of advantages to working at CanJet, but in the end, is it worth it? If I get called back, I'll gladly come back and enjoy the job I've had before. However, my dukes are up, like alot of people, and I'll take the next best offer.
ooooo, you guys are even lazier than me!
Re: CanJet
Trainer,Trainer wrote:Calm down guys.
1st of all, I do not work for CJ, but I do know some of boys. But your right, I don't know any more than anyone else, which was my point, the speculation you guys were putting out there to the whole world is likely incorrect and not based on fact.
2nd, I can only go by what was announced in the press conferences. he said he wasn't making money I took that at face value.............if it was making money why shut it down.
3rd, some of your posts seem somewhat slanderous and I think you guys should be careful what you say because others read this stuff. Encourage the man to go forward so that you all get your jobs back. also, the industry reads this stuff and, I am sorry, but it does read somewhat over the top.
4th, the grass may look greener.........well you know what I mean. NS is a great place to live and you think later that things were not as bad as you thought.
Anyway, having experienced it myself, I appreciate the tough spot you guys are in and I hope you all get back to work sooner rather than later.
No offence intended to anyone.
Take care and good luck.
Post removed by the way..............
T
You're right in this goes out to the whole world, so will you please listen to yourself. Again in point #2 you said again that Canjet never made any money. I've read all of the releases internal and expernal, listened to the press conference and watched the news reports and interviews. Everytime he said that Canjet wasn't meeting its goals. Simple as that.
it was well known internally that Canjet was making money, they just wouldn't admit it. But thats a whole other story that I won't get into.
He said in the press conference when asked that IMP gave Canjet 4 years to meet its goals which it didn't do so he shifted the company focus.
