Multi-engine IFR training...or, lets screw the student..

master switch · Post by **master switch** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:30 am

also a lot of smaller schools can't afford a sim, even one of those crappy ELETE sims, do they do it all in the airplane???

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:01 am

I dont think it has to be an "approved" sim. You can learn/teach proceduers on most laptops. We aren't teaching somebody to "fly" IFR on a sim. Just making sure he knows which way to turn, while not having him spend a fortune. Like a hold entry...he should know this "cold turkey" before he ever steps foo in an airplane.
And if a school can afford a twin...they can afford a sim?

master switch · Post by **master switch** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:25 am

so you can log ms flight sim time?

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:32 am

No, but you can LEARN from it...that's the name of the game here.

WRX · Post by **WRX** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:52 am

We've been using our new sim that we got, and I love it.

Now I can teach RNAV SIDS, STARs, GPS approaches, circling approaches, horrible system failures, and flight directors and so on..

We do all the training in the sim, so when the student move to twin, they should be comfortable making all the calls and procedures. they just need to fly all the procedures in the plane and get up to the flight test standard.

master switch · Post by **master switch** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:01 am

Doc wrote:No, but you can LEARN from it...that's the name of the game here.

so how do they get the 20 sim hours?

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:00 am

You dont NEED 20 hours in a sim. Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while. You need 40 hours, 20 of which MAY be in a sim? Nowhere is it written, they need the 20 in a sim...and the other 20 in a twin....see where I'm going with this? You could do any combination...15 in a twin, 25 in a 172, or even a 150. There's your 40 hours. Or, you could find a school that HAS an approved sim...for the sim time? But my point is...you can use any sim as a learning tool. It's not a waste of time, just because you cant put in a log book. Frankly, for an IFR ticket, I wouldn't consider a school that has no approved sim.

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:15 am

Doc wrote:You dont NEED 20 hours in a sim. Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while. You need 40 hours, 20 of which MAY be in a sim? Nowhere is it written, they need the 20 in a sim...and the other 20 in a twin....see where I'm going with this? You could do any combination...15 in a twin, 25 in a 172, or even a 150. There's your 40 hours. Or, you could find a school that HAS an approved sim...for the sim time? But my point is...you can use any sim as a learning tool. It's not a waste of time, just because you cant put in a log book. Frankly, for an IFR ticket, I wouldn't consider a school that has no approved sim.

You're not wrong Doc; 20 hours MAY be in a sim, how you come to the magic 40 is totally up to you. I can and do use a sim for the basics; it's nice to be able to pause while you explain what just went wrong, not to mention it's great to be able to reposition the airplane thus saving a lot of time. For those who can't stand sims; when I did mine lo these many years ago I was one of em, but it was an ATC810 who can blame me, I'll go into a single and work with that until as you say "they can turn the right way." If there are any operators out there that do the whole thing in a twin, a student should be giving them a miss; with the bare minimum of multi time things are going to be happening far too fast for the student to get any benefit from their hard earned cash.

JW · Post by JW » Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:50 pm

Doc who cares, you've got your multi IFR.

JW

Elessar_44 · Post by **Elessar_44** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:25 am

For my MIFR wwe started out on a 172RG and then moved on to the
Seminole. In the end about 10 hours on the Seminole will be for the MIFR and another 10 on the RG. We just got done the IFR XC so another 2-3 hours and I'll be booking the test. My instructor has been really awesome with me about money and he never tries to stiff me or go up in the Seminole just for the hell of it.

Of course I spentt more than I would have liked too, but thats part of flight training unfortunately. I also had a real big screw up and stopped flying for 6 months, and let my CPL flight test expire.