The Hammer wrote:Why support companies/pilots that drive wages down???
Jetsgo/Canjet sure help the pilot's cause for improved wages/ working conditions.
Speaking of companies who set the wage bar low... what is the starting pay again at Jazz and AC?
As far as I'm concerned, pay is a secondary consideration when compared to 'company culture' and the enjoyability of the work environment.
As I've said before, Porter is definitely not Jetgo or any other LCC for that matter.
I understand the skepticsm of those who see 'just another startup'.
There's no question this business is risky, but I believe it will succeed.
Time will tell...
...and I still think it's sad that fellow pilots can't keep their ego and cynicism in check enough just to wish us well.
When you can make 72g flying a king air/ metro/1900 I would say that 72g for 76 pax airplane is not anything to write home about. Throw in working out of downtown T.O. and it's cost of living (It's a tough commute from barrie/kitchener/ etc to the waterfront) and in real dollars it's even less
Note: FO's flying 400's elsewhere make more than 72G, never mind captains. What does HydroQuebec pay there captain's?
Good luck Porter but I think way to many business men collect the points from their business travel and use them for personal holidays on AC to give Porter a real chance
Thats a true story Hammer, though I doubt that any FO's on 400's or dash 8's of any model are making that in Canada, unless they've been in the right side for years and years, which is a reality at Jazz I guess...And 72 is ok for a first year starting wage I think...I don't know what the increments are though.
All I was getting at was that their starting wages are higher than Jazz and AC as far as I know. Just cuz it dosen't have a red leaf on the side dosen't mean its driving wages down. People have to stop bowing and praying to the red leaf as the end all be all, 'cause there's more out there...Maybe it'll be awesome. I bet lots of people said the same stuff about WJ when it started out. Seriously, how long does one have to work at Jazz before they'll make 72??? I'm only asking 'cause I don't know...
So???? What does a first year Dash Captain at Jazz make??? If it is low to mid seventies, you've prolly been there a helluva longtime years just to get the upgrade. Even if it is a bit more, considering the years of service it should prolly should be after making 30-40 g's for so long...
If Mid seventies is low for a FIRST year 70 seat dash capt, why is just fine at JAZZ when you've been there for years??? AND ok to make 33 your first year in the right seat of a 100 seat JET???. All kneel before A/C, and anything with a red leaf on it!!! C'mon dude look past the pretty Red Leaf. How is Porter driving wages down?? No I don't work there...
Sure Shot wrote:
only two seats sold on the Oct 23 flight to cyow. is this normal?
New run, just started taking reservations a couple days back, for a flight that's a couple weeks out yet.
You tell me, what is 'normal' for a flight that's scheduled, never been done, and just started accepting reservations ? I'm REALLY curious as to where you would get the statistics to get your definition for 'normal'.
Boy....There sure is a lot of negativity on this site when a new company starts up...Everybody wants more opportunity but I guess only with the old companies.
This is a start up company, wages will be adjusted as time goes by, trade agreements, code shares...this all takes time. They haven't even turned a wheel yet and quite a few of you are bashing the company already...shame, shame...
I guess all you pilot types are expert business men as well? Give them a chance and hope for the best from Porter...I know I do! Competition is good for the industry..when done right.
Good Luck to all the guys and gals who are taking the chance with a new entity...I wish you all the best. Stick with it, be the best you can, in the job you do..all things take time!
YVR Dude wrote:Boy....There sure is a lot of negativity on this site when a new company starts up...Everybody wants more opportunity but I guess only with the old companies.
This is a start up company, wages will be adjusted as time goes by, trade agreements, code shares...this all takes time. They haven't even turned a wheel yet and quite a few of you are bashing the company already...shame, shame...
I guess all you pilot types are expert business men as well? Give them a chance and hope for the best from Porter...I know I do! Competition is good for the industry..when done right.
Good Luck to all the guys and gals who are taking the chance with a new entity...I wish you all the best. Stick with it, be the best you can, in the job you do..all things take time!
bandit1 wrote:wonder how many seats it takes to break even in those brand new shiny Q400's...
Compare them them to, say, Quebecair Express who was flying clapped out Saab's they got for next to nothing. Couple months and they got blown out of the sky by the competition.
The operating costs must be insane compared to how much $ they can bring in.
The break even point on the Q400 is very low - around 35% - 39% load factor. The operating cost is around the same for a 300-500 nm sector as a comparable 50 seat CRJ, but with 50% more seats than a CRJ.
This translates into a very competitive CASM. The only drawback with the Q400 is that you need to fly it on routes where you can capitalise on the CASM and acheive 40+ pax loads on every flight, which rules out a lot of traditional 'regional' routes.
bandit1 wrote:wonder how many seats it takes to break even in those brand new shiny Q400's...
Compare them them to, say, Quebecair Express who was flying clapped out Saab's they got for next to nothing. Couple months and they got blown out of the sky by the competition.
The operating costs must be insane compared to how much $ they can bring in.
The break even point on the Q400 is very low - around 35% - 39% load factor. The operating cost is around the same for a 300-500 nm sector as a comparable 50 seat CRJ, but with 50% more seats than a CRJ.
This translates into a very competitive CASM. The only drawback with the Q400 is that you need to fly it on routes where you can capitalise on the CASM and acheive 40+ pax loads on every flight, which rules out a lot of traditional 'regional' routes.
Is anyone listening to my screams?!?!!? YTZ-YQM-YYT RETURN!!!
For that ex WJ VP on the other forum - don't think Deluce is really chasing someone from Thornhill unless he/she's stopping at a Bay St office on the way to the airport. For someone at King/Bay to get a taxi to Bathurst/Queens Quay is not $90 and not an extra bunch of billable time which compared to the cost of the AC/WJ flight is probably chicken feed.
EI-EIO wrote:For that ex WJ VP on the other forum - don't think Deluce is really chasing someone from Thornhill unless he/she's stopping at a Bay St office on the way to the airport. For someone at King/Bay to get a taxi to Bathurst/Queens Quay is not $90 and not an extra bunch of billable time which compared to the cost of the AC/WJ flight is probably chicken feed.
You are right, they are not targetting the consumer market with these flight, the folks that will drive an hour to save 20 bucks on the ticket. They are after the high value clients who need to travel between the financial centers and the political centers during business hours, the kind of people that will think nothing of dropping an extra hundred bucks on a ticket if it means saving an hour. The hundred bucks is a small fraction of what they bill the hour out for.
But, of course, we know this business model will never work. If the concept was viable, there would be a hundred flights a day between vancouver and victoria, probably even try do it with floatplanes to get downtown, and maybe even try helicopters to be able to go at night.
