Buying a C150

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:50 am

Since when can you not fly a C150 at night?

As to insrtument flying, well the thing is an Aerobat so there is no AI or DI in it.

Now as to the price.

What is an engine overhaul worth today? About $19,000.00

What is a paint and interior worth? About $5 to 10,000.00

What is the Texas Taildragger Kit, STC and installation worth?

When I did the conversion the cost was about $10,000.00

However the STC is no longer avaliable so you can't even convert one anymore and still have it in the certified catagory.

So is it really over priced?

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:05 am

[deleted]

l_reason · Post by **l_reason** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:28 am

Cat
I’m just saying that you’d need some gyros to fly at night and that would only bring the cost up even more. I’m sure that there are 150s that are worth $50,000+ but that is not the kind of thing a young person would want to buy as a cost saving training aircraft that’s going to be shared. Selling a ¼ share is going to be tough when its worth $11,000.

That plane will be great for someone that wants to keep it for a long time if money is not their top concern. There are far less expensive tail draggers that can be acquired offering very similar capabilities.

Cough, I’m a proud Luscombe owner.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:33 am

You are correct I-Reason, my Aerobat is not a cheap way to build time and learn to fly.

But how many young people do you see driving around in expensive cars and trucks that cost a lot more than 44 K and depreciate in a few years to about 10 or 15K?

I'm not up to speed on what is needed for night flying, when I got my night endorsement it was in a Cessna 140 with a basic panel, no AI or DI.

Cat

niss · Post by **niss** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:25 am

I'll let it go for that because I have to sell it to finish my Cub...my wife won't let me spend any more money on airplanes.

You should sell your wife....problem solved...

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:26 am

There is an old rule of thumb in aviation that if you spend say $5,000 on radios, the market value of the aircraft only goes up $2,500

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:16 am

Yeh Hedley I know all about how aircraft are valued.

My asking price was arrived at by consulting with the president of the Cessna 150 Cub in the USA.

The bottom line is it will be worth whatever someone wants to pay and I am willing to sell it for.

In the mean time I don't owe a penny on the thing and it is safe in a dry hangar.

As the Cessna Club guy said, it's worth went up when they stopped selling the STC.

727200er · Post by **727200er** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:12 pm

IF
a.) I had the money
and
b.) I could fit in the damn thing

I would buy it, theres something about high wings that makes 'em look way better as a taildragger.

twotter · Post by **twotter** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:15 am

Don't worry too much about Cat's airplane boys and girls.. I think I have a buyer for it..

BTW.. To fly it at night or whatever, if you want gyro's, I can put them in the airplane for about $1000 installed..

I don't know why so many people have to go out of their way to bitch and moan about things they know so little about..

Hornblower · Post by **Hornblower** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:50 am

twotter wrote: I don't know why so many people have to go out of their way to bitch and moan about things they know so little about..

... not bitching and moaning, just discussion and opinion; which is, after all, the purpose of a forum like this.

Imagine how little you would enjoy this forum if everyone kept their opinions to themselves. In this thread I sensed no animosity or read no derogation of Cat's fine lookin' aircraft. However it was pointed out that the price seemed to exceed the average asking price for even a low time 150. As well, there were some issues brought up for discussion centering on his aircraft's suitability for the training market. There was nothing of the scorn and abuse heaped on Cat, as been done on some other threads, ... for example where CID was involved.

By the way, I believe that the only gyro required for night flight is a T&B indicator.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:35 am

Quote:

" As well, there were some issues brought up for discussion centering on his aircraft's suitability for the training market."

And that says far more about the training industry in general than it does about the airplane.

If a simple tailwheel basic trainer is to difficult for training schools to teach on what does that have to say for their quality of training?

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:14 pm

Cat, wouldn't it be nice to put a pair of sticks in there, rather than the wheels? The only side by side two deat taildragger with sticks I can think of is the Fleet?....nah, it looks just fine the way it is! Wonder if I could still fly a tail wheel....um..?

l_reason · Post by **l_reason** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:33 pm

If you put a couple sticks in there it would be like a Luscombe.

I couldn’t agree more about what would make a better trainer then a bare bones tail wheel C-150. I only wish I could have learned to fly in a plane that had more adverse yaw then 152 I was taught in. The lil tail dragging 150 is close to perfect for an economical school plane I just don’t think it would be the best to have as a new PPL and owner. Simply due to the cost and how difficult it may be to sell your share when your done with it.

Hornblower · Post by **Hornblower** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:21 pm

I started fying at a flying school that had just replaced it’s last Aeronca with a 150 about 2 years previously. A fleet of 150s was more serviceable and available than a fleet of Aeroncas. The AME there at the time, told me they were ground-looping Aeroncas about once a week in their busy times. Of course they got pretty adept at repairing them, even got to installing skid plates on the wingtips. As it turns out, it is likely that many (Aeroncas) were flying around with compression cracks near the strut attach points, or longitudinal cracks at the spar butt. I’m sure that the students that made it through were better hands and feet pilots than those produced today, however many did not make it through (not as many high tech or civil servant types then). The 150s ushered in an era of both dependable and predictable aircraft and lesson bookings. This made the flight training a somewhat lucrative business proposition, and consequently flight training didn’t need to be supported by club membership dues.

Anyway, all to say that taildraggers will never be back in vogue, except for advanced (but unnecessary) training, or as an anomaly for private owners and homebuilders.

Sorry Cat.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:34 pm

Amazing, simply amazing what some people post here on Avcanada.

This gem from hornblower just about drops the bar down to as low as flight training could possibly go, if true that is.

"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I started fying at a flying school that had just replaced it’s last Aeronca with a 150 about 2 years previously. A fleet of 150s was more serviceable and available than a fleet of Aeroncas. The AME there at the time, told me they were ground-looping Aeroncas about once a week in their busy times. Of course they got pretty adept at repairing them, even got to installing skid plates on the wingtips.

How drunk was the AME when he told you that hornblower, I can understand you believing it by reading what you normally post here, but there are people who read this that might believe such nonesense.

So let me clear this up just a little for some who just might believe this crap.

I learned to fly at Central Airways and received my PPL in 30 hours on tail wheel airplanes.

Central Airways had 4 Cessna 140's....4 Fleet Canucks...1 Piper PA12....1 Cessna 170 and a Cessna Crane for twin engine training all these were tail wheel airplanes.

I flew with Central Airways for 7 years including as a flight instructor.

During my time with Central I do not recall even one groundloop.

However based on the story told by hornblower we should have had several hundred groundloops during that time.

Also there is no way that a flight school could ever put skid plates on the wing tips of tail wheel certified aircraft to help prevent damage from ground looping without getting a L.S.T.C.

So show us the L.S.T.C hornblower.

And finally this;

" Anyway, all to say that taildraggers will never be back in vogue, except for advanced (but unnecessary) training, or as an anomaly for private owners and homebuilders. "

With that beliefe hornblower best you stay away from tailwheel airplanes, you might hurt yourself.

Cat

Pugster · Post by **Pugster** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:47 pm

hornblower wrote: Anyway, all to say that taildraggers will never be back in vogue, except for advanced (but unnecessary) training, or as an anomaly for private owners and homebuilders.

...Speechless...

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:55 pm

I learned to fly (sort of, at least) at the Toronto Flying Club, which, at the time was in King City. We had 3 or 4 150's, a 172 and a Champ. Liked the champ, but did most of my required 600 hours on the 150 before they let me solo. Did not manage to groundloop the 150...tried real hard though.
If I had the money I'd buy a Citabria! Love the things!

Norskman · Post by **Norskman** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:29 pm

I won't say Yay or Nay, since I have no knowledge and/or experience in this subject, however I did find this little tidbit interesting:

President's Message - #6 - The National Aeronca Association wrote:There are still thousands of wood spar wings out there and as long as we have airplanes with tail wheels, the ground loop, with the wing tip striking the ground will be the leading event-related cause of compression cracks for non-aerobatic airplanes.
http://www.aeroncapilots.com/Spar_AD.htm

Just thought I would throw that into the mix.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:44 pm

Once upon a time there was a Momma Bear a Papppa Bear and a Baby Bear..........

Just thought I would throw that into the mix.

There are far more Cessnas that have had bulkhead and skin damage done by landing on the nose wheel than Aeroncas that have had damage done to spars from ground looping. considering their respactive types.

In the AAIB reports that we get in England, nose wheel damage is the leading item in flight school damage reports.

Cat

onceacop · Post by **onceacop** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:19 pm

Some of that unnecessary training..................

22l · Post by **22l** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:04 pm

Doc wrote: Just make sure you draw up some rules regarding maint costs etc in advance. AOPA...that's the American one,has lots of info on how to set up a "club"...because that's what you're doing. Two words....DO IT!

If four people set up a club would they have to "rent" the aircraft and pay GST/PST ?
Thanks for info

Hornblower · Post by **Hornblower** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:55 pm

Cat Driver wrote:Amazing, simply amazing what some people post here on Avcanada.

This gem from hornblower just about drops the bar down to as low as flight training could possibly go, if true that is.

So let me clear this up just a little for some who just might believe this crap.

I learned to fly at Central Airways and received my PPL in 30 hours on tail wheel airplanes.

Also there is no way that a flight school could ever put skid plates on the wing tips of tail wheel certified aircraft to help prevent damage from ground looping without getting a L.S.T.C.

So show us the L.S.T.C hornblower.

And finally this;

" Anyway, all to say that taildraggers will never be back in vogue, except for advanced (but unnecessary) training, or as an anomaly for private owners and homebuilders. "

With that beliefe hornblower best you stay away from tailwheel airplanes, you might hurt yourself.

Cat

Nasty, nasty. A little cranky today Cat Driver??

Maybe the AME was exaggerating about the once a week thing, but the skid plate story was corroborated by a couple of older members. As for an LSTC, there was no such thing back then, and in any case, I have seen many the mod that was not performed IAW approved data. Why I bet I could find a few in your fine aircraft ...eh?

Do you really disagree that the days of mainstream abinitio training are over? Surely you are not that out of touch with the reality of today’s training industry.

As you indicated, there are many 150s damaged from poor landings (on the nose gear); imagine what these people would do if they were flying a taildragger, or rather landing one!

Yes oldtimer, the taildragger days are all but over, whether it be from lack of competent instructors, the poor quality of students, or exorbitant insurance premiums, they are now relegated to the arena of the private or rec pilot. It is not likely you will ever again see a mainstream certified aircraft expressly built for the training market (or the air taxi, commuter or airline transport sectors for that matter). Sorry there Cat, might as well face it, from now on the vast majority of professional ATPL pilots may never lay their hands on a taildragger. You are obsolete!

And how is it that you can equate what I have written with what I have flown? Just a thought, but don’t give up your day job for a position as a medium. Enjoy your waning years doing what you like best (unless that be insulting me on this forum) and thank your lucky stars that you got to do what you have done, for I feel that in this day of 10 hour ATPLs, SOPs, SMS, and an if-it-saves-only-one-person-it’s-worth-it mentality, you would be a very unhappy person.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:21 pm

Insult you hornblower ha ha ha what a fu.king laugh.

Take two aspirins and get lots of rest and you will feel better.

I may be an old timer my friend but I ve flown and earned my living on just about every device out there both fixed and rotary wing up to the latest glass stuff, so if I'm obsolete I guess thats the way the world turns. So I don't have to feel to embarrased by the fact I see flying tail wheel airplanes as just another flying machine.

But I guess being dummed down and taught how to fly on kiddy cars is O.K. for todays young ones.

Just to point out how ignorant you really are hornblower this says it all.

" Maybe the AME was exaggerating about the once a week thing, but the skid plate story was corroborated by a couple of older members. As for an LSTC, there was no such thing back then, and in any case, I have seen many the mod that was not performed IAW approved data. Why I bet I could find a few in your fine aircraft ...eh? "

Tell you what hornblower try phoning my AMO and suggesting my airplane has unaproved mods, it is commercially registered and he has been signing it out for years.

Cat

Hornblower · Post by **Hornblower** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:39 pm

Yes I'm sure your AMO will tell me about all the non-conforming repairs/ mods that they haven't found.

And you keep changing the subject, and misinterpreting my posts.

Lets talk about something that is not so upsetting for you.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:02 pm

Oh I don't misunderstand you hornblower, you are so transparent it is pitiful.

As a troll you are mediocre and as a pilot I wouldn't let you sit in my airplane in the hangar with the doors locked.