Commercial on Floats?

[Random]

I'm new to the forums, but thought this question could be best asked here among float pilots more than in the flight training forum. Feel free to move it if there are objections.

I'm currently undertaking my PPL, and am starting to look towards the future more in terms of my CPL, and I know that for certain I would like to fly floats at some point in my career. Which brings up the question.

Would it be more beneficial to undertake my CPL at a float school, taking all of my hours needed for my CPL there, giving me roughly 150 hours on floats, or perhaps taking only 50 hours at a float school, and the remainder at another CPL school in order to keep costs down.

I'm currently looking at Air-Hart in Kelowna, BC for their 50 hour Bush course which would include the float rating, but their 150 hour course runs around a daunting $34,000, where as I could manage obtaining my CPL with 50 hours on floats for around $25,000 ballpark. Air-Hart runs a Cessna HawkXP, the remainder of my training would be done on the 172

Which would be the most efficent route is perhaps what I am wondering what this forum would recommend.

Thanks in advance!

[. ._]

I did a quick search of this site, and didn't find any whopper threads discussing the pros and cons, just a few small threads.

IMHO, DO IT! DO IT! DO IT!

If you wanna get into float flying as a job, getting your CPL on floats is a GREAT idea.

You might want to consider Confederation College too, if you're thinking Air Canada down the road. A/C counts an aviation diploma from these guys as one little bonus point towards getting the interview.

http://www2.confederationc.on.ca/aviation-flight-mgmt/

Good luck whichever way you choose!

-istp

[MUSICMAAN]

I did my comercial training with Air-Hart. Damn good Idea! I don't know who they have for instructors now-a-day's, but if you go there, try and get most of your training with Trevor himself.

[Random]

I appreciate the positive feedback so far istp and musicman, It helps in terms of getting things straightened out for myself. And makes me feel all the better about the decision.

But still, as for doing 150hours on floats, or only 50 of my CPL hours on floats, I know 150 would be tremendously beneficial in the longrun, but would 50 be suitable enough?

[altiplano]

99% of the time 200 hours is going to get you on the dock - 50 or 150 hours on floats isn't going to make a big difference.

Do a good job and after a season on the dock with a half decent company and another hundred or so hours of float time scraped together you'll be happy that you saved the $10000 and could afford to eat all summer. Then you can go back and do it again next year and maybe get into the seat on a regular basis.

[Rudder Bug]

Good point Altiplano!

[xsbank]

Do it! Its a different approach and there's no reason why it wouldn't work. In fact, get the smallest, cheapest float plane you can find and train on that (save your money). Something that flies like a fully-loaded (over-lpaded) stoneboat. Get the checkout on the XP for fun, but go cheap.

I got my first flying job with 50 hours floats, empty legs, freight on a 180.

[Random]

Thanks for all the feedback, Alti your post stirred some thoughts too. There is a bit more poking around I'm going to do, but for now I'm leaning more towards doing their 50hour bush course, and doing the remainder on a cheaper 172.

Again, thanks for the collective feedback!

[Gards]

I did exactley what you are thinking of doing. Moved to Kelowna and started flying as much as I could. At first it was only going to be 50 hours but then I just kept going. At the time Air-Hart had a working agreement with PRO-IFR and I worked on my Multi-IFR all at the same time. Just went to Vernon to do the spin for my flight test. I ended up with about 80 hours (with about half PIC). I think the dual from Trevor is worth its weight in gold as he is pretty well known in sask and mb.

I finished the commercial and multi IFR in about 10 months and found a job flying a 206 in Manitoba right off the bat. Maybe I got lucky but I would not have got the job if it werent for the float time ASWELL as going to Air-Hart itself (as Trevor was known by the operator). If you have the money and can go hard at it fulltime I would say do it. Something to also think about is all the movement right now is going to come to an end sooner or later. If you can get some good experience sooner rather then later it may help you out when things take a turn for the worse.

Just a thought from a lowly float driver.....

[cloudrunner]

99% of the time 200 hours is going to get you on the dock - 50 or 150 hours on floats isn't going to make a big difference.

Do a good job and after a season on the dock with a half decent company and another hundred or so hours of float time scraped together you'll be happy that you saved the $10000 and could afford to eat all summer. Then you can go back and do it again next year and maybe get into the seat on a regular basis.

I would have to disagree.

Although working the dock and learning that way is very beneficial, I would have to say that if you can afford it, and you can find a very good instructor/mentor doing your commercial on floats is about the best way to get going in today's industry.

150 hours on floats isn't much, it's true, but when it accounts for 75% of your total hours, it means a lot. It means that you are serious about flying floats, it means you have had to handle a float plane, by yourself for 100+ hours. Without a good attitude and a good work ethic, it's not gonna mean shit how many hours you have, but if I had to get into the industry today and I could afford it (crucial point), I would look seriously at the option.

[Idriveplane]

The topic has two sides, and I agree if you have the cash to do it all on floats then go for it man, more experience on floats the better. However I like many others didn't have that kind of cash I could barely afford the 20 float hrs I had, but it got me a job on the dock and by mid summer i was flying my bag off on 2 types of planes. What im getting at is dont feel obliged by the rule that getting more hrs on floats is what you have to do, if its pushing you financially then dont, do 30, 50 or whatever. Because wi even with 150 hrs on floats I can still see you working the dock for some time. Whatever you decide, all the best to ya.

[bcflyer]

Man things have sure changed. My first job was on a C-180 with 204hrs tt and 25hrs on floats. Somehow I managed to survive. Back to the subject at hand. I would do as many hrs on floats as you can afford. Lots of jobs require 100hrs on floats these days and if you've got it you obviously will have the advantage. I personally don't see why someone HAS to work the dock any more the way the industry is moving. There are flying gigs out there for lowtimers and I'm sure there will be more in the spring when guys realize that their last yrs pilot has moved on to bigger things.

[Idriveplane]

I sure hope the industry changes dramatically, I still hear horror stories of many companies (especially the float ones) promising this and that only to find a dockhand wondering WTF! by the end of the summer with no time at the controls. As for direct entry positions it seems alot of companies still want at least 500 TT, usually more for a 180/85 gig, 206's more. Hence I still feel hes gonna work the dock unless he gets real lucky. Just remember, research the campanies u want to work for, work hard, and don't bitch about things etc. Good things will come

[Random]

You're all dishing out great points and advice, my options are still open as I look into this more, as doing it solely on floats will be very expensive. I'm still leaning more towards the 50hrs floats though, I wouldn't be upset getting a dock job for the first little while, if that's the way the industry is at that time, that's the way it is. I want to be able to get in the door, and if I land a job in a seat, all the better.

[Redneck_pilot86]

Man things have sure changed. My first job was on a C-180 with 204hrs tt and 25hrs on floats. Somehow I managed to survive. Back to the subject at hand. I would do as many hrs on floats as you can afford. Lots of jobs require 100hrs on floats these days and if you've got it you obviously will have the advantage. I personally don't see why someone HAS to work the dock any more the way the industry is moving. There are flying gigs out there for lowtimers and I'm sure there will be more in the spring when guys realize that their last yrs pilot has moved on to bigger things.

Got my first flying job with 236tt and 25 floats, guess I was a little slower on the cpl lol. That was a year ago, so its definately doable.

[CGZMT]

Your lucky. I had to buy into a plane to get 130 hours on floats and still i barely could find a job.

[bd]

I also did exactly what you're thinking of doing; went to AirHart with a private and did my commercial there. Leaving I had 100hrs floats, 50 on the 172 and 50 on the 180. Like the guys above said, try to fly with Trevor, really good guy. I did the road trip thing after that and I was flying that summer.
Lots of guys are doing the 50hr float coarse but I'd recommend building more time than that if you've got the opportunity and foresight.
Then work your tail off when you get the chance at a job, this last summer we had a dockhand who didn't want to come catch the airplane after 5pm!

[Idriveplane]

Got my first flying job with 236tt and 25 floats, guess I was a little slower on the cpl lol. That was a year ago, so its definately doable.

Were you flying that yellow and white 185? I forget the letters on it but its now wintereized in yxl

[kilocharliemike]

maybe this is off topic but can you do your cpl on a multi engine? not that I could afford it...but would it help in the job hunt after or is it like buying multi time? Seems like it could benefit everyone...instructor gets more multi time and you finish with a nice multi/total hr ratio? just wondering...

[Chuck_123go]

You're all dishing out great points and advice, my options are still open as I look into this more, as doing it solely on floats will be very expensive. I'm still leaning more towards the 50hrs floats though, I wouldn't be upset getting a dock job for the first little while, if that's the way the industry is at that time, that's the way it is. I want to be able to get in the door, and if I land a job in a seat, all the better.

For most of the new comers the job on the dock is where you'll learn what the business of bush flying is all about. Driving the airplane is the easiest part of it. What ever you do for your expeirence get as many T/O and landings as possible, is as many different type of situations as you can. Some guy's I've seen come out of 50 hr bush courses did 30 of those cross country flying and had landed on only about 10 different lakes and of course all in good weather. If you want time that counts for something make sure most of it is T/O & landing with loads on, (real ones 1 guy and half tanks and your flight bag is not a load) in the wind, waves, rivers and that ever so important glassy water. Once you do get your first job, this industry is much to small not to work your ass off. What ever you do will follow you for a long time good or bad.

[gapper]

There has been allot of good points made so far. I think getting about 125-150 hours on floats is a great idea. Thats allot more experience than 50 hours. A few more suggestions...1/research who you are going to work for in your first year. I know its hard to say no,but there is allot of operaters that have absolutely no conscience. 2/ if you can.. swamp on a single piston otter. 3/keep your comments short while on the dock,and when you are talking...make sure its questions you are asking. 3/ I drank WAY too much ...don't do that!!

[Pratt]

I'll add my 2 cents worth here in support of the float idea, after getting my ppl I built all of my time towards my cpl on floats. After getting my cpl I got my first job on floats on a C-180 within a month. Total time just over 200 hrs, but as others have said that was quite awhile ago. But I am sure that it would definitely still benefit you in getting that first float job by having over 100 hrs on floats when you start looking.

If you can afford it, go for it.

[Pete]

Does air-hart have someone to do flight tests? how much different are the excercises in a float plane?

[BuckNiner]

Forget all of these hours on floats. You're just spending miney you don't need to spend. I showed up at a northern float operator this spring with 200 hrs on the nose, including a 7 hour float rating. I finished the season on the beaver with just over 500 hours TT. Instead of focusing on the time try focusing on developing things like a solid work ethic, personality, good references, and persistent bugging to get that first job. Do your research, find out who hires low time guys for the dock, make a few calls and then follow up with a trip in March. But KEEP TRYING.

[water wings]

money aside, i have never been asked how many hours i have on wheels..... so, if you wanna floats (and well you should!) the more the merrier. fly safe!