Why I'll never post in the flight training forum again.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:27 am

I have asked groupboard to retract this false and personally damaging post and he refuses to do so.

It may not seem to be important to a lot here but I will not associate with any group who allow such untrue and insulting comments to stand and become part of what they believe.

This is the part of his post that is totally false and he refuses to remove.

" That's not what I heard. Didn't they deny your new flying school an operating certificate because you had a cessna 150 with an uncertified prop? Now, how hard would it be to go out any buy a new prop? But you didn't want to do that. Instead you had a big argument with them because the aircraft in question had been flying for years at another school, so you came up with this paranoid theory that TC was out to get you.

So what if the plane had been flying for years with the wrong prop without TC noticing? If it was an engine that hadn't been properly maintained, would it have made a difference? It could have been flying for years with no problems, then suddenly stopped in flight because of a cracked cylinder.

Even if the prop thing wasn't an airworthiness issue, you still have to follow the procedures. If the law requires you to have a different prop, you have to do it. No point moaning about it and generating a consipracy theory.

I hear you are getting into ultralight training. Well you might be interested to know that TC are even more trigger happy when investigating ultralight incidents and accidents than with certified aircraft, so you better watch your ass real close. "

This propellor problem had nothing to do with TC not approving my appplication for a FTU OC.

That issue occured long after I had ceased my efforts to gain approval for a FTU and had been bankrupted by TC.

The problem was a paperwork oversite by Cessna Aircraft, the propellor was a certified propellor and flying on thousands of 150's but the modle no. was not carried foward into the 1976 M . The airplane is still flying with that propellor after I received the necessary paper work from Cessna and the propellor manufacturer to clear up the oversite by Cessna.

The airplane was leased to Victoria Flight Training and the same TC inspector who was the root of my problem in my FTU application targeted it as a means to continue to harrass me after he fact.

He did a good job because once I filed the harrassement complaint and had the meeting with the RDG it only took three days for his " resignation " to be accepted by TCCA.

I have been contributing to Avcanada for years and like everyone here I am not perfect and post stuff that many may not agree with.

But I do not post false information knowingly, and I can not allow others to slag my career.

So I will leave this training forum to posters like groupboard and co-joe to guide all you keeners who plan on aviation as a career.

Good luck, you may need it.

Cat

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:31 am

Cat surely you're not going to take anything to heart coming out of that idiot groupboard's little pea brain are you? This is, after all, the guy who called his instructor incompetent for his misguided attempt to keep group alive by correcting him for hitting the power before the flaps on a touch and go. I wouldn't worry too much about his opinions; sooner or later he'll make the Darwin awards and life will carry on as usual for the rest of us.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:01 pm

No SD. I do not take people like groupboard to heart, but the training forum in my opinion should be reserved for young pilots to ask questions of qualified and experienced instructors. So the advice can be of value to them.

One way to bring some professionalism into the flight training forum would be for Joe to make it mandatory for responders ( those giving advice ) to flying training questions to post under known names, or have their posts deleted.

This would get rid of the unqualified and village idiots giving dubious or outright incorrect advice to these young people who truly could become great aviators with the proper training and advice.

What think thee of that suggestion SD?

rotateandfly · Post by **rotateandfly** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:31 pm

I do not take people like groupboard to heart, but the training forum in my opinion should be reserved for young pilots to ask questions of qualified and experienced instructors. So the advice can be of value to them.

I agree Cat. There have been a coule of times that I've been wondering about something and couldnt find it in my FTGU, I'd come here in hopes of finding an answer. Most of the time though, there would be heated debate or just people telling other people they're idiots. At least in the flight training forum, let's keep it straight forward and professional.
Just my 2 cents.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:39 pm

I'm glad others agree...thanks.

trey kule · Post by **trey kule** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:01 pm

Cat...am I wrong? It seems you have posted twice since youposted that you were not going to post anymore.. :[img]:lol:[/img]

I have to agree with you that tomuch wrong information is given out, but it seems to be an AvCanada thing. I have looked at some other forums that are non-Canadian and the people posting seem to be better educated and less BSly enhanced. In fact the topics and postings in general , seem much more professional in nature.

I dont think there is any solution other than the flight training forum should have a warning that information posted here may be unqualified and totaly wrong.....WARNING The above information may be from an unqualified source and totaly wrong.

CD · Post by CD » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:46 pm

I always liked this one:

The opinions expressed above are not necessarily the opinions of management and in fact may be the opposite of that intended in order to confuse and obfuscate trolling readers.

Pugster · Post by **Pugster** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:13 pm

I think the easiest way to cure this "problem" would be to delete or lock any threads that do not directly relate to learning or teaching how to fly. The forum should be dedicated towards the sharing of knowledge and the discussion of various instruction techniques.

I also believe very firmly that responding to a post that advocates something you do not support with insults or "you're all a bunch of bad pilots" should not be tolerated. Talking about the degradation of the industry and the quality of the pilots it's producing isn't gonna help the situation either. What will help the situation is providing instructors out there with some knowledge that may help them create a better product - a pilot who can think for themselves and hopefully enjoy a long, safe, and happy flying career. Even low-time instructors have experiences to share - and lately when some of them come to the plate with their opinions they get bashed into not posting again. A damn shame - as I have met some very stellar instructors who think outside of the box, create great pilots, and have under 1000 hours.

I don't agree with all of your posts Cat - but that's the beauty of a free world - I don't have to. That being said, judging from your posts (it's all I've got to judge you with) I do think you have one hell of a contribution to make to this forum, and to quit posting would be a loss for experienced instructors and newbies alike. If the mods eliminated any non-related posts we'd all be in for a more productive forum.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:28 pm

Jeeses Pugster I don't agree with all my posts, so why should you?

My reason for deciding not to contribute to this forum is due to the fact that no matter what someone has to say there is someone who starts a flame war going and the subject gets lost in the resulting chaos.

For some years I have tried to generally post serious advice however I am unable to cope with anonymous posters who attack my integrity and qualifications based on my problems with TC several years ago.

Best I just leave this forum alone and when I get my Cub finished I will advertise in Avcanada that I am offering training outside of TC's dictates and without the anchor of bureautic stupidity involved in owning an OC to strangle me.

By the way these posts do not count as it's my own thread.

Oh, I almost forgot when I linked that piece I wrote for PPrune several years ago on how to land an airplane, here in Avcanada suprise, suprise, I'm getting PM's and e-mails from pilots thanking me for helping them see the subject...so to speak.

Pugster · Post by **Pugster** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:47 pm

Well I hear ya .. I've stopped posting on a thread many times because I know someone is just going to flame away and I'll get dragged in. In fact, I posted under another name a good time prior (I was a new instructor who asked a "dumb" question) to my "join" date of 2004, but got flamed out by one idiot so bad that I bailed on Avcanada for 2 years.

Hopefully things get under control, the mods can enforce some rules, and we can get back to productive discussions on what some of us truly love to do - teach people how to fly. Until that time I understand your frustration and hopefully you'll rejoin the discussions if they ever straighten out. Personally I'll just do what I've been doing in the past - bailing out on a thread whenever things get stupid. I feel the need to say that this isn't just limited to newbies or the "younger crowd"...there's some uber-experienced pilots on this forum that get pretty goddamn ridiculous and are the first to start the name calling and experience-bashing...and it gets old...FAST.

I'd at least hope that you'd accept PMs from any newbies that had questions...your experience in the seaplane world (for one) would be invaluable to anyone pursuing that line of work.

Cheers, and happy wrenching on the Cub.

Edelweiss air · Post by **Edelweiss air** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:23 pm

Hey cat I would be intrested in reading your "how to land an airplane post" if you could send me a link or..whatever it would be greatly appreciated

Edelweiss air · Post by **Edelweiss air** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:23 pm

*Double post*

justplanecrazy · Post by **justplanecrazy** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:34 pm

What you really need is an all knowing pilot to correct any false statements and delete any ignorant attempts to correct your correction. I see everyone here has their hand raised as that all knowing pilot. Must be a bunch of pilots.

The problem is, there is no way for an administrator to determine who is right and who is wrong unless he himself has an answer for everything. We have 4 pages of guys arguing that having 20 degrees of flaps on take off when the performance section of POH only indicates 10 degrees is exceeding a design limitation. Even though this was cleared up on page 2 it still went back and forth for 2 pages before finally being written off to some dumb float plane logic.

If you are arguing with someone, don't just argue for the sake of arguing. Check the facts and if you're in the wrong, shut the hell up and let the students know the truth. Call Cessna ask them yourself, don't just argue for the sake of winning an argument. If the guy in the right bails because he's sick of the BS banter on here, the student only sees the idiot, who's willing to argue the longest, answer.

gli77 · Post by **gli77** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:41 pm

Hey Cat,

I do enjoy reading your posts when they pertain to flying. I can also fully understand how someone who is not as well versed as you (in your case a TC inspector) can frustrate the hell out of you. I have been there a few times myself with some management in my aviation career. BUT some of your posts do come off as ranting about something that we have no idea what you are talking about, as we do not know the story. Obviously you have many friends on here who know who you are and know your story. But the rest of us are left to wonder if you are for real or just a crackpot going off about TC.

Now that being said, and judging from the experience and time in that you seem to have I would think that in the back of your mind you must have known that some of your TC posts were to going to bring out those looking to question the other side of the story. In my opinion you should not rant about TC without fully describing your story and I would think that most of us with time in aviation know that this is not the place to discuss that.

Basically what I am getting at is that you brought it on yourself by bringing up your troubles with TC time and time again. To leave because someone called you on your rants about TC is basically fair game for you bringing it up in the first place. I am not attacking you just stating the reality. Personally I hope you will continue to post on here as you do make a tremendous contribution.

Discussions/debates about flying are what this is about and should rage on. Discussions/debates about your personal experience is no ones business and should stay that way.

So to conclude my rant about your rant I sincerely hope you will continue to post your thoughts and ideas about flying. I do not post here often but do like to read the opinions of those such as yourself. I suspect there are a lot more like me as well. As you stated, your post about how to land was well recieved.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:01 pm

Fair comment gli77.

I have discussed this with one of the mods and I am thinking of writing a complete accurate record of what transpired with TC and me.

Remember it took 2.5 years for TC to finally break me financially and there are hundreds of pages of documents that I have to go through to get an accurate point form overview that will be short enough to read.

Of all the things that pilots should know, how TC really works is one of the most important lesson I can teach you.

No I am far from a crackpot, however I am also better known in Europe and other countries than in Canada.

So I will probably work on a record of why you should fear TC...

I am only willing to write it if Avcanada will sticky it.

For Avcanada it is safe as it is factual and mostly from TC's own offices.

For the truth to be told I will have to name names, and you can bet there will be some squirming at TC.

But everything has already passed the legal hurdle as most will be from TC's own internal investigations.

It ain't pretty.

Cat

gli77 · Post by **gli77** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:05 pm

Hey Cat,

How about you post that Airbus video you spoke of instead?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:16 pm

The Airbus video is only stuff I did in the sim in Toulouse, just sim training.

But I have a Video of our flight from Toulouse France to Santiago Chile done professionally by TF1 Television in France, marvellous movie..but it is in French. And quite long.

If someone can get it from VHS to a format that can be downloaded on the internet I can send them the tape.

We also did Project Okavango in Africa filmed by TF1. flew all around the African Continent. Here is Zanzibar.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e353/ ... sion04.jpg

And these are the Tibesti Mountains in Chad. I have zillions of pictures of our adventures around the world..zilloins.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e353/ ... ntains.jpg

Cat

Isis · Post by **Isis** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:20 pm

If you're still not comfortable posting in the flight training forum, Mr. Cat, will you answer questions related to flight training directed to you through
PMs?

Often, the debates on this forum frustrate me. Regardless of the 'book' or resourced answers, posters continue to debate on personal opinions only.

"I'm right and I don't care what you say."

This attitude gets people killed.

When posts are turning people away, we need to take a look at the system.

I truly hope you change your mind.

Blue Skies,
- Isis

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:29 pm

Cat Driver wrote:No SD. I do not take people like groupboard to heart, but the training forum in my opinion should be reserved for young pilots to ask questions of qualified and experienced instructors. So the advice can be of value to them.

One way to bring some professionalism into the flight training forum would be for Joe to make it mandatory for responders ( those giving advice ) to flying training questions to post under known names, or have their posts deleted.

This would get rid of the unqualified and village idiots giving dubious or outright incorrect advice to these young people who truly could become great aviators with the proper training and advice.

What think thee of that suggestion SD?

'Tis an interesting idea Cat, although I'm not sure how well it'd work. More likely what would happen would be that we would now be able to put names to the posts of the village idiots; amusing but not that helpful. If there is a workable answer, I don't know what it is; maybe that's why I don't post on AvCanada as much as I used to. The "once in a blue moon" flame wars used to be fun; the "once a day" flame wars have gotten rather tiresome.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:41 am

bring some professionalism into the flight training forum would be for Joe to make it mandatory for responders to flying training questions to post under known names

Here's an idea, .. It's a bit more work for Joe, but ...

You scan in your pilot licence, and email a JPG to Joe. If you have an ATPL, Joe adds an "A" symbol next to your name, above your avatar.

This would allow everyone to know who was real, and who wasn't.

So, if you have an ATPL, and aren't afraid of people knowing who you are, well, your advice is probably worth something.

But if you don't have an ATPL, or if you're afraid of people finding out who you are, well, your advice is probably worthless.

An ATPL is only 1500 hours, for crissake. That's not setting the bar very high.

trey kule · Post by **trey kule** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:09 am

Hedley:

I am not sure of the ATR thing. I do have one, but unfortunately, due to old age and many many years since I instructed, there are probably alot of low time, un-ATPL pilots who can answer the basic flying questions more correctly. The error I see, in many cases, is they lack total experience, and like the man with a hammer who sees a world full of nails, they relate everything to a basic trainer. It was a good idea, but I think to limiting. No screening will ever filter out those who will post wrong information, either through ignorance or evilness.

CD: Thank you....I will use it
The opinions expressed above are not necessarily the opinions of management and in fact may be the opposite of that intended in order to confuse and obfuscate trolling readers.

Cat, I am sorry you are the subject of some libelous personal attacks. That being said, I have some sympathy for some of the good people at TC (and there are more than a few) who may have just gotten weary of your continued attacks, justified or not, and decided to give their version of the issue to some small people who would post "what they heard" here.
Not trying to justify what he said....but when you continually attack a whole organization you must have realized that sooner or later this would happen. Non illigitimus carborendum

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:28 am

Why not institute a lock-out policy, whereby if someone instigates a flame-war or starts experience-bashing (etc, etc), they receive a warning via PM from the Flight Training moderator. If it continues in the same thread or a new thread, they are locked out of the Flight Training forum. Give 'em one shot to clean up their act, then out with them. The FT forum should be a place to gain wisdom from those higher up, with more experience, and with differing views on how certain things "could" be done (not should).

(Not even sure if thats possible)

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:58 am

Well I am quite happy to have brought up my frustrations with posting on the internet as I now relaize that it is not the place for me.

One thing rings very clear and that is I am an outsider in my own industry and seen as nothing less than some old pilot who ran afoul of the regulator and got his just reward.

The fact that I had done nothing wrong seems to escape everyone here, so be it.

I would like to say good luck to everyone here but that would not really have any meaning as so many here are convinced that I am just a loser who couldn't work with the regulator.

So from now on you will not have me to frustrate you.

C.E.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:02 am

Double post

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:07 am

many here are convinced that I am just a loser who couldn't work with the regulator

Well, you're in VERY good company ... me and Bob Hoover

As far as the *ssholes at Transport ... what I have learned is that there is no limit to what level they will sink to. I don't mind the unending personal attacks, but I am truly outraged when Transport attacks my family members, to try to take a chunk out of me.

I wonder how Transport would feel if I took a run at their aged parents, for example? Or perhaps took a run at their children?

I've told my son (he's 14) that he's going to have to leave Canada if he wants a flying career - ability, skill, knowledge and experience will count for nothing, once Transport sees his last name

I'm just not sure where in the Aeronautics Act that Transport is empowered to disenfranchise citizens, as it did to Jason Newburg, and has tried so hard to do so with me.