Not a Medevac?...Dont call yourself a Medevac..

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:11 am

Got vectors the other day to follow a "medevac"..a Be20...an EMPTY Be20. The pilots (assholes) parked on the ESSO ramp, and headed off for lunch! Do you guys enjoy the sound of "ABC medevac". Or is this some company SOP, because you fly a "Lifewhateverthefuckthatisflight" aircraft? Next time, I'll call your DFO about where to send the fuel bill.

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:29 am

this is a topic that started over 10 years ago, isn't it? I guess there'll always be assholes calling themselves a medevac when they aren't. :/

sideslip · Post by **sideslip** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:48 am

Usually when you are high priority, the ALS crew of your plane has to go in to the hospital to get the patient because the car crew aren't qualified enough to bring them out themselves so the pilots have time for lunch. You are still medevac even though the process takes a little longer than low priorities.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:02 am

Okay.....so, let's get this straight. You're a "medevac" even though you are going to go pick up a patient at a big city hospital (big rush to get him out of the ICU?), to transport him to a reserve? Keep pumping sunshine up your ass, there sport. We ain't buying it! It's an abuse....but some aren't big enough to admit it. I'm still calling the DFO (and the ambulance service involved) of any company I see doing this...try me. It's high time some jerks are held accountable for their actions.

PPP · Post by **PPP** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:30 pm

I’m one of those pilots and I know what you are saying, but go ahead and call the DFO and you'll find out that what they say goes. Any Medical Aircraft that is dedicated 100% is and shall be called medevac on all flights. This includes repositioning the airplane back to home base, and empty legs. I can tell you this that I only call medevac when going to get a patient or one's on board. Because I would assume the same as you seeing this. Until you know the facts of everything maybe reframe your self from posting next time and go and ask the pilots why instead of complaining like a baby.

prop2jet · Post by **prop2jet** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:42 pm

I’m one of those pilots and I know what you are saying, but go ahead and call the DFO and you'll find out that what they say goes. Any Medical Aircraft that is dedicated 100% is and shall be called medevac on all flights. This includes repositioning the airplane back to home base, and empty legs.

Having done the medevac "thing" and been in Mgmt to boot, I can tell you that if you are calling yourself a medevac for the purposes of repositioning the aircraft to another location - no patients involved you are abusing the system. I don't think it really matters whether the aircraft is solely dedicated or not as an air ambulance machine. You can call yourself a medevac for the purposes of positioning to pick up a patient requiring "advanced" or "critical" care. Though ATC is supposed to accord priority to Medevacs, it was if memory serves correct, not uncommon to hear them ask if we were a "priority".

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:46 pm

PPP, the problem with that attitude is that a lot of your priority status is granted by the other aircraft sharing the sky - if you abuse the 'privilege', you will lose it.

Govern yourself accordingly.

When I used to fly medevac or fire-fighting aircraft, we were always grateful to the ATC units and the other traffic that gave way for us to allow us to be "Heros of the North."

You are not "entitled" (the attitude that will written about in the future as the single cause of the fall of civilization).

Nightflight · Post by **Nightflight** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:05 pm

Doc wrote:Okay.....so, let's get this straight. You're a "medevac" even though you are going to go pick up a patient at a big city hospital (big rush to get him out of the ICU?), to transport him to a reserve? Keep pumping sunshine up your ass, there sport. We ain't buying it! It's an abuse....but some aren't big enough to admit it. I'm still calling the DFO (and the ambulance service involved) of any company I see doing this...try me. It's high time some jerks are held accountable for their actions.

Quite judgmental eh? Especially for a moderator eh? I hate people abusing the system too and understand your frustrations. I was until recently a MEDEVAC pilot and I assure you there are those occasions when you are MEDEVAC status and empty. It all depends on the situation. The most common one is if you are going somewhere to pick up a patient who requires the MEDEVAC status and no not to go back to the reserve, but perhaps to a higher facility. And since we don’t live in a perfect world sometimes there are delays form the hospital, or the ambulances could all be busy on other calls etc. We contact MOH (they coordinate all air ambulance activity in Ontario) once we land and they tell us that there is a delay and it's going to be about an hour till they bring out the patient. Time to grab lunch and believe me there isn’t a lot of breaks in a busy Medevac crew's day. Another example is if the sending facility does not have advanced care Medics and our Medics have to go in to stabilize the patient for transport. Time for lunch once again.
As far as determining which flight will be medevac status, the Medics tell me. There have been several occasions when the medics have told me enroute that the patient is doing well and we no longer need priority. When this happened we would promptly cancel our MEDEVAC status with ATC.
I hope this paints a clearer picture for you and I assure you that there are lots of us out there that would never abuse such a privilege. It's a matter of principle.
Cheers!!!

flyer · Post by **flyer** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:27 pm

out of curiosity, what part of the country are we talking about in this particular instance?

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:40 pm

PPP wrote:I’m one of those pilots and I know what you are saying, but go ahead and call the DFO and you'll find out that what they say goes. Any Medical Aircraft that is dedicated 100% is and shall be called medevac on all flights. This includes repositioning the airplane back to home base, and empty legs. I can tell you this that I only call medevac when going to get a patient or one's on board. Because I would assume the same as you seeing this. Until you know the facts of everything maybe reframe your self from posting next time and go and ask the pilots why instead of complaining like a baby.

Bullshit, I've heard Medevac pilots down here specifically tell tower when getting their clearence:

"Be advised tower we're not medevac for this flight"

Jerricho · Post by **Jerricho** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:41 pm

And this is the very reason we have to ask "are you a priority?". To me it sounds fekin' stupid, but when you have 2 or 3 medevacs arriving at once.........

Go Guns · Post by **Go Guns** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:44 pm

From what I remember, Manitoba was where the largest abuse of the term goes on.

Here in BC, the Ambulance service tells us when we need priority.

RFN · Post by **RFN** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:51 pm

As I remember;
In Ontario, you call yourself "MedEvac" when you have a priority patient on board.
In Manitoba, you call yourself "MedEvac" whenever you have any patient on board, AND when you are empty on your way to get a patient. If ATC asks "are you priority?", then ask the nurse / medic and they will tell you. Otherwise you act like an ambulance without the lights on.
I was told to think of the airplane as an ambulance. On the way to get someone we are MedEvac (same as an ambulance on the way to your house).
When we reposition to base, we are NOT MedEvac. We are the same as an land ambulance crew going for donuts.

ei ei owe · Post by **ei ei owe** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:54 pm

repositioning=nice cruise sans stinky piece of luggage and does not warrant medevac. If on route one gets a call to pick up aforementioned stinky luggage, status changes.

Easy isn't it? And the fact ATC notices the lack of a medevac descriptor on a dedicated machine (prompting the question, "are you medevac?") means the company is doing something to prevent the abuse of the system.

sdjfkosdjf · Post by **sdjfkosdjf** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:08 pm

Nightflight · Post by **Nightflight** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:29 pm

I have indeed seen it come down to minutes.

planett · Post by **planett** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:38 pm

The longer the RCMP officer is away from the community, the greater the chances are of another Medevac from that community.

turbo-prop · Post by **turbo-prop** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:27 pm

Doc get all your facts first. You can go into a major city Medevac priority when your flying into Calgary to piuck up an organ donar or a patient that needs to another city to get an organ. It is a time sensitive matter where minutes count. So if you where getting a donor heart from Calgary and your in Edmonton would you like your heart sitting on the ground in Calgary while your medevac plane is number 10 for the field in Calgary?

Hot Fuel · Post by **Hot Fuel** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:46 pm

Not often have I backed up any of Doc's comments but I think you missed his point...the crew dropping in to pick-up a priority organ will most likely not park and run off for lunch. Even if they were told things were running late and might be an hour. In this world of unexpected stuff happening one of those happening might an earlier arrive that previously stated...now wouldn't that be hard to explain?

Go Guns · Post by **Go Guns** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:51 pm

The Manitoba system turns a simple system complex. You either need priority or you don't. Just because you have a patient in the back, doesn't mean you need priority. I fly a dedicated machine in BC. I've done 4 days without using the medevac priority once. I've also done 4 days were we've done nothing but medevac calls. ATC out here never questions the priority. If we call ourselves a medevac, they get us from A to B as quickly as they can, because they know we need to. Very simple, and as far as I'm concerned, the way it should work.

Wasn't Me · Post by **Wasn't Me** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:06 pm

Doc write a letter to TC about it maybe if they get enough they will fix the problem. As for the Medivacs I've work some midnight shits when I would have 3 or 4 medivavcs with the same ETA. I would let them talk amongst themsevels and figure it out.

looproll · Post by **looproll** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:16 pm

Doc get all your facts first.

How about, "Doc, don't be an ignorant, whining b*tch"

sdjfkosdjf said it right.

The pilots (assholes)

A fact is that people sometimes DIE on medevac flights or they are about to. Why would you rant about having to wait another 4 minutes to get on the ground and get yourself all angry and worked-up jumping to conclusions? Stress is taking years off your life. RELAX. How do you like it when other crews from other companies pass judgment on you when they have no idea what's going on?

trey kule · Post by **trey kule** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:20 pm

Boy doc do I agree with you on this one. I have seen this abused and abused . I have also seen the abusers laugh about it after the flight when they got priority or did not have to go into a hold.

forget about calling the DO. Call transport. Let them determine whether it was really a medivac flight. They will act on it, as we have had this problem in the past, and when the DO gets a call from Transport usually something will change.

Hopefully some of the DOs or CPs reading this will bring it up at their next staff meeting to insure their company pilots demonstrate professionalism in their jobs.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:35 pm

Hey Looproll...this particular aircraft was still parked there three hours later. The crew got out and put prop ties and plugs in place. This flight, you know NOTHING about! Who's the "ignorant, whining bitch"? I've done one or two medevacs...just which of my "facts" would you like me to get first?

complexintentions · Post by **complexintentions** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:56 pm

Doc, man you got to get it under control. Relax.

I flew medevacs in BC and Manitoba and strived scrupulously to make sure my callsign matched the mission profile - always. But several YWG ACC controllers then told me this - FILE MEDEVAC FOR YOUR COMPANY EVERY TIME! They knew our company, our operation and preferred not to dick around trying to figure out what to call us. If there was some priority to be resolved, they would ask us.

This was only for YWG.

Honestly, you sound irrationally angry about something that doesn't concern you beyond possibly being delayed a couple minutes. Before you throw ALL the toys out of the stroller, could I suggest that you perhaps not take quite as strong an interest in other's affairs and just concentrate on your own? I highly doubt that any medevac delayed you to the degree it will change the course of history.

Go ahead and call Transport. They are not medically trained. If they try and second-guess a decision, who do you think will be liable? The fact of the matter is, you can't prove there wasn't SOME reason for them being a medevac. Trips get cancelled at every phase of the flight - perhaps theirs was as they taxiied in. Even if not true, that's all they'd have to say.

And I cringe a bit to think of the partial hearing loss anyone would risk by calling my former DFO and earnestly explaining to him how he ought to run his operation and pilots.

There is some room for the medevac callsign to be abused, and the onus is on crews to have some integrity and not abuse it. A VERY small few always will. It isn't your job to be the Medvac Callsign Police, and it looks amateurish to try. Especially if you don't know all of the particulars of the situation.