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gapper
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:58 pm 
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Going back to a 185 on 2960 floats from otter and beaver. I got the 185 porposing due to too much back-pressure. I just about filled my pants. A very pitch-sensitive machine to get airborne, I found.


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Rudder Bug
 Post subject: Underpowered ones
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:15 am 
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Hi guys,

I can recall difficult ones to fly and difficult ones to get off the water, when not both.

The Goose would be my challenge if I could be given the opportunity.

I'm a big Goose and other boats lover but never sat in one. Neither a Sea Bee. Came close to ride in a Twin Bee in Haiti a quarter century ago. He had a mag drop so we didn't go.

It comes to mind while writing, I tried a couple Lake and loved them. I wish I could afford one. That'd be my buy for sure. But aren't we supposed to chat about the ones we don't like?

A piston Otter I hated beyond description was C-FAPQ. She stalled in cruise at gross. I knew some other drivers who made the same remark. A plane that hardly overcomes gravity.

I picked that white bitch in Campbell River and delivered it in Goose Bay in a few days. She flew allright, she was light and she looked great.

I got to know her a little better later, working in Labrador with prospetor Vick's cargo shit. I survived but got a couple stories I should write some day. All she wants is to plummet. I ran across other poor performers with MP gauges over-estimating, or bad engines, but that's no rocket science.

Air Saguenay also had a bad Beaver. It could only fly with climb flaps and lots of oomph with a 180 load. It was found years later that the leading edges were put upside down when they rebuilt the wings.

That could be the case for APQ. I've never flown such a bad airplane. Their leading edges look quite symetrical, perhaps. maybe an easy error to do in the workshop.

Anybody else flew that cow?

Another thing that's been puzzling me is why so much difference in two machines of the same type? Could the up-down trust cushions make the so much change? It might in my opinion. What the heck makes them hyper or doggy?

I know a guy who rebuilt a smashed Beaver. The originally fair machine turned into a wild bomb, the best performer I ever flew. MMO. He later told me he wished he knew how he did it. He'd be rich fast.

That magic did not happen with the Campbell River guys rebuilding APQ.

Maybe the plane is bent by now. Who knows?


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Rudder Bug
 Post subject: Another one
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:24 am 
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There comes to mind a 185 when I was a kid. OFW, the biggest machine I was gonna fly. My second 185.

I ate an 11 mile lake to get her airborne with a decent load.

I did not know she only had 260 horses.

Flew a 206 with the same engine too. God...did I earn every feet of height. Every 25 ft was a reward, a freebe!


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xsbank
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 3:52 am 
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I flew APQ in the '90s and it was a typical stoneboat, then.

The single Otter isn't hard to fly, just a lot of work. The only thing it doesn't do well is taxi off the wind. Flying sched. in Tahsis Inlet in the 70's, probably swept 1/2 the docks clear when I turned her loose and the tail swung over the dock, scattering packages and bumping people who didn't listen to my warning and get off the dock fast enough! Got quite good at hopping on the tail of the float after giving her a big shove. Used to do about 40 t/os and landings on the Gold River and Kyoquot scheds. People on, people off, mail off, packages on, Cat parts off, all day long.

Forgot how much work that was and how much fun.

Pay attention when its happening and don't be in too much of a rush to move on.


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Rudder Bug
 Post subject: APQ
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:22 am 
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Hello xsbank,

Maybe she was right by then. I took her all rebuilt and it did not fly like an honnest Otter when loaded.

I flew about 30 of these but APQ was the worst one, by far. She's got a problem, defenitely.


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Rudder Bug
 Post subject: White hair
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:30 am 
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Gees I'm getting to like my gray hair with guys like xsbank, Cat Driver and Driving Rain around! hehe, thanks guys.

You still got hair xs?


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Rudder Bug
 Post subject: New forum
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:36 am 
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Hi old farts,

Could we start a new forum for the old timers? Does anyone wants to do it?

Cat would be the Moderator


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bronson
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:43 am 
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How do you qualify as an old fart? Refuse to have a computer? Think in Imperial units?


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twotter
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:15 am 
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How bout those of us who thought the Air Regs, ANO's, and E+I manual were way too complicated... At least we could hold a paper copy of all of them in one hand.. Look at CAR's now, they've got it so you would have to have a major library to have a paper copy of all that crap..


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bronson
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:50 pm 
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You've read the Aicraft Operating Instructions General cover to cover..


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Siddley Hawker
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:51 pm 
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How about people who can remember 91/98 or 115/145 avgas? :D


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bronson
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:24 pm 
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You can remember putting W/L in the wt. and balance column of the logbook...


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xsbank
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:36 pm 
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Ok, I qualify, and although I still have (most) of my hair, its not the colour I started with.

And I know what W/L means! If it still floats its W/L! Makes more sense than columns of 5090, which really is BS. At least the FMS will calculate the speeds you need so you can toast those stupid charts and manual bugs to set.

In fact, that's the single thing that's ruined flying for a living, all that bloody paperwork. And god help you if you ever get audited and you mess some of it up. Now you have to add to staying alive, keeping a medical and passing that recurrent as a worry, that some bureaucrat will haul you up on the carpet for being a lousy accountant.


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2R
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:33 am 
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I was told that it is quite a challange to land an amphip with the gear down on water .Most guys who try it flip and hurt themselves and the plane, so i guess if you could keep it from flipping you would be daguy :wink: :wink:


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xsbank
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:40 am 
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Just to assure you that I am as ancient as I say, waaaay back, a couple of DOT guys were doing their monthly practice in an amphib. beav (I've a feeling it was F-DOT, actually) and they landed in the river at YVR gear down. There was an almighty splash but the Beav didn't flip. They were both so shattered and embarrassed, they pumped the gear up, took off and landed on 08 with the gear up! No idea how long the runway was closed....

So it is possible, and by your criteria, superior pilots!
(I know this was before your time, TC Guy - they didn't even call it that back then).


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twotter
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:19 am 
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Don't remember that one xs but I do remember a beaver they operated that landed at Alert Bay with the wheels down (not on the runway of course) with the expected results, and the same one landing at Nanaimo with the wheel up (on the runway this time). The only airplane I ever heard of getting away with a wheels down landing in the water was an Otter up at, sheite, I can't remember exactly where but it was up by Echo Bay or somewhere near there. Pilots name started with K if I remember right. You might remember it too..


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Rudder Bug
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:53 am 
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I remember the80/87 and 100/130, the ANO stating we are not allowed to climb aboard an airborne aircraft.

I draw velocity triangles for my x-country flights, 100 miles from home.

I was given Plein Vol and From the Groud Up by their writers.

I got lost in a Beaver with a 90 degree off compass at 50 ft, loaded with iron in heavy snow.

I was assaulted by a drunk Indian in Thompson too.

I once could write and read Poutine and Hamburger in Inuit.

The best of it...16$ an hour to learn to fly a PA-28 140 and go 1st solo after 11 hours


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xsbank
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:01 am 
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It was $16/hr for a 'normal' 172, and $14 for the one with the 6 cyl. engine and the manual flaps. A 150 was $11?? Skyways, 1970ish. Oh yeah and Ed Batchelor was the CP (ex-Sunderland pilot!) gave me my P.L.

I'm going to lie down now.


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adhc2
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:48 am 
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Location: Okanagan
It seems like yesterday Cessna onefilthy 12hr, 2hr extra for an instructor.Only the rich guys could aford the mighty 172 or cherokee. Headphones? why when you could listen to atc through the 3 dollar speaker in the roof. Dreams of a block airspace endorsement.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
Of course I walked to school 5 miles each way uphill 50 below


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bronson
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:10 pm 
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I learned on a Citabria and a Stupid Cub on skiis. Can't remeber the /hr. ,but the whole enchilada was $1400. Solo in 9 hrs. ( no radios to contend with)...


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twotter
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:29 pm 
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Wow, I'm just a kid compared to you old farts!!! :D

When I first got my licence, it was $13/hr for an AA1 $15/hr C-150 and between $17and $23for a 172 depending on which one you wanted.. Paid for it by working in the hangar for the princely sum of $4/hr which was pretty good in those days..


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adhc2
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:18 am 
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hey twotter did u train on the aa1a?, aa1b was my first airplane bought it in the 70,s for 9500 bucks. What a little hotrod, had some bad traits like flat spins, ornamental flaps, lethargic elevator, short range, nosewheel shimmy, etc. Fast though, it could outrun cherokees and 172,s had a vne of 195 and rode turbulence like a big old caddy. You gotta like an airplane that you could trim by leaning backwards or forward. A great trainer cause it wasn,t forgiving like the cessna or piper and it spanked me a few times I can tell u.


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twotter
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:16 pm 
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Didn't train on it but rented it lot's after I got my licence. I can't remember if it was an a or b, it was a yankee clipper GOST. Had a Caspar painted on the side even. Totally agree with you on your comments though. The airplane finally met it's demise one day shortly after take-off in a quick turn back to the runway that would have been fine in a cessna.


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float av8er
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:19 pm 
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I have to nominate the 206. I flew one for a summer with tip tanks (which I only used once) and no turbo. It was difficult to fly because it was very easy to load too far aft and hand spiking was next to impossible. Not to mention the fact that it has a cabin that's very large which leads lodge owners to beleive that it doesn't have a full load when the floats are saying otherwise. It also has very little sense of humor when it comes to taking off with a crosswind. I do however feel that i'm a better pilot because of that machine. It also makes you appreciate the beaver allot more.


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Cat Driver
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:27 pm 
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Not to mention the fact that it has a cabin that's very large which leads lodge owners to beleive that it doesn't have a full load when the floats are saying otherwise.


Are you saying the weight and balance information was in the floats and floats told you when the max weight was arrived at as you loaded it? :wink:


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