KA 200 off runway in Grise Fiord

[fogghorn]

I'll pose these questions: with respect to performance charts, what is a responsible operator to do if the charts say that it can be done? What would be an acceptable percentage to increase the distances by to ensure safety?

Based on some other threads here, I'd say the correct response is 'read the AFM, the AFM is gospel, you cant POSSIBLY know better than the engineers that designed it'. If the charts say go, then you go. Isn't this the same question as 'takeoff with 172 on floats using 20 degrees of flap' ? My oh my how the 'experts' ragged on me on that one, so, if indeed the 'experts' are correct, and the AFM is gospel, then you add exactly 0% to the figures it produces.

You cant have it both ways kiddies, either the AFM is gospel, or, experience with the machine allows one to 'change the rules' based on that experience. I know what _I_ would do, but, then again, i'll select flaps 20 for a 172 on floats too. Quite a few KA drivers sure got thier tits in a tangle over that, so, I'd feel quite happy dispatching them to any strip the AFM says the airplane is capable of operating on. After all, the AFM is gospel, and, it's says the airplane is quite capable of operating out of there....

Oh wait, now the shoe is on the other foot. Are those 'AFM is gospel' types suddenly going to turn into scared little pussies, and start playing the 'safety' card now that it's convenient?

But, thats ok, we all know what co-jo will do. Shut up, sit on hands, serve coffee in the back, like a good little co-jo (sorry, couldn't resist )

On this topic, out of necessity, I have launched in a -6 -100 on floats with 37.5 flap on more than one occasion. T otter drivers have told me - you can't possibly do that! To the contrary, you can. To them I say - try a take off in a 10' swell, with about a 30kt head wind with flap 20 and let me know how it works for ya? There is no provision for a full flap take off in any flight manual, but in certain situations it will get you airborne in a big hurry. If your taking off with 10 miles of ocean ahead of you, who gives a rats arse if your climbing? On the other hand, If a fan quits within about a 10 sec. window during that juncture, you will be accused of rank stupidity, among other unpleasantries.

[ettw]

Are ya freaken kidding me???

Never flown a PC-12 i guess.

Single engine in the Arctic just makes me sick....just waiting for the fire to go out on one of these things....at night......

Engine Failure Checklist

Landing light on
Don't like what I see
Landing light off
Place head between legs
Kiss ass goodbye

ETTW

[Trippin @350]

My 200 days had me doing 2800' strips. But in the wrong season... Fcuk dat! WAT charts can suck my d... for all I care. Lets face it these northern planes have more stories than all of us wish we had.

I used to fly a shitty Brazillian plane. The ICE charts were all computer generated and the G-String wearing bitches said I could do a 12 KT crosswind on Wet Ice. Go to ur CRFI chart and a Canadian who once shit himself says, "dude stay home and drink coffee!"

I have the pleasure of knowing one of the flight crew. As some may have been interested... everyone is OK. Mechanical upset threw this bitch into the weeds.

Well done guys riding this bull to a stop!!!

[co-joe]

I'd go into a runway based on the AFM and a couple thousand hours on type, 421 goldeneagle, but the AFM for the king air I fly has charts for contaminated runways, gravel runways, and a few others I can't think of right now. Plus it climbs at about 1000'/nm.

But hey luckily I fly out of Calgary,and the company I fly for isn't greedy enough to send us into bare minimums short strips to make a buck. We have twin otters for that. And the best part is that we follow sop's and the cars and if a pilot is uncomfortable with a strip, the company doesn't pressure them into doing something they don't feel safe with.

You go setting whatever flap setting makes you happy, and I'll stick to my AFM and the CARs and we'll see who lives longer. Cheers.


PS "...I have the pleasure of knowing one of the flight crew. As some may have been interested... everyone is OK. Mechanical upset threw this bitch into the weeds.

Well done guys riding this bull to a stop!!!"

I'd like to echo this sentiment. Glad to hear all are okay.

[Trippin @350]

yes. yes. may Grey Goose and Corona feed these chaps well 4 many years 2 come.

[bamboo]

Are ya freaken kidding me???

Never flown a PC-12 i guess.

Never flown over the terrain on the way to YGZ I guess??

[3=47]

I think that flying a single engine in that region might not be the best idea, but I do feel that the short field abilities of the PC-12 would make it a better choice than the be20 for getting into and out of grise f.

[bigsky]

.

Mechanical upset threw this bitch into the weeds.

Glad to hear all are okay.

Yes happy to hear all are fine.
Care to expand on the failure?

[Doc]

Did somebody say they'd rather go to YGZ in a PC-12, than a Be20? And they hit the "submit" button? Walks away shaking head.....

[3=47]

what I meant was the actual aproach, landing and take off out of grise would seem to be easier in the pc-12 rather than the be20, due to its better short field capabilities, though I have not been into grise with a 200

47

[bandit1]

PC-12 STOL capabilities vs 2 engine King Air.....

I'd rather go off the end of the runway anytime rather than dead sticking a PC-12 at night up there 100nm from nowhere in -45.

My buddy flies a PC-12 up there on charters and brings full winter survival gear including stove and everything. Maybe minus the 12 gauge for the polar bears. I'd bring it though. Taking enough chances with only one engine.

[Howitzer]

The 200 is a much better idea than a -12, however, don't fool yourself into thinking nothing will happen with a twin. Consider fuel as an example, both engines sip the same gas you just put in your bird in Grise or Frobay. And as far as I know, most of the eastern arctic is a "B.Y.O.Prist"

[bandit1]

I totally agree that shit can go down with 2 engines but if we start getting into all the things that can happen, we'll wear out the keys on our keyboards.

We all accept the inherent risk in our industry and going up there in a twin turbine is a calculated risk- I could accept the consequences of shit hitting the fan and evaluate the rest as highly unlikely to happen.

However, in a PC-12 there seems to be alot more to think about when calculating the risk.

Especially how much you are getting paid to fly the thing. Money can be persuasive.

[yak driver]

37 posts later, 38 if you count this one. Nobobdy has said what happened.... Glad everyone is okay