Air Canada the Pinnacle??

gr8gazu · Post by **gr8gazu** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:52 pm

I read in another thread, someone stated that AC was "the pinnacle" in Canadian aviation..

Here are my parrallels to the rest of the world:

Yellow bus drivers, same routes every day, lots of rules to impose safety, independent thought discouraged-Air Canada/Westjet

Limo drivers, expensive equipment, high end clients, ability to think on your feet and live and die(figuratively) by your descisions- Corporate

Specialty equipment operators ie: cranes, loaders, heavy equipment, hard work and high skill levels- Fire supression, swing wing, military etc.

Formula 1 drivers, precision is everything!- Airshow performers

I guess it depends what "pinnacle" means to you..

What are your thoughts??

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:58 pm

Sched IFR = YAWN.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 4:28 pm

Having done all of them I'll take aerial applicating as my favourite....and courrier as the worst. ( Air show flying the second worse. )

Cat

desksgo · Post by **desksgo** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 4:45 pm

gr8gazu wrote:
I guess it depends what "pinnacle" means to you..

What are your thoughts??

Different strokes...There are many avenues in which to explore in our industry. None are better than any other. Some of my greatest admiration lies with those that have chosen to be career, high-quality flight instructors. I've got the same admiration for the guy sitting in Paris right now on his Air Canada layover as I have for the guy slipping her in through the fog to a glassy landing on some quiet lake. They all excel at their chosen task, and I say kudos to every one of them.

So yes, for someone with the airline mindset, Air Canada may indeed be a pinnacle for the industry. That can't bother you can it?

gr8gazu · Post by **gr8gazu** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:28 pm

desksgo wrote:That can't bother you can it?

Bother me?? Je me giveashit pas!! Just a topic to discuss!

Dash-Ate · Post by **Dash-Ate** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:32 pm

And every highway pile up occures in IFR conditions...now tell me who has more skill, the pilot or a driver...

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:36 pm

I think the pinnicle of aviation is sitting in your car, on the approch to your chosen airport/heliport, watching the nice shiney machines landing... right before you go sign up for flight school...

In all seriousness, it depends on your motivations - if it's stutus and stability, airlines are it, if it's skill, go fly a helicopter.

STL

Lost in Saigon · Post by **Lost in Saigon** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:39 pm

Having done all of them I'll take aerial applicating as my favourite

Cat, Is this the type of aerial application you mean?

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:46 pm

Everyone KNOWS the best pilots in the world program FMSs at Air Canada, right?

(puts on asbestos underwear )

-istp

alpha1 · Post by **alpha1** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:55 pm

cat, just curious, why the thumbs down on air show flying?

Duster · Post by **Duster** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:10 pm

Airline flying - love the pay, the people and the lifestyle - the flying is pretty routine most of the time

Ag flying - most fun you can have with your clothes on - tired all the time and your summers are gone

Teaching - very rewarding - very tough to make a good living

Aerobatics - if they would only pay me to do this all year around.

Small aircraft single pilot charter - just an awful lot of work especially in bad weather.

Ah hell Ive enjoyed all of it - met some great people and no regrets

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:19 pm

Lost in Saigon, no I meant flying in the tobacco farms of southern ontario and all the other farm work using Super Cubs, Stearmans and Pawnees...and then with Hughes 300 helicopters . That was the best flying I ever did.

I firebombed as a PBY Captain for 15 years both North and South America and it was fun also but pretty mundane compared to Ag. flying.

Alpha 1, airshow flying is 99% sitting on hot ramps answering the same questions over and over with a flying routine of about 12 minutes under very tight time and position limits, over and over and over.....and the bureaucratic B.S. in Europe was mind destroying. Oh and attending pre airshow briefings that lasted forever and overseen and conducted by bureaucrats that dreamed up new rules with each passing day. Can you believe that they actually hired police with radar guns to catch us below the floor or outside the box??? Fuckin unbelievable.

Cat

goldeneagle · Post by **goldeneagle** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:26 pm

Dash-Ate wrote:And every highway pile up occures in IFR conditions...now tell me who has more skill, the pilot or a driver...

How many of those pile ups wouldn't happen if there was a traffic cop out there enforcing 5 mile spacing between every car ?

If you want to compare apples and apples, come back and look at aviation after the ATC system has been removed from the mix, and pilots actually have to look after avoiding other traffic themselves.

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:40 pm

Pinnacle? right. big company + big union = big politics and big headache

not a chance. there some great people there, but the good people get overshadowed by the all the whiners and malcontents. I am not necessarily talking about the pilot group, but the company as a whole. I almost always have such terrible service on AC.

But that's just me. you folks can have at 'er. I like my time off and working for a small, highly skilled, niche company.

jet a1 · Post by **jet a1** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:09 am

the pinnacle is something different for each person. therefore a correct answer is impossible. air canada as a pinnacle? yes, in public opinion, but i'd bet that once the luster of "finally" getting to AC wears off the politics of such a job begins to override the childhood dream that forced you to give up friends and potential family to get there. having said that, i'm sure that there are guy/gals at AC that have the world by the tail and are loving it. who's right? NO ONE. if an airline pilot bumps into a guy who became a CFI at a flightschool and stayed who is "better". if you ask a brandnew private pilot i'm sure they'd say the airline guy. however, throw in factors like the CFI has a wife and kids and an awesome home/personal life, while the airline guy only has a faint memory of someone who didn't last a summer away or that 6 months in male. you tell me who's "better". it's a personal choice, and each of us has to make it. no one is better, we all make choices. i'm just hoping that in 30 years i'm happy.
hope all you are too.
later.
jet.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:24 am

If AC is the "pinnacle" of aviation, then the Village People and Milly Vanilly would therefore be the pinnacle of music

My only two regrets in aviation is that I've never done long-line helicopter, and I've never landed at night on a carrier.

All comes down to motivation, and each person's opinion of "success".

For many people, their definition of success is the approval of non-pilots, hence their desire to walk through an airport terminal building in a polyester uniform with 4 bars.

When we're at an airshow, and we do a really technically difficult manuever, I'm sure the ice cream lickers (99.999% of the crowd) couldn't tell the difference. But there might be one or two guys watching, perhaps someone like . Yeager or Bob Hoover, who might think to himself, "That's a really shit-hot piece of flying".

And that, my friends, is success for me.

SQ · Post by SQ » Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:21 am

pinnacle is to have respect & recognition from your peers

cedar tree · Post by **cedar tree** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:25 am

Air Canada is certainly not the pinnacle of customer service in the Canadian aviation industry. Nor do they exude financial responsibility and ability to change. As far as equipment, yes, Air Canada has a fleet of nice aircraft.

Pinnacle of white collar aviation? Blue collar? How about the pinnacle of no-collar?

How could it get any better than fire-bombing? Every flight is different, and it really is a test of your flying skills, especially in British Columbia. Having those 8 months off with the pay to afford it would be nice too.

jjj · Post by **jjj** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:25 pm

gr8gazu,

What do you mean by "independent thought discouraged-Air Canada/Westjet."

Can you explain your opinion?

jjj

LuckyPilot · Post by **LuckyPilot** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 1:15 pm

The reason I call myself Luckypilot is exactly what this tread is all about. In my 29 years of flying I've had the oppurnunity to do just about everything except fly a fighter. When I talk flying with my buddies over beers it's always about the bush or up north on the DAK or the Herc (not military). On a lark I threw a resume in with AC and presto here I am, instantly, I realized the flying would never be the same as I had been doing. The challenge now, as it was when i got hired, is to keep the standard high and the enthusiasm going, and in recent years that has been difficult, to say the least. At AC, labor relations are at all time low, salaries are early 90's level with no hope for improvement, at least, not as far as can see. Our contract is shadow of it's former self and constantly under attack by the company (and pilots). What AC does offer is a schedule, eventually, and to some that is worth the price of admission.

ettw · Post by **ettw** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 1:29 pm

I remember talking to one of the old guys at First Air who had been in the North for 30+years. We were talking about some gravel bed that I had seen and trying to decide if it was a viable Twin Otter strip. He was so wound up and excited. And he had seen caribou there! Well, at that point I was hooked on the Twin Otter and the North. How many old 747 drivers still get all wound up over the ILS into Frankfurt? Not many I suppose.

So when its all said and done, the pinnacle is where YOU find it, no one else.

Cheers,

ETTW

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:24 pm

The idea of a schedule and passes is definitely attractive, but in the end as many are saying, it just depends on what YOU want. Maybe the labour headaches and just being a number is worth it to get the other perks. Not for me though, at this point.

gr8gazu · Post by **gr8gazu** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:24 pm

jjj wrote:gr8gazu,

What do you mean by "independent thought discouraged-Air Canada/Westjet."

Can you explain your opinion?

jjj

Yes. Can you?

Air Canada the Pinnacle??

Air Canada the Pinnacle??

Re: Air Canada the Pinnacle??

Re: Air Canada the Pinnacle??