i'm completely confused on this subject, as i've been told completely different things by completely different instructors... i keep asking people but everyone seems to have their own idea about what the ACTUAL tendency is when you're turning at low altitudes in high winds...
this is what i thought:
turning from into-wind to downwind, illusion of slip occurs from wind drifting you inwards.
tendency is to apply inside rudder to stop the "slip" (essentially putting the aircraft into a skid).
turning from downwind to into-wind, illusion of skid occurs due to wind pushing you outwards.
tendency is to apply outside rudder to stop the "skid" (essentially putting the aircraft into a slip).
the aircraft is actually co-ordinated the whole time, until you apply rudder to deal with the illusion. but which rudder does the pilot have a tendency to apply? i've been told that it's actually the opposite, that you tend to apply outside rudder if you think you're slipping, causing the illusion to come true, and vice versa for a skid.
what have you been taught? what do you think makes sense?
sorry if this question has already been asked, i searched but couldn't find anything related to it.
thanks!
Illusions Created By Drift
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Pilot_adam
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pretty sure it is ex. 20.......just before precautionaries......one of those things you can through in anywhere........
Pretty boring to do so some instructors might ignore it. mainly you go up and try to fly in a perfect circle on a windy day.....or try to do 180'd around a road so that you are perpendicular to the road as you get over top of it......great ex. for a cloudy windy day.
Pretty boring to do so some instructors might ignore it. mainly you go up and try to fly in a perfect circle on a windy day.....or try to do 180'd around a road so that you are perpendicular to the road as you get over top of it......great ex. for a cloudy windy day.
I think the confusion comes from the difference between what you see from the cockpit, and what you as an instructor know the aircraft is doing over the ground. In the turn from downwind to base, it looks like a skid, so the tendency there would be to apply outside rudder. However, you know the aircraft isn't turning fast enough to maintain a square track over the ground, so your instructor brain says apply inside rudder. Think of it from the perspective of a student who will interpret what he sees out the window, and not what he knows of the aircraft's track over the ground. He will see a skid, and therefore will apply outside rudder.
Did that help?
Did that help?
Maybe at an uncontrolled airport with no other traffic. Doing this at a tower controlled busy airport will distract the student from the lesson.Pugster wrote:Try teaching this exercise in the circuit on a windy day. Fly 500' circuits to get a better view of the ground - it makes it more interesting as well...
Agreed - but this is a classic example of a lesson that is best taught by the instructor flying and the student just kicking back and watching. So in this case, fly as the instructor, and busy airport or not the student should be able to pick up the visual cues associated with flying in higher winds close to terrain. I do agree wholeheartedly that this is best taught at a small uncontrolled strip with little or no traffic - but you have to work with what you've got...
The thing with drift is that it sneaks up on you if you're not paying specific attention to it. When you are at low altitude and low speed in a high wind things just look wrong in the turn and you will find yourself using the rudder. What has to happen, (and one of the points of the lesson) is that when you are in a high wind situation you must take a look at the ball before you change your rudder inputs.i normally dont care what illusions are... i only answer the questions when asked... i prefer instruments when im not sure whats going on.
It is also a good idea to use this lesson to lead into wind/drift awareness in general (as related to the student). This is the lesson where it is good to point out how to modify your circuit procedures to accomodate wind conditions (base turns, power settings, ect...). Helping the student to get a good grip on drift here will pay of later during forced approaches. It is very common for people to miss the field on a windy day; they turn in on base/final at the regular time, get blown wide and then .... game over.
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newfycontrol
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mellow_pilot
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Don't get suckered into staring at the instruments. You'll end up depending on them and not looking outside. This will eventually lead to chasing needles and then when you get to IFR, you've already got ass-loads of bad habits and you've just fucked yourself.klm691heavy wrote:i normally dont care what illusions are... i only answer the questions when asked... i prefer instruments when im not sure whats going on.
Do yourself a big favour and learn to fly without the instruments. You'll have plenty of time to stare at them later.
$0.02
Dyslexics of the world... UNTIE!
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TC Aviator
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