where does it begin ?
I often hear young pilots with only 250 hrs refusing to take place in the right seat on a single turbo engine... but the problem is how do you get on the left side if you don't go first on the right ?
what's your idea about that and how did you began?
I think that the 250 hour wonders that think that they are going to go left seat right away on a turbo prop had better get there ass's outta there head.
When you got NO time you'll be lucky to get a job on a C-172 right away let alone right seat on a turbo prop like the 208(Yes I know with the industry it is happening right now).
I don't know of anyone with that little time not willing to go to the right seat first.
I do share the view with some of my peers that someone with barely any PIC time will get stuck for a long time in the right seat with no way of building the required left seat time to convert.
My take on it is that at 250 hours can't be picky. If the job and opportunity for a right seat flying is there, grab onto it. Most cases are that you'll be upgraded to left and do fine. If you run into problems of flying right seat for quite a while, ask around the company and see what the normal promotion period is, if you've exceeded it, take it up with your boss and see what's happening and see if there is a chance to upgrade or if it's really worth sticking with the company anymore.
Best bet would be becoming an instructor... get 50 more hours, and work somewhere as a class 4 and at least earn PIC time sitting out of the right seat Quite a nifty experience i am sure.
Sitting in the right seat of a single, for a few flights?
Priceless.
Staying in there for more than a few flights?
Useless, pointless and ultimately moronic. Unless: any company that has a right-seater in a single turbine should be swapping legs, letting the newby log it. Its only a single, right (the new guy probably has more recent currency in engine failure scenarios than you do); THEN I will anoint it.
You can't log it, you can't use it, you should be somewhere else. Left seat in a single turbine? All you have to do is recognise a redline and know to never, ever exceed it. Radials, big ones that is, are way harder to operate - they're just cheaper.
Fire away.
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GearBay Overheat wrote:Average price of a new PT6 engine is $250,000.
Average cost of damage resulting from Overtemping $100,000
Gaining some experience before going PIC on a Turbine....
Priceless.
I don't think that is a very good argument.
Starting a turbine can be taught in a short period of time. There are easily managed variables. That is monkey work in comparison, so butt-in-the-seat time isn't an issue for that particular technical activity.
Aircraft handling and decision making certainly is an issue. The "time". or more importantly experience/maturity issue has more to do with decision making, and management, not about minor technical issues like handling engine parameters.
altiplano wrote:Haven't heard that one yet - When I started out I would have given my left nut to just get in a frickin plane...
Are times that different now?
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I do't know Altiplano but thing is that I've been very surprised when I heard that young pilots didn't want to do right seat... Which is not my case cause I'd give a arm to get on any right seat when I'll have my CPL
so, I was wondering who was really wrong = thanks for your answers
I didn't want right seat either, or instructing for that matter, so I went and flew singles, built PIC, flew twins PIC, then flew turbine twins as PIC, then went back to singles PIC, albeit with rotors this this time, then twins with rotors PIC... SIC time? 150hrs mostly type conversions.
If you want to be co-joe forever, take the right seat job.
since when do guys with 200 hours get right seat on pc-12's anyways? I thought that was a 2nd job type not entry level? Shit, Id do that with 200 hours....get my fill, enjoy it...move on. Or is that more of a "right place right time/200 hour man knows the owner" type deal?
Why don't we just call this thread "Lets bash low time pilots".
I have never heard of a job for a turbine single with qualification requirements of only 250Hrs. I am pretty sure that any low time pilot would jump at such a job.
So, with that in mind, lets examin the first entry to this thread. First we set up a straw man, specifically a mythical low time pilot who is "too good" to sit right seat in a, say pc-12. (implied I suppose). Then the predictable outrage about the arrogant young pilots (or 250Hr wonders as they are so condescendingly referred to) who think they are so great.
What is it with people here that they find a need to do this kind of thing? Everyone has to start out. Give these people a break man.
I am behind spokes 100%, sure you might run into a couple low time guys that think they are the hottest thing since top gun but the majority are not. They all are after the same goal as all are, and that is a rewarding career as a PILOT. So before all you low time bashers try pulling out your log books for show and tell, how about you think back to your low time days and some of the shit you had to put up with. And to all you low time guys that think your too good for right seat in a PC-12 etc. Get your head out of your ass and face reality. You have to start somewhere.
And to all you low time guys that think your too good for right seat in a PC-12 etc. Get your head out of your ass and face reality. You have to start somewhere.
I cant believe any low timer would think like that. They seriously need a couple kicks to the pill box. Im fairly young, if I were to get a right seat job in a, lets say pc-12 at 22, 23 y's/o...how amazing would that be (providing you could live off of it)?!
Most guys my age that I know go from job to job, biatch work, and most likely will for a long time because of unclear career goals (I suppose). Id love to go back to my buds at 22, 23, 24 and say I cruise around all day in a nice ride. At that point, yeah logging time building experience is a biggy. But shit, even if the time was useless...Id enjoy that, great OVERALL experience.
Although it may be useless toward a further license it is only "useless" if you make it so - Any time you can fly with someone more experienced than yourself you should be able to learn and take something away from it. The amount you would learn flying IFR, hell just flying in an actual 703/704 op as a new pilot is huge! Plus it will help you get another job that fulfills you and your logbook -
Don't get me wrong I mean I would have never flown right seat on a -12 or 208 but I'm just saying.......
Agreed. I know of no low timers who would sneer at such a right seat job.
Altiplano, Very true. I completely agree. Even if time does not count to yout ATP it is valuable experience. What you get out of it is what you put in.
An to Peace Air, Good on ya. Always like to see some low time pilots getting a chance.
PC- 12 and C-208 right seat time does count toward your ATPL. You need a PCC and a company ops manual that states you're required crew, or if your company ops manual doesn't state that, no auto pilot, or more than 8hrs of flight time in a day to require your presence.
Anyone who says that this time doesn't count is wrong. I had both 208 and pc-12 FO time towards my atpl and it was signed off without a problem. I did have supporting documentation from the COM to prove i was required crew.
I just got my first flying job about two months ago, as an FO on a PC 12. I had 200hrs when I was hired, and I worked the ramp while I was getting my CPL to get the job. I make enough money to get by in one of the funnest cities in Canada, and the company is really great to work for. There's absolutly nothing wrong with flying right seat in a single engine plane, I'm learning more and getting better experience than I ever did during my MIFR and CPL (no offence to my instructor). The upgrade to twin engine planes and then to captain will come eventually, and meanwhile I couldnt ask for more. BTW it's pretty easy to forget your in a single when your going faster than a King Air.
I find it funny that people are so quick to bash a right seat pilot in a PC12. Doesn't the 12 fly higher, faster, farther carry a bigger load and have more sophisticated avionics than many twin engine turbine aircraft out there today? So other than the fact that you only have one stove up front it's pretty much the same if not with more performance. The fact that you're flying a multi is kind of a mute point as unless the engine fails you fly the thing pretty much the same way.
The difference comes when it's time to move onto another company. Larger companies will still take a king Air or Cheyenne pilot first over a PC12 driver.
The difference between flying right seat PC12 or right seat king Air is simply the column it goes into in your logbook. The 2 jobs are identical.
teacher wrote: Larger companies will still take a king Air or Cheyenne pilot first over a PC12 driver.
WJ has taken guys who's largest command was PC-12 or C-208B. I know one of each who works there. I don't have AC info, but I would be shocked to hear that they haven't hired some in the same boat.
