Using the word "Trip"

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:48 pm

Does anyone know what the word trip means??

We're flying out of XL and get a bounce from dispatch. We told WG center we needed to go back to XL for another "trip". When we landed, they wanted us to call WG shift manager. This guy explained to us that the word "trip" is a code word for being hijacked and he could have called NORAD as well as violated us. I've never heard of this. No one at my company has heard of this, it's not in the AIP or CAR's. This guy said it's supposed to be something every pilot is supposed to know.

Is this guy on crack?? Has anyone heard of this word before?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:57 pm

I don't know if trip is some code word.

But most of us are airplane whores, so you would be O.K. using the word "Trick " Wave

There you go problem solved.

At your service.

Cat

N8 · Post by N8 » Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:39 pm

I know of one airline in particular that uses the word "trip" to indicate such an event. It's in their FOM.
As far as I know though there is nothing listed in the CARs, AIP, etc...

... · Post by **...** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 5:02 pm

The term 'Trip' is a term to advise the flight deck that there is a hostile element threatening to unlawfully take control of the aircraft from the cabin crew and or both.
It's an international term that has been around for years. ICAO standards that has been adopted by international airlines worlwide. Even terrorists know of it so it's not a big secret.

It can be used in the following example.

Intercom call from cabin crew to flight crew;
FA-"Captain I would like to speak to you about this trip"
Pilot- "I understand you want to speak to me about this 'trip'?"
FA- "Affirmative"

The flight crew will act accordingly to their COM SOP's and proceed with good judgement and secure the flight deck by locking the door (which nowadays is locked anyway) and advising ATC of the situation.

Pratt · Post by **Pratt** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 5:15 pm

Well I guess the cat is out of the bag.

What Birddog said pretty much sums it up. The use of that word, in that context has been around for a long time, amongst flightcrews and ATC. For ATC it can be used as a verbal indication of the problem if the crew is unable to change transponder codes.

Lets hope there are no terrorist lurkers out there.

Red1 · Post by **Red1** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:32 pm

how do you know this, I have never heard of this before? is it something picked up once you get to the Airlines.

tripleseven · Post by **tripleseven** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:00 pm

Our company SOP's use the word 'trip' in cabin-cockpit communications to signal that there is a hijacking on board. But, I didn't know it is used by ATC for the same reason.

I also heard that taxiing with your flaps all the way down was another way of alerting the tower that a hijack is in progress. Anyone else hear of that one?

DC6driver · Post by **DC6driver** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:06 pm

ya heard the flaps down

If cant communciate freely (ie, are forced to operate as if there is no hijack) i guess you drop trip on the end of your callsign

ie, "roger, maintain FL330, AirCanada 123 trip"

DiscoDashSeven · Post by **DiscoDashSeven** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:36 pm

I've actually heard of ATC warning someone when they said "roger, altimeter two-triple niner". All because of the 'TRIP'le. To me, thats getting a little extreme.

As for the flaps, I've heard of it but does ATC check every plane that lands to see if they're down on the taxi?

chewsta · Post by **chewsta** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 8:12 pm

Bede, There are no CARs or AIP or CFS reference for "trip" so it is unfair to the light a/c pilots to expect them all to know of this.

I know it appears in some COMs - and the flap position indicates the captain's intentions. IE if the a/c is parked on the ramp after a known hijacking and the flaps lower, it means the captain wants armed intervention, whereas up means the situation is stable. Again, I'm not sure how many COMs this appears in.

DC6driver · Post by **DC6driver** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 8:20 pm

wow that "triple-niner" sounds over the top

I am sure everyone has heard ATC/FSS triple up digits all the time

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 8:27 pm

Hey DiscoDashSeven, it's been a while since I've seen them but don't your SOP's mention the flap down thing.

DC6driver · Post by **DC6driver** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 10:08 pm

i seem to remember a question on it in the USATP written exam

Louis · Post by **Louis** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:25 pm

Here's something I found in a (unofficial) copy of the NavCanada MANOPS available on the VATCAN website (Virtual Air Traffic Control - Canada, part of the VATSIM network, where those interested can have actual people control their MS Flightsim and X-Plane flights, http://bathursted.ccnb.nb.ca/vatcan/vatcan.html and http://www.vatsim.net)

650 BOMB THREAT AND HIJACKING
651 HIJACK SIGNAL RESPONSES
651.1
Confirm receipt of an aircraft's hijack signal by:
(N)
651.1 Note 1:
An airborne aircraft subjected to unlawful
interference is expected to notify ATC by:
A. squawking code 7500;
B. suffixing the call sign with the word "TRIP"; or
C. including the phrase "transponder seven five
zero zero" in its radio transmission.

Now, that information should be put in a place that's actually accessible to all pilots. Not only those with applicable manops covering the topic.

A330 · Post by **A330** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:58 am

Around the world, especially these days it is quite well known in major airlines and should be taken seriously. Most arilines with ACARS have other means of transmitting emergencies.

Capt. S&J, ignorance is bliss..........maybe we should just mail the hijack info to all the terrorist sec's around the world. Having it wildly distributed in every flight manual would be a bad idea. It is mentioned in ground school training.

FL410 · Post by **FL410** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:47 am

Should this thread even stay around any longer?

Bcn-In-Bnd · Post by **Bcn-In-Bnd** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:50 am

9000 hours and almost 20yrs in this crazy business AND have never heard about this.

(i guess you learn something new every day)

Also, its bad enough trying to keep from braking CARS, let-alone rules like this.

Red1 · Post by **Red1** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:04 am

So I was pretty shocked when asked to call in. Medevac flight, busy because we were getting bounced. The ATC guy was really nice, but shocked that I'd never heard the word Trip - Hijack thing before. When I asked if it was published in any books... he said no, but I should have learned it in my initial training? I've got 4000 hrs and have never heard of this before. I phoned the ATC guy last night, just to confirm that I was expected to know this. I asked if I was VFR on 126.7 asking FSS for Wx. and I were to say " I'm on a VFR trip from Toronto to Sudbury looking for an update on the Wx." If this would be an issue with him. He said YES. I've said that many, many times on the radio over the years. Anyways he said he'd look to see what publications I could find a reference to this in, I'm guessing ICAO regulations handbook - not sure I want to hand out any coin for that one. Just remember, when your with Winnipeg ATC don't use the word trip!

control_man · Post by **control_man** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:04 am

The word "trip" does exisist and is taken very seriously when used in comm. with ATC. If ANY callsign is suffixed with the word "trip" in comm. ATC automatically assumes that the aircraft is encountering some sort of intervention. NORAD WILL be called and aircraft WILL be altered. This is no joke. IF you can't sqwuak 7500, but use the word "trip" it is usually assumed by ATC that their is armed intervention on board the flight deck.
Capt. S n J your comments are fucking retarded. Maybe they didn't tell you about it in your C172 groundschool course, but the big boys flying heavier metal than you will ever strive to acheive all know what the word means. You may think you know everything, but some things are on a need to know basis so that simpltons such as yourself don't blast off on tangents which you know nothing about.
A330 guy good points.....

CONTROL_MAN

Red1 · Post by **Red1** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:07 am

I have no issue with a specific word having a double meaning. Just teach me that word at some point in my training, especially if it's going to be taken so seriously.

Katmando · Post by **Katmando** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:14 am

This whole THREAD is in bad taste, security issues weather you know about them or not, agree with them or not or weather they are true or not should never be discussed on an open forum. THE ADMINISTRATOR SHOULD REMOVE THIS WHOLE THREAD.

Bcn-In-Bnd · Post by **Bcn-In-Bnd** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:38 am

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:50 am

For once I agree with a post made by S&J.

There comes a point in these issues where we have to use common sense and deal with things in a straightfoward manner, like putting fences around airports and searching up inside grannies bloomers at a security check point a determined terrorist will get around these "security" fixes and do what terrorists do.

So a code word thought up by some mentally challenged bureaucrat deep within the core of some government office is just window dressing.

By the way, I've flown in more countries than some here have airports and never heard of this code word....then again I don't fly heavy iron with passengers. However the fact still remains that I like many here had no idea that " trip" had any signifigance other than describe going somewhere.

I watched how El Al handle their security in Amsterdam a couple of weeks ago and thought to myself, now that is security not window dressing.

Cat

... · Post by **...** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:08 am

We are professional 'airplane people'.

We are not government secret intelligence.

This is not our area of expertise. There are reasons why we cannot deal with these things in a straight foward manner.

Capt. S&J, it's one thing to fly around Manitoba like it's no one's business transmitting the word 'TRIP' all all day long. Try it in Europe. Try it even in the states.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:37 am

O.K. ..if this code word is so important how come so many of us are not aware of its signifigance?

To be more precise, are there only certain pilots who are aware of using the word and the rest of us are just ignorant peasants that can be punished for not having been informed about the use of "trip".

Once again, all my flying is overseas and in the USA, in fact I am commuting back to Holland on the 21 st. last time I checked Holland was under Eurocontrol.

Cat