Who to avoid???

outter_marker · Post by **outter_marker** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:42 pm

I am getting ready for a class 4 ride (pacific region) any advice, any examiners I should avoid? Who is JD at the pacific office someone PM me if you know.

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:51 pm

Know your stuff, and you don't have to avoid anyone.

Good luck.

STL

outter_marker · Post by **outter_marker** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:58 pm

I know my stuff (theres always more that will come with experience), but I have heard some guys are out to sink you, and some guys are out to teach you something that will make you better. I want to pass and hopefully learn something from my examiner as well. Just looking for peoples opinions of who to avoid (horror stories) as well as who taught them something new that made them a better instructor afterwards.

om

5x5 · Post by **5x5** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:23 pm

I agree with STL - don't worry about the examiner. All you'll do is get yourself focused on the wrong things. Anyone's opinion on here is pretty much suspect anyways since we're mostly annonymous. And even if we aren't, my opinion is only that - mine. You or anyone else might completely disagree. Besides, if I told you so-and-so is a real prick and you got him for your test, what would you do different? Would you call and ask for someone else? Would you call in sick and hope to get rescheduled with someone else? Or would you go to the test with a feeling of dread and possibly wind up making mistakes because you are distracted?

Know your stuff, do what they ask, clarify if you're not sure what they mean, and all will be well.

Beacon Final · Post by **Beacon Final** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:33 pm

After my class 4 ride the examiner compared me on many occasions to a lady in my course. He noted that she remembered to do this or she tried that and how well she did. I did a good ride, not my best but it was good. As it turns out he did this with everyone he did rides with from our course. The thing was she took around 50 hours to prepare for her ride and the rest of us 30 to 33 hrs... the normal amount.

I have been wary about doing any rides with that guy ever since and decided not too worry about it and focus on kicking ass....

Thats the key, dont worry about anyone but yourself.... oh and dont do drugs.

outter_marker · Post by **outter_marker** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:19 pm

Thanks for the advice... maybe I'm just getting too worked up and nervous and wanting to know exactly what to expect. My PPL and CPL ride were just a matter of redoing everything I did on my pre-flight tests and this can be so many things that I'm not really sure what to expect.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:20 pm

" Who is JD at the pacific office "

Interesting that you would focus on one individual.

If it is the JD I know PM me and I'll give you some background.

Cat

North Shore · Post by **North Shore** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:42 pm

Years ago, during my private ride, the examiner (who was also CFI at the club where I learned) gave me grief (well-deserved, I might add..) on the de brief for "not keeping a good lookout for other VFR traffic" during one of the exercises. I solemnly promised to do so in future, and hey presto - one brand new PPL. Fast forward a few years, and it's my Class IV ride - and guess who I draw? Yup....same guy. We walk into the briefing room for the ride, and start. 'Course, he wants to hear/see the very same exercise that he gave me grief on in the past - so I give it to him - complete with an ostentatious warning to "keep a good eye out for other traffic in the area, as, during my private ride, I was almost failed for not doing so." A ghost of a smile passed across the examiner's face, and we went flying, and I got my Class IV.

J.M , Pacific Region. A great guy.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:03 am

Don't be afraid of anyone. Know your stuff, show up and do the best job you can. If you flunk, I guarantee you that you will learn something, and will do a better job next time.

It's not the end of the world if you fail a ride. Your girlfriend will probably still have sex with you ok?

For a class 4 ride:

1) know the CARs. Bring a printed out binder of 401/421/405/425/406/426/602/605 for reference.

2) know the flight test guides. Bring them too.

3) Know the AIM, FTGU and the FTM. Use them if possible during the ground prep lesson.

4) Bring a POH for your airplane, and know it cold - emergency procedures, etc.

5) know the FIG. Learning factors and how to apply them

6) ask questions - involve the student

7) have ground prep lessons prepared for EVERY LESSON.

if he asks you a question that you don't know the answer to, DON'T BLUFF - tell him to hold on a minute while you look it up in the 3 foot stack of references that you brought with you. A ride is NOT A RACE!

9) Know theory of flight. Most instructors couldn't explain their way out of a wet paper bag on this one. Be able to draw Cl and Cd curves on the board. The lift equation. The equation for kinetic energy. Graphically derive the power curve.

10) Most importantly, know how to teach and demonstrate a forced approach, because that's probably what you're going to get.

11) Be able to teach attitudes and movements on the ground, and in the air - it's a tough one, and an important one.

The hardest part of the ride is on the ground. If you make it to the airplane, you've got it made. It is possible to flunk an instructor ride in the air, but it is very rare and you have to work very hard at it, to do so.

After your ride, re-read the above and tell me if I missed the mark.

P.S. I'm a class one instructor and class one aerobatic instructor. Been CFI at various different schools over the past 15 years. Transport hates my fucking guts, but perhaps some of what I have learned might be useful to you.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:29 am

Also if while in the air you screw something up - like a demonstrated forced approach (you miss the field) just say that was a poor example and lets try that again. They cannot fail you for messing up a demonstration, as long as you admit it was bad and you retry it.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:10 am

AAhhh, I just love these threads about thugs in the employ of the regulator.

So please someone can you explain to me why TC keeps these bullies in their employ?

In the world of commerce these people would be kicked out on their asses for driving business away.

outter_marker · Post by **outter_marker** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:12 pm

Hedley wrote:It's not the end of the world if you fail a ride. Your girlfriend will probably still have sex with you ok?

Thats just the problem, she said if I fail I'm cut-off!!!

More Hawker Than Sidley · Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:11 am

...I agree with Cat, but it seems that for every bad egg in TC that we get rid of then two seem to take the place. When we do meet a good Inspector and there ARE many of them, they seem to be in such a contrast to the other types that we are upset to the point of distraction....that there could be really good Inspectors and then such lousy ones. The difference really is that the good ones actually care about the candidates and the lousy ones couldnt give a s**t about the candidate. The complaints against TC are gradually working however and even the Flight Instructor Rating flight tests are being given out to Pilot Examiners...Initials and Upgrades...not yet, hopefully soon however. There are three PE's in the Ontario Region that can do Renewal Class 2,3,4 Rating flight tests and having flown with them all, have found them very good at what they do and with NO hidden agendas. IMHO....mhts.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:31 am

Wonderful, at least with a pilot examiner the customers will determine who stays in business.

The next logical progression would be to turn enforcement over to the RCMP and get rid of TC in that area.

And we should have access to a real court of law, not the TC Kangaroo court.

gr8gazu · Post by **gr8gazu** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:45 am

KAG wrote:They cannot fail you for messing up a demonstration, as long as you admit it was bad and you retry it.

That is not totally true. It really depends on the examiner. There are dickheads at TC that can and will fail you on it and even try to use your own recognition of fault against you in a tribunal.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:59 am

Exactly, TCCA is a law on to their own with far to many who have utter distain for the law.

The Tribunal is sort of like having the U.S. ACLU sitting in on judgement of NAMBLA.

I wouldn't trust any TC official to tell me the correct time of day.

Cat

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:04 pm

Nobody is really out to "sink" you. Sorry Cat. Most are out there to try and get your best out of you. Rides have been failed. Not usually because of the examiner though. And, as KAG says, if it is going bad, say so, and start again. Most will cut you a little slack for nerves. Same with an IFR ride. It it's going out the window, call a missed, and go do it again. But I wouldn't be too worried about which examiner you "draw", just relax and treat it as "just another day at the office".

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:03 pm

Yeh Doc I agree " most" are O.K and fair examiners.

However how about the rogues who just love to show how much power they have?

And you had better get out and around more Doc if you think that some will not " sink " you if they have a reason to especially if they are under pressure from their masters.

Sorry Doc on this you and I are poles apart.

Cat

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:00 pm

Do you think this "sinking" happens on first rides...or mostly renewals once they have a "history" with a guy?

gr8gazu · Post by **gr8gazu** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:06 pm

Doc wrote:Do you think this "sinking" happens on first rides...or mostly renewals once they have a "history" with a guy?

I went 30 years without an SB on a flight check and then failed a ride with an absolute idiot of a TC inspector.

Don't worry, he was proven quite the stooge at Tribunal and lost.

I will post the story when it wraps up... hopefully by year end.

It wasn't my first ride and my history was unblemished...

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:50 pm

It is a disgrase when any person in TC can use their position for their own personal agendas.

I have taken so many rides over the past five decades I couldn't possibly recall most of them.

Except one in Edmonton.

A real prick failed me twice in a row on a IFR ride the only two I ever failed, turned out he was a friend of one of the TC guys who got booted over the Air West affair and he was getting even with me.

The failures were so obviously cooked up that I mailed my ATPL to the head of TC in Edmonton and told him I was going to continue to fly without it.

Six months later they met with me and gave me back my license and a written apology for the actions of their Inspector.

So dealing with TC is a real game of Russian Roullette, you never know when you will hit the live one.

Who to avoid???

Who to avoid???

i do

my ride

...

ride