Is it fair to Johnny po'ass? No, but nobody ever said life was fair. That being said, if Johnny works hard on the dock, he'll probably get some free float time out of it. He'll be a lot better off than someone who shows up at the office with fifty hours of float time; because let's face it, insurance requirements being what they are fifty hours won't even get you a look.Shady McSly wrote:What if it comes to a point (and we may be there soon) where 50hr. on floats gets you a job like the past, and someone goes out and spends thousands getting that extra time because they can find that kind of money...
...but there's another guy who is poor and can't come up with that $$ - so he/she has to @#$! around and maybe work the ramp for a long while -
is that really fair to johnny po'ass?
If one employer says "get 50hr. floats and you have the job" and another says "get a PPC and you have the job" -
What the hell is the difference?????? There might not be any.
Buying "time".
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shitdisturber
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Buying time
You can go to the U.S. and buy like 500 hours flight time on just about any large a/c for 23g's.. on beech 1900's metro's 737's wtvr.
http://www.eaglejet.net
Canadians have this dumb ass theory that you can't buy time...you can
http://www.eaglejet.net
Canadians have this dumb ass theory that you can't buy time...you can
Throttles to the wall
Personally I will spend my hard earned money any danm way I please. I learned to fly to have fun. If I can't get a job doing something I want to try, if I have the money I will do it on my own.
To add another twist to this discussion, what about the pilot that buys a twin, flys it 500 hours then sells it again. Now you have 500 hrs of MPIC, and maybe a leg up on a job that someone else does not have. How does that fit into the moral standards of the avcanada population?
To add another twist to this discussion, what about the pilot that buys a twin, flys it 500 hours then sells it again. Now you have 500 hrs of MPIC, and maybe a leg up on a job that someone else does not have. How does that fit into the moral standards of the avcanada population?
Wahunga!
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shitdisturber
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It doesn't bother me at all; if somebody buys himself an airplane and flies the piss out of it, that's their business as far as I'm concerned. While it does to an extent give them a leg up on someone else it's not the same as buying a PPC which is a deliberate attempt to work an angle to me. Maybe I'm being somewhat of a hypocrite but I can live with it.Spokes wrote:Personally I will spend my hard earned money any danm way I please. I learned to fly to have fun. If I can't get a job doing something I want to try, if I have the money I will do it on my own.
To add another twist to this discussion, what about the pilot that buys a twin, flys it 500 hours then sells it again. Now you have 500 hrs of MPIC, and maybe a leg up on a job that someone else does not have. How does that fit into the moral standards of the avcanada population?
Some people are smarter too. They often do better in school and get better jobs than, uh.. people like me.
Is that fair?
Some people are able to scrape some $ together and buy time.
I rented an airplane to get my time up. Not very hireable with 200hrs.
My justification is that I bought experience, not a paper PPC. Often, people paid me to fly them places (non profit - just covering gas and stuff....of course) and I had to make ALOT of PIC weather and flight planning and go/no go decisions. I learned a hell of a lot.
I thought it was hard-earned money well spent.
Oh, and I still had to work the ramp.
Whatev.
Is that fair?
Some people are able to scrape some $ together and buy time.
I rented an airplane to get my time up. Not very hireable with 200hrs.
My justification is that I bought experience, not a paper PPC. Often, people paid me to fly them places (non profit - just covering gas and stuff....of course) and I had to make ALOT of PIC weather and flight planning and go/no go decisions. I learned a hell of a lot.
I thought it was hard-earned money well spent.
Oh, and I still had to work the ramp.
Whatev.
Sell crazy somewhere else, we're all stocked up here
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Shady McSly
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good point...I guess buying an airplane just to build time is the same thing - at least you'd still be getting experience just not commercially.Spokes Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:17 pm Post subject:
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Personally I will spend my hard earned money any danm way I please. I learned to fly to have fun. If I can't get a job doing something I want to try, if I have the money I will do it on my own.
To add another twist to this discussion, what about the pilot that buys a twin, flys it 500 hours then sells it again. Now you have 500 hrs of MPIC, and maybe a leg up on a job that someone else does not have. How does that fit into the moral standards of the avcanada population?
and its better than just a piece of paper with PPC on it.
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Shady McSly
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You may buy a navajo and build time on it but you still don't have a PPC. That should still be worth more and be more reputable than simply buying a PPC on it only.
All of this is buying your way further ahead - as mentioned, like the guy who tips the bouncer and moves ahead of the line at the bar - if everyone 'in the line' did it, aviation would develop a "cover charge"...it may be going there.
oh well, regardless...if you buy a PPC you're a pandering whore!!
All of this is buying your way further ahead - as mentioned, like the guy who tips the bouncer and moves ahead of the line at the bar - if everyone 'in the line' did it, aviation would develop a "cover charge"...it may be going there.
oh well, regardless...if you buy a PPC you're a pandering whore!!
Let me take a stab....
People, Joe, get pissed off when you get a job ahead of them despite thier experience etc.....
Buying a PPC, for some companies is acceptable practice and they will hire you ahead of joe, who has prostitued himself working the ramp despite him having a commercial license, for the same company. Here Joe gets hostile, hard work goes unnoticed etc.....
Buying float/twin time doesn't give you a job with any one company over another....equal chanecs everywhere....and if you buy 50 hours float time you're not getting a job with out working the dock ahead of time. Joe is happy because you have to go through the same stupid hoops he went through because pilots won't band together and stand up for themselves.
People, Joe, get pissed off when you get a job ahead of them despite thier experience etc.....
Buying a PPC, for some companies is acceptable practice and they will hire you ahead of joe, who has prostitued himself working the ramp despite him having a commercial license, for the same company. Here Joe gets hostile, hard work goes unnoticed etc.....
Buying float/twin time doesn't give you a job with any one company over another....equal chanecs everywhere....and if you buy 50 hours float time you're not getting a job with out working the dock ahead of time. Joe is happy because you have to go through the same stupid hoops he went through because pilots won't band together and stand up for themselves.
The difference is this when it comes to a very low time pilot. Give them 50 hours of training and supervision in float flying and they can probably handle a job on floats in one of the single engine float planes (not all of them so dont quote me the exceptions).
Give a low time pilot a minimum buy it PPC and the chances are you still do not have a really safe pilot to turn loose. There seems to be two groups that dont recognize this fact. First is the low time pilots who feel that they can fly anything with wings and just need a PPC to make them safe..and secondly the operators who really only care that they dont have to pay for the PPC and ignore the issues of safety, beating up the plane, extra maintainance, customer complaints etc. One only has to stand on the ramp and watch a Navajo pilot start up and taxi, or taxi in and shut down to see the level of some of these pilots....fuel caps being left off, flaps being left down, cowl flaps not being opened prior to start up, rolling stops with the engines shut down...the list goes on and on.
I stand by what I said previously ...this is not a case of moving up the line but trying to buy experience...and it doesnt work.
As to the transferability of PPCs. Seems that regardless of the particular companies training standards if a pilot has a PPC it makes no sense to have them do another..but I have to wonder how many companies do proper training (as is required) to already PPCd pilots...and by this I mean el shado's.
Give a low time pilot a minimum buy it PPC and the chances are you still do not have a really safe pilot to turn loose. There seems to be two groups that dont recognize this fact. First is the low time pilots who feel that they can fly anything with wings and just need a PPC to make them safe..and secondly the operators who really only care that they dont have to pay for the PPC and ignore the issues of safety, beating up the plane, extra maintainance, customer complaints etc. One only has to stand on the ramp and watch a Navajo pilot start up and taxi, or taxi in and shut down to see the level of some of these pilots....fuel caps being left off, flaps being left down, cowl flaps not being opened prior to start up, rolling stops with the engines shut down...the list goes on and on.
I stand by what I said previously ...this is not a case of moving up the line but trying to buy experience...and it doesnt work.
As to the transferability of PPCs. Seems that regardless of the particular companies training standards if a pilot has a PPC it makes no sense to have them do another..but I have to wonder how many companies do proper training (as is required) to already PPCd pilots...and by this I mean el shado's.
