Instructor V.S PPC

hellholeflyer · Post by **hellholeflyer** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:40 pm

Ok I am getting ready to get flamed on this one, so go easy on me its a honest question. I mean no disrespect at all, nor do I plan on doing this just something that has been bugging me.

So you finish your CPL and decide to get your instructors rating in order to get a "flying job", so that sets you back 6-7 grand right?

How is buying a PPC on a navajo or something like that any different? Your still spending or in some people cases getting someone to spend that money in order to get a flying job. Right?

Again not trying to get people pissed at me because I know I am playing with fire here but its something I have been trying to figure out.

185/310 · Post by **185/310** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:48 pm

Lets say u buy yourself a ho PPC, which is bullshit in the first place. Do you think a 250hr TT pilot is gona get a captain spot on a ho?

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:01 pm

You probably will get flamed...I'll put in some input before that happens.

So great, you've got 250hrs and a -31 PPC. Now what? Hope to get lucky and land a right-seat spot and build your twin time. I'm not aware of many (read any) operators that would let a 250hr 'captain' drive their navajo commercially. Well, that's not completely accurate, there is one instance that I know of where that has happened in a BN-2...but it was a unique situation.

Either insurance mins or company policies prevent this from happening. While you fly right seat, waiting the upgrade, you are still drastically shy of the required PIC time.

You might get lucky and find an operator that will let pilots built time right-seat in piston-twin, then upgrade to PIC on a light single (typically a cessna variant). After your experience, TT and PIC have risen, then left-seat on a light piston-twin. Not common...but not unheard of either.

I have heard of operators up north hiring rampies/office staff to fill right seat turbine spots...then onto the singles for PIC time...

Please keep in mind that it may hurt your rep. and potentially future employment buying a PPC.

What does everyone else think?

hellholeflyer · Post by **hellholeflyer** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:09 pm

Ok another dumb question, if that is true why do people do it?

Again new to all this and just trying to learn.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:38 pm

b/c everyone is looking for an easy-out.

hellholeflyer · Post by **hellholeflyer** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:40 pm

Good Point

pilot to dispatch · Post by **pilot to dispatch** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:54 pm

I didn't read your post, but I'd say the PPC would be a bit cheaper so go for that.

185/310 · Post by **185/310** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:07 pm

wow, lol.

Hoov · Post by **Hoov** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:34 pm

When you get an instructor's rating you arent taking anybodies job. You are getting a rating which allows you to fly, but still pay dues by teaching others to fly. This industry will always need instructors, without them we dont get new rampies, uhh I mean pilots.

Justwannafly · Post by **Justwannafly** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:51 am

& yet I have seen some 270 hour pilots go right seat on a ho & then left seat........I have also seen it (once) on a metro

Airtids · Post by **Airtids** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:52 am

Paying for an instructor rating is not the same thing as paying for a PPC. Paying for an instructor rating is the same thing as paying for a Multi IFR, or a float rating. How many would ever realistically expect an employer to pay for their Multi IFR? A CPL with one or more of these basic ratings are a prerequisite to employability. Once it comes time to train you on a specific a/c type operated by them, that's when an employers responsibility kicks in.

2R · Post by 2R » Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:17 am

i know all the short cuts ,send me a nice one hundred dollar note and a self addresed envelope and i will send you the answers you need

ramp_agent · Post by **ramp_agent** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:39 pm

scabs of avaition!!!!

They just finish their commercial license and they buy a job paying for a instructor rating. Put your time in! You are destroying avaition!

I think I just lit a fire

hellholeflyer · Post by **hellholeflyer** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:44 pm

Thought I better say this before someone finds where I live, I am not going to buy a PPC.

I am just interested in the subject, to be honest I dont have the money for a instructors or PPC and if I did I would probably just blow it on beer anyway

trey kule · Post by **trey kule** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:09 pm

I have to jump in.

When you obtain an instructors rating you are qualified to instruct.

If you go and buy a PPC, you are, in my opinion, in most cases,not qualified to fly the plane with 200 hrs and a PPC. What the intent seems to be, is that by buying a PPC, a sleazy operator who wants to cut costs without interest for safety, will hire me to save money....I think there are enough examples of these operators and the ultimate results. It is really short sighted thinking and takes an attitude of "if I have the PPC I am qualified"

Instead of a PPC, why not get some real training through flight safety or sim com...You will get first class training....but you wont get a PPC.....if you are really interested in being a safe , professional pilot, this seems to me to be the more logical route.

Just as an aside , our company has a policy of not hiring anyone with a bought PPC or anyone who has an intitial PPC that is less than 6 months old....guess why?

cplpilot · Post by **cplpilot** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:40 pm

Hoov wrote:When you get an instructor's rating you arent taking anybodies job. You are getting a rating which allows you to fly, but still pay dues by teaching others to fly. This industry will always need instructors, without them we dont get new rampies, uhh I mean pilots.

I hope one day the industry will need EXPERIENCED instructors

How come in the military you can fly an Hawk or a CF18 with 200 hours but we cannot fly a PA31?

- Schools and instructors are not doing their job
- Military pilots are a "special" peoples born with 3 balls
- This all "supply-demand" and "building hours" thins is BS and is a way to have cheap labor in the industry

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:56 pm

Of course economics has an effect on the pricing of a commodity such as pilots but ... it is worth mentioning that military flight training is much, much more stringent than civilian pilot training, which mostly consists of "go north and be tough".

It is worth thinking about that at the next Canadian airshow you attend, the CF-188 demo pilot likely does not have enough hours in his logbook to get a job flying a 'ho straight and level from point A to point B.

cplpilot · Post by **cplpilot** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:05 pm

Hedley wrote:Of course economics has an effect on the pricing of a commodity such as pilots but ... it is worth mentioning that military flight training is much, much more stringent than civilian pilot training, which mostly consists of "go north and be tough".

It is worth thinking about that at the next Canadian airshow you attend, the CF-188 demo pilot likely does not have enough hours in his logbook to get a job flying a 'ho straight and level from point A to point B.

I agree with you, military training is more though (or school are not good enough).
Don't you think that if we had 50-60 years old former military/commercial instructor, we would:
- don't need to go up north and try to kill ourselves
- get a jet-job sooner (like in Europe)
- Gain experience from our instructors
- Get a better salary when we find a job

Fline@9 · Post by **Fline@9** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:17 am

Multi IFR, at night in IMC and ice, low vis and down to minimums into say, oh... I don't know, how's about a circling NDB DME arc approach.

250 hours and a PPC. In a navajo. Yeah right.... better change your diaper prior to commencing descent.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:09 pm

ROLF!! You said it Fline@9!!

Oh, my sides hurt!!

ramp_agent · Post by **ramp_agent** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:04 pm

When I am shooting a approach to mins, the first thing I am thinking about is how all that time in the training area paid off.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:30 pm

I was amazed how much my NDB approaches improved after I got a GPS

petey · Post by **petey** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:10 pm

I agree with you, military training is more though (or school are not good enough).
Don't you think that if we had 50-60 years old former military/commercial instructor, we would:
- don't need to go up north and try to kill ourselves
- get a jet-job sooner (like in Europe)
- Gain experience from our instructors
- Get a better salary when we find a job

- hopefully
- maybe
- most likely
- no

petey · Post by **petey** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:12 pm

I agree with you, military training is more though (or school are not good enough).
Don't you think that if we had 50-60 years old former military/commercial instructor, we would:
- don't need to go up north and try to kill ourselves
- get a jet-job sooner (like in Europe)
- Gain experience from our instructors
- Get a better salary when we find a job

- hopefully
- maybe
- most likely
- no