This one is for Front. You know you had a problem with this individual instructor, so you changed it and left. Your gone now so why bother with the bad mouthing still? Do you actually think its going to do you any good? I DONT THINK SO! I dont know what you think you are going to accomplish here, my opinion is nothing...Maybe just a whole bunch of ppl that think you are a childish dumb ass, but thats about it!
I can definately tell you that you are not the only student in the history of flying that has ever had a problem a instructor. I dont know where you get off thinking that it is a good idea to to rant about people on a forum like this! Its not going to get you anywhere. Clearly you are a disturbed individual to let something like this bother you for so long. Most normal people in your situation would just drop it. You are gone, and if it was such a traumatic experience that you just cant leave it alone...Maybe you should seek professional help!?!
A Job for ANY Desperate Flight Instructors (MontairAviation)
Moderators: Sulako, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia
Anyone remember the WWFC thread a while back?Isn't it interesting how Montair can be named, bashed and have shit thrown all over it here, but other flight schools are defended like the honour of a Sicillian virgin?
"A good traveller has no fixed plan and is not intent on arriving." -Lao Tzu
One thing before the topic gets closed, what can you expect from you adults who are spending so much time flamming a kid then? If you'd be normal adults with happy lives, you would of ignored this post and moved on as well. Perhaps you guys should seek professional help on what other stuff to spend ur life with. Afterall, i am only a kid right... 
Anyway you guys, have fun ranting on eachother.
Im out, good day
Anyway you guys, have fun ranting on eachother.
Im out, good day
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Justwannafly
- Rank 8
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- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:12 am
- Location: Cyberspace
nope what was it about?Grey_Wolf wrote:Anyone remember the WWFC thread a while back?Isn't it interesting how Montair can be named, bashed and have shit thrown all over it here, but other flight schools are defended like the honour of a Sicillian virgin?
btw as for front...yea he IS quite piss'd off It would seem...but I belive he was the most upset about what was said behind his back after he left...as a result it looks like he's repaying his former instructor the favor....just to a wider audience
I would encourage people who have had bad experiences with companies to come out and say what happened. Before I read this thread I had no idea what Montair was, now I know that most that have come in contact with the company wish they wouldnt have. Thats good to know. However "Front" we dont need ten of the same posts about why montair sucks from you alone. You said your piece, obviously you have moved on and are still training, so good for you. However we dont need any more posts from you about how Montair sucks.
Thank You.
Thank You.
I carry my crucifix
Under my deathlist
Forward my mail to me in hell
Liars and the martyrs
Lost faith in The Father
Long lost in the wishing well
Wild side
Under my deathlist
Forward my mail to me in hell
Liars and the martyrs
Lost faith in The Father
Long lost in the wishing well
Wild side
[quote]I would encourage people who have had bad experiences with companies to come out and say what happened. Before I read this thread I had no idea what Montair was, now I know that most that have come in contact with the company wish they wouldnt have.
Yes I have no problem with ppl sharing their experiences either. Because it is a free world after all. But it is mindless ppl like Front. who give the whole company and everyone associated with it a bad rep, when in actual fact it is a really good school, with great instructors, and most of the time friendly ppl. All front has to share is bad things associated with the company. Why dont we start a thread about all of the great experiences ppl have shared at Montair, and ppl like Hoov can see what they are really about???(I dont expect that ppl do this ....but its to make a point!)
Yes I have no problem with ppl sharing their experiences either. Because it is a free world after all. But it is mindless ppl like Front. who give the whole company and everyone associated with it a bad rep, when in actual fact it is a really good school, with great instructors, and most of the time friendly ppl. All front has to share is bad things associated with the company. Why dont we start a thread about all of the great experiences ppl have shared at Montair, and ppl like Hoov can see what they are really about???(I dont expect that ppl do this ....but its to make a point!)
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mellow_pilot
- Rank 10
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- Location: Pilot Purgatory
I for one am more than happy to talk about any company I've done business with. I will tell the truth of what happened and in most cases recommend for or against if someone wants to know.
I think it's important to share with the broader community so that others can benefit from your experience.
I do, however, realise from experience that it is sometimes hard to be objective while still involved with a company (though it is possible). We often have alot invested in the situation and can't seperate our feelings from the facts. That said, it's still important to help others out by sharing.
Front, I feel your pain. I would offer a little advice and say that your piece has been said, leave it at that. Some poeple don't want to hear it, as the are still invested in the company on some level. Those who will benefit form your expereince already have. Although you may be right and totally justified in continuing to tell the story, it's not worth the headache that it brings... trust me.
I think it's important to share with the broader community so that others can benefit from your experience.
I do, however, realise from experience that it is sometimes hard to be objective while still involved with a company (though it is possible). We often have alot invested in the situation and can't seperate our feelings from the facts. That said, it's still important to help others out by sharing.
Front, I feel your pain. I would offer a little advice and say that your piece has been said, leave it at that. Some poeple don't want to hear it, as the are still invested in the company on some level. Those who will benefit form your expereince already have. Although you may be right and totally justified in continuing to tell the story, it's not worth the headache that it brings... trust me.
Dyslexics of the world... UNTIE!
Yeah okay Mellow. I see what your point is and i'd have to say i agree with you.
As for updraft: i rage off when people piss me off regarding things that aren't true. See, when people go on and discuss about how i am a cocky kid and how that reflects my financial position, it makes me sad to realize how else these guys would make their money. Not saying that it's all the rich people running the company, but it's certainly not the people from the sides of the street's paying 45 k to do their flight training.
With all that being said, I do have good experiences to share from montair, but the negative aspects are so much more that i just start forgetting when i get caught up in the moment of explaining how bad my experience in total was with them.
I personally don't feel like commenting on the good sides of montair because what they did was wrong, and very rude. I am not saying i am the most polite person in the world, but i was definately not a pain in the ass for them. As for payments, preparations, being on time, being enthusiastic, and always keeping a smile on my face, i bet even if you ask my previous instructor who i don't very much associate with now, he'd tell you the same.
When a person like me, tends to put all his effort and time into trying to make something good out of flying, and then get shut out by your instructor, who told you, you were his best students, and that he enjoyed flying with you, and then at the change of a few days, becomes a total dick gets on my nerves. When that situation occurs, i start looking back at what people have said about montair and what the hell i am doing here if i am going through the same crap. I hope you start to realize where i am coming from and what basis i set my principles on.
I've said it to this day to everybody who asked me why i left montair. I said, don't you think it was Al. I have never had any problems with, and i always said hi and check up on how he was doing. What i do and will always do is notify people of which instructors are good and which of them are bad. I'll also tell them to watch out how they log hours with them. Don't get me wrong, there are a few top quality instructors there, and if i am not mistaken, PF, you're one of them. So go on, enjoy life, and choose your flight school wisely, at least that's what i learnt out of this whole thing.
Good Night everybody.
As for updraft: i rage off when people piss me off regarding things that aren't true. See, when people go on and discuss about how i am a cocky kid and how that reflects my financial position, it makes me sad to realize how else these guys would make their money. Not saying that it's all the rich people running the company, but it's certainly not the people from the sides of the street's paying 45 k to do their flight training.
With all that being said, I do have good experiences to share from montair, but the negative aspects are so much more that i just start forgetting when i get caught up in the moment of explaining how bad my experience in total was with them.
I personally don't feel like commenting on the good sides of montair because what they did was wrong, and very rude. I am not saying i am the most polite person in the world, but i was definately not a pain in the ass for them. As for payments, preparations, being on time, being enthusiastic, and always keeping a smile on my face, i bet even if you ask my previous instructor who i don't very much associate with now, he'd tell you the same.
When a person like me, tends to put all his effort and time into trying to make something good out of flying, and then get shut out by your instructor, who told you, you were his best students, and that he enjoyed flying with you, and then at the change of a few days, becomes a total dick gets on my nerves. When that situation occurs, i start looking back at what people have said about montair and what the hell i am doing here if i am going through the same crap. I hope you start to realize where i am coming from and what basis i set my principles on.
I've said it to this day to everybody who asked me why i left montair. I said, don't you think it was Al. I have never had any problems with, and i always said hi and check up on how he was doing. What i do and will always do is notify people of which instructors are good and which of them are bad. I'll also tell them to watch out how they log hours with them. Don't get me wrong, there are a few top quality instructors there, and if i am not mistaken, PF, you're one of them. So go on, enjoy life, and choose your flight school wisely, at least that's what i learnt out of this whole thing.
Good Night everybody.
Last edited by Front. on Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Justwannafly
- Rank 8
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- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:12 am
- Location: Cyberspace
Why don't you?Updraft wrote: Why dont we start a thread about all of the great experiences ppl have shared at Montair
Not all pilots are rich....took me years to save up the $ to get my licence.....& I'm still up to my neck in debtFront. wrote: certainly not the people from the sides of the street's paying 45 k to do their flight training.
but you still did manage to pay through your training and are working now. You're not from the side of hastings street and you've managed to become educated and a pilot. The training is what i am getting at. Because that's the only thing that affects the rumors that are set behind you obviously. It's obvious, not everybody has a ton of pocket fillers, but that's life. I just don't think anybody's financial position is any of the instructors business at the school. That's my opinion on it. If i recall correctly, i have heard that people leaving montair regardless if they're students, or employers, are always looked down upon because the company seems to believe that there is no body better than them? I am starting to see if that relates to my experience.
Some people have money, others have some, some have none. There is however no explanation or reasoning to use somebody's financial position and send out degrading morals about that person. This applies to everybody, not just me. I am sure there are more of such rumors around about a few other students who left.
I am sure the instructor understood he made a mistake, and i believe we all do mistakes regardless of how experienced we are. I did the mistake of ranting on the company while the only profile i should of really touched if anything, should of been my instructor.
I am not going to send out appologies though because my experience is true and it is of what many others know are true as well; especially many of you who have replied and are still tied with the company (like mellow) said.
So i am going to leave it at that
Back to the FT forums
Some people have money, others have some, some have none. There is however no explanation or reasoning to use somebody's financial position and send out degrading morals about that person. This applies to everybody, not just me. I am sure there are more of such rumors around about a few other students who left.
I am sure the instructor understood he made a mistake, and i believe we all do mistakes regardless of how experienced we are. I did the mistake of ranting on the company while the only profile i should of really touched if anything, should of been my instructor.
I am not going to send out appologies though because my experience is true and it is of what many others know are true as well; especially many of you who have replied and are still tied with the company (like mellow) said.
So i am going to leave it at that
Back to the FT forums
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av8tor_assrope
- Rank 6
- Posts: 439
- Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:34 pm
....hey fronty haven't we heard this from you before. this has got to be the 10th time you said you were not going to post anymore.So i am going to leave it at that
Back to the FT forums
cheers
I want to die like my grandfather did, peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming in terror like his passengers...
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mellow_pilot
- Rank 10
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- Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:04 am
- Location: Pilot Purgatory
I'll chime in here with ACTUAL knowledge of the outfit and will go on the record with any and all of my comments. I did my Private and Most of my commercial with Montair.
Yes the owner (Al) can be hard to take.. BUT as said he runs a tight ship with for the most part a good and well cared for fleet of aircraft and SOME fine instructors. I had the pleasure of flying with 5 different guys throughout my tenure there. All of which were fantastic to deal with and taught me a great deal at the time. However.. I believe only two of those gentlemen are still with it. Others have gone on to bigger and better things in the industry.
Most of the gripes I see happen at ALL flight schools to some extent. Remember kids.. the flight school is not there to take care of you and anything outside of your actual flight training. If you have a problem with it.. take it up with them immediatly.. They aren't going to be asking you how you think they're doing.
The only actual problems I had were with some of the limitations on aircraft rental for the purposes of cross countries. But thats fine.. I ended up with a share in another aircraft for all of that. Non-issue..
I was also a little suprised (not neccesarily upset) when they told me they were Too busy to do my MIFR at the time.. Ohh well! My money thus went elsewhere
Take everything with a grain of salt.
Yes the owner (Al) can be hard to take.. BUT as said he runs a tight ship with for the most part a good and well cared for fleet of aircraft and SOME fine instructors. I had the pleasure of flying with 5 different guys throughout my tenure there. All of which were fantastic to deal with and taught me a great deal at the time. However.. I believe only two of those gentlemen are still with it. Others have gone on to bigger and better things in the industry.
Most of the gripes I see happen at ALL flight schools to some extent. Remember kids.. the flight school is not there to take care of you and anything outside of your actual flight training. If you have a problem with it.. take it up with them immediatly.. They aren't going to be asking you how you think they're doing.
The only actual problems I had were with some of the limitations on aircraft rental for the purposes of cross countries. But thats fine.. I ended up with a share in another aircraft for all of that. Non-issue..
I was also a little suprised (not neccesarily upset) when they told me they were Too busy to do my MIFR at the time.. Ohh well! My money thus went elsewhere
Take everything with a grain of salt.
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Justwannafly
- Rank 8
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- Location: Cyberspace
IN DEFENCE OF MONTAIR
OK...I’ve been watching this thread for the last few days & admittedly finding some of the comments quite humorous. So far I have been taking a middle stance with my comments because I haven’t’ actually found any untrue statements being made here. How do I know this?....Well I use to work at Montair & so I’m uniquely qualified to comment on the in’s & out’s of the company. NO I will not bring up any stories…I’ve got quite a few I assure you, but good & bad but I don’t feel like posting them. Do I understand the comments posted above? Yes I do…However they all emphasize the negative aspects of Montair & none of the Positive. First of all…despite Al’s many faults, you could do worse (I remember a non-aviation employer who use to show up stoned every day)
I stand by my previous statement that the traits of the employer do effect the entire company, but there are 2 redeeming traits that have not been mentioned here.
ONE Al only hires the best, he has a very high standard that instructors have to meet. Many are interviewed, few are hired. There are a lot of companies who will hire people sight unseen just from their resume, and others who guarantee instructors a job after they finish their training, regardless of how bad you are as an instructor. What does this mean? Well it means that you get some high caliber instructors instructing at Montair.....though some less high caliber instructors still do manage to get through, but that’s life....nothing’s perfect.
TWO Al has high safety standards on his aircraft. His aircraft are some of the best maintained aircraft you will ever train on….He also has a lot of new aircraft…What does this mean?...well it means that you’re a bit safer when flying I guess…but it also means that you are flying quality aircraft.
Add the quality instructors to the quality aircraft & you have an efficient quality organization…just not a very relaxed organization
BTW B4 anyone accuses me of being of being bias to Al & Montair…me & Al did not leave on the best of terms so I am not some naive pilot just defending him because he’s my role model…far from it…As far as I'm concerned the negative way outways the positive...I just think that both sides should be represented…There are 2 sides to every coin
OK...I’ve been watching this thread for the last few days & admittedly finding some of the comments quite humorous. So far I have been taking a middle stance with my comments because I haven’t’ actually found any untrue statements being made here. How do I know this?....Well I use to work at Montair & so I’m uniquely qualified to comment on the in’s & out’s of the company. NO I will not bring up any stories…I’ve got quite a few I assure you, but good & bad but I don’t feel like posting them. Do I understand the comments posted above? Yes I do…However they all emphasize the negative aspects of Montair & none of the Positive. First of all…despite Al’s many faults, you could do worse (I remember a non-aviation employer who use to show up stoned every day)
I stand by my previous statement that the traits of the employer do effect the entire company, but there are 2 redeeming traits that have not been mentioned here.
ONE Al only hires the best, he has a very high standard that instructors have to meet. Many are interviewed, few are hired. There are a lot of companies who will hire people sight unseen just from their resume, and others who guarantee instructors a job after they finish their training, regardless of how bad you are as an instructor. What does this mean? Well it means that you get some high caliber instructors instructing at Montair.....though some less high caliber instructors still do manage to get through, but that’s life....nothing’s perfect.
TWO Al has high safety standards on his aircraft. His aircraft are some of the best maintained aircraft you will ever train on….He also has a lot of new aircraft…What does this mean?...well it means that you’re a bit safer when flying I guess…but it also means that you are flying quality aircraft.
Add the quality instructors to the quality aircraft & you have an efficient quality organization…just not a very relaxed organization
BTW B4 anyone accuses me of being of being bias to Al & Montair…me & Al did not leave on the best of terms so I am not some naive pilot just defending him because he’s my role model…far from it…As far as I'm concerned the negative way outways the positive...I just think that both sides should be represented…There are 2 sides to every coin
Last edited by Justwannafly on Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Internet Forum 101 -Hoov wrote:Before I read this thread I had no idea what Montair was, now I know that most that have come in contact with the company wish they wouldnt have. Thats good to know.
Take it all with a big grain of salt. I mean a real big one. Allow it to make you cautious - but don't let other people formulate your opinions.
I doubt "most" is the case - just "most" that have posted on this thread which is by no means the authority on Canadian aviation training.
I think Montair was pretty good but I can see why some people won't ever get along with Al. Fine. You have to be pretty secure in yourself to not let him get to you... I liked that they had the best equipment at zbb, it was always clean, had good instructors (when I was there anyway), always had lots of parking out front and there was no fucking around.
Those things were important to me. I liked it. Al can take the piss all he wants, he owns the place and I just took the piss right back at him. SFW. Get over it.
As for some guy getting his apartment trashed. It's your responsibility. Doesn't matter who trashed my place, my landlord would hold me responsible. Grow some balls and get over it.
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PilotFlying
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- Location: As close to home as the # gets me...
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vicissitudinary
- Rank 0
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- Location: Vancouver
How bad is bad??
Well, this has all been very interesting. I've read posts on these forums for a number of years but until now never got around to posting anything. As I've just completed my instructor rating in the Lower Mainland I've taken more of an interest recently - looking for my first job and all that. I was considering applying to Montair - now not so sure! I would guess that the original post came from someone who works or did work there...? A lot of people leave their jobs with a negative attitude, aviation or not. So what I would like to know from 'Montair', is obviously you have bad feeling for the Company, but does that mean I should NEVER consider working there, or is it still worth it to build hours so I can move on to what I really want to do. How many other instructors would never recommend there previous flight schools as employers??? I have good and bad stories about a lot of the schools at CZBB - anyone got any other opinions - especially if you worked there! How much should a new instructor care about working conditions if it gets you where you want to go?
If you're of strong character.. will work hard and let shit roll off your back when it flies.. Montair is a great place to be.
Echoing previous statements.. Great equipment. Well kept. Clean. The owner is quite meticulous and stringent. The instructors I've found to be always top notch.
There are a ton of schools that don't hold a candle to the end result that montair provides.
I always got along just dandy with Senor Al. You truly just have to learn how to deal with all types of people in life. Not everyone is going to hold your hand and blow sunshine up your ass.
Echoing previous statements.. Great equipment. Well kept. Clean. The owner is quite meticulous and stringent. The instructors I've found to be always top notch.
There are a ton of schools that don't hold a candle to the end result that montair provides.
I always got along just dandy with Senor Al. You truly just have to learn how to deal with all types of people in life. Not everyone is going to hold your hand and blow sunshine up your ass.
Wish I came up with that one... Nice.Rowdy wrote:Not everyone is going to hold your hand and blow sunshine up your ass.
And for the guy who just got his instructor rating - you better make it what you want to do if you want to succeed in this industry - not to mention you'll be doing everyone a disservice if you're only teaching to get some time and get out and not to take a serious interest in the development of your students. It's all too common and one of the biggest problems with this industry - feckin blind leadin the blind..........
Yah, this is one bad ass company....and, ah...by the way, the email address did not work. do you think I could fax my resume?
This is the kind of thread that makes me embarrassed to be a pilot. If you did not like the company..quit. But be a big enough person to walk away without this type of tripe. They may be bad bad bad, but they get as much respect from me as the little gossip mongers that posted here
This is the kind of thread that makes me embarrassed to be a pilot. If you did not like the company..quit. But be a big enough person to walk away without this type of tripe. They may be bad bad bad, but they get as much respect from me as the little gossip mongers that posted here
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mellow_pilot
- Rank 10
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- Location: Pilot Purgatory
Out of curiosity, when is gossip good information, and when is it gossip?
Why is it so bad to have an opinion. Now I'll admit that this particular thread started not as a question but as an axe-grinding session, that aside, why is sharing information a bad thing?
Why is it so bad to have an opinion. Now I'll admit that this particular thread started not as a question but as an axe-grinding session, that aside, why is sharing information a bad thing?
Dyslexics of the world... UNTIE!
