The future of private aviation.

[Cat Driver]

I have had enough of retirement so I am going back to work.

The ever rising cost of operating certified aircraft is slowly driving people away from private flying.

The future is in LSA and home built aircraft, so I am going to get into that sector of flying and start a new career in aviation.

Of course living in Lotus Land where we can fly year round on floats means I will concentrate on amphibian aircraft, so I plan on starting with a ten year plan before retiring again if I get tired of it.

Cat

[. ._]

HAHA!

That's why I got into flying kinda. I thought, "What would I do if I was retired?" Fly planes.

So I just figured why wait till retirement?

Anyways, people that retire with nothing to do die early.

The Cat came back,
The very next day,
The Cat came back,
They thought he was a gonner,
But the Cat came back.
He just couldn't stay awaaaaay...

-istp

[Luscombe]

Another sector that seems to be growing is owner-maintenance.

I switched my Luscombe's C of A to O-M a couple of years ago. Best thing I ever did to keep my recreational flying costs down. There's absolutely no way I would be able to keep flying with today's costs unless I did this. Much like home-builts, it's not for everyone though. I spend a whole lot more time rather than money keeping her flying, but I would much rather do this. My plane looks much better and flys better than it ever did as a certified aircraft since it now gets all the attention it deserves instead of what was necessary to keep it legal.

I also find it a whole lot of fun.

[v6g]

I have had enough of retirement so I am going back to work.

... can I take over your retirement for you - just for a few weeks?

[shitdisturber]

I have had enough of retirement so I am going back to work.

The missus got sick of you hanging around the house all day did she?

[Hornblower]

The future is in LSA and home built aircraft, so I am going to get into that sector of flying and start a new career in aviation.
Cat

OK, ... so why not go whole hog and do the owner maintenance thing. No rules at all. You can even use a previously certified aircraft, and do amazing stuff that you can't even do with a homebuilt.

No limits mods. I'd like to see you with a Walters turbine powered, stretched, amphib 172. Cool. You are maybe one of the guys that could get it done.

[Cat Driver]

Hornblower:

Stunning, superb idea.

And there are a lot of airplanes that can go owner maintenance.

Are you sure you can change anything you want without an inspection from the authorities, such as put Cub wings on a Champ for instance?

[Hornblower]

As far as I know you can. There are no restrictions on major mods as owner maintenance airplanes seem to be exempt from the approved/specified data requirements of CAR 571.06.

I know there are some interesting mods out there. There are at least two Republic Sea Bees flying around with Corvette L-82 (?) engines in them (in Ontario I think).

Cool idea about the Cub wings on the Champ, take the best from both and make a decent aircraft. How about stretched Cub wings on a Sedan or a Stinson? . Maybe with flaperons too. An O-470 swingin' an 88" blade would be nice on a Stinson with a decent wing and a cargo door chopped in the left side.

Shit, ... the possibilities are endless.

[bandit1]

I had an Owner Maintenance PA-20 on floats and skis that I sold last year. It was great! I could bolt on any mod I wanted too and TC couldn't do a thing about it.

I was increasing the safety of the plane by adding wing extensions, VG's, shoulder harnesses, extended gear, etc etc without having to pay for stupid paperwork (STC)

[ian254]

Now this is going to makes some of you upset but this is the truth. From what I have seen out there most airplanes that are owner maintained or homebuilt are built to standards that are lower then most cars out there. Its sad to see that there is airplanes out there that are so unsafe are aloud to fly over populated areas just like the much more safe certified, but I do have to say that there is lots of certified aircraft that aren't in much better shape out there, transport needs to change so that airplanes mechanically are safe not just safe on paper. Most transport inspectors don't know anything at all what they are looking at or looking for when it comes to airplanes.

[l_reason]

I’m tossing around the idea of changing my plane over. I found this a couple days ago from copa. http://www.eaa.org/communications/eaane ... _guide.pdf If anyone has any other informative links please pass them on.

There is a list of planes that are eligible as well as a list of some pros and cons to changing to O-M.

One of the V8 Sea-Bees in Ontario has now gone to the homebuilt category after a “Rebuild”

[Hornblower]

I’m tossing around the idea of changing my plane over. I found this a couple days ago from copa. http://www.eaa.org/communications/eaane ... _guide.pdf If anyone has any other informative links please pass them on.

That COPA doc is maybe a little flawed. It talks about acceptable data being required for all mods, however the rules do not support that concept, neither does practice. To me it reads like you don't need any data for a major mod, and acceptable data for other mods.

Hey don't blame me for the seeming inconsistency, I didn't write the rules. As for the Minister having the final say on what is acceptable, that doesn't seem to be supported by the rules either.

All I know is there has been some pretty far out stuff done, and I think that was the intent of the owner-maintenance category.

Bandit 1;

How do you think the owner-maintenance cert affected your resale value?

Ian254;

How old are you?

Come on Cat Driver, how about something really spectacular

[longjon]

Jeez 254 not hard to tell English is not your first language, we don.t dis believe but get a grip this is America.

[Landlocked]

There was a very, very cool T-craft amphib listed here for sale that I would have snappped up in a heartbeat if I had the cash. Gross weight was way up that would allow for two plus full tanks..got me tinkin...why not a 150/150 on amphibs? The freakin' "homebuilts" are no different.

[Hornblower]

There ...why not a 150/150 on amphibs? The freakin' "homebuilts" are no different.

I've seen a couple of 150 150s. They are not that impressive on straight floats. I think they would be useless on amphibs.

The Walters powered stretched 172, ... now that'd be sweet.

[DGuy]

Hornblower, I am sure there must be some limitations. Can You for instance fly in the USA with a OM-airplane. Resale value must be substancially lower than if the aircraft was operated in the certified category. Recertifying, if needed, might be a very costly affair.

[Luscombe]

You can't fly in the US without special permission from the FAA. I've never done it, but I understand there's a form to fill out (why doesn't that surprise me). It's for one way trips or returns (ie Oshkosh and back). Has anyone out there with an OM aircraft done it? I would be interested to know the process involved. Pretty well all of the flying I've done in it in the 16 years I've owned it has been within the borders of this great country of ours, but it would be nice to know if I should choose to go south.

With regards to the resale value, I have noticed no difference in asking prices in publications like the COPA Plane Trader. I've seen these ads get posted for a month or two and then disappear. I can surmise that either they get sold for the asking price or maybe no one is buying them and the sellers get frustrated and remove the ad. I'm thinking it's the former rather than the latter.

When I chose to change my Luscombe to OM, I had a lot of people saying that I wouldn't be able to get insurance on it (false), that some airfields would deny me to fly (also false), and that my airplane would be worth nothing since nobody would want to buy it (well, three strikes you're out). I was intending on holding on to my plane for many years, so I calculated that the money I would save on annuals alone would more than make up the difference in how much my airplane would drop in resale price. Since this drop never seemed to happen, guess I'm ahead of the game.

The question about going back to a certified aircraft, well it's just about impossible. TC did it up that way. In order to go back, you would have to do a total engine tear-down and rebuild, prop would have to be majored and the airframe would have to have some pretty extensive inspections. All the instruments would have to be overhauled as well (not sure on this one though). In the end, it would be extremely cost-prohibitive. A used C150 goes for about $25K (average). To return the same airplane that had been OM would probably end up being a $50-60K machine (that's just a guess mind you...not based on any stats).

I quite enjoy being an OM owner. Today I put my new interior panels in the Luscombe (royal blue to match the paintjob I did). I didn't need a ga-zillion pieces of paper to get from suppliers, just the sales slip from the automotive detail shop I bought the fire-retardant vinyl from. It looks good (if I say so myself), and I still had enough money left over to go flying....and fly I did.

If anyone has any questions about OM, you can look at the COPA website http://www.copanational.org or PM me.

Cheers

[shitdisturber]

Jeez 254 not hard to tell English is not your first language, we don.t dis believe but get a grip this is America.

In the first place, the last time I looked, this was still Canada.

In the second place, apparently english isn't your first language either. Don't is usually spelled with an apostrophe, not a period; and disbelieve is normally one word.

[Landlocked]

Cat, could you check your pm's? Just a couple questions on your project!

Thanks.