Icy Wings

niss · Post by **niss** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:44 am

I went out to see how my little UBC was the other day now that we are into the snowy season again, and I noticed I had a sheet about an inch thick of ice around 2.5 from the wing root.

I am at a little GA strip with no De-ice pad and I am in the tie down. I want to put her insite for the winter but I do not know if its in the cards.

What do you guys do when you see all that ice? Can I just buy some de-ice fluid and hoze her down myself? Use an ice scraper (I dont think its a good idea) or a chisle and a hammer for a little whack?

What are my options?

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:49 am

Are you planning on flying at all this winter?

If not just leave it outside if you can't afford full winter hangerage, then prior to your next flight, if it hasn't melted on its own then just get in a hanger for a few hours.

I wouldn't waste money on de-icing fluid unless you're actually going to go flying that day, it's expensive and it makes a hell of a mess.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:17 am

Most people would just put it in a warm hangar, or wait for a warmer day.

You can put covers on it, and then after it snows/ices, pull the covers off and clean the ice and snow off the covers. However, if the covers are porous, they will freeze to the wing, too.

You can try a broom, and a rope with two people, but be careful that you don't damage the aircraft.

You can try chemicals - some hot radiator fluid in a pump spray bottle will work - but be careful of chemicals and the plexi, and any animals that lick the sweet ethylene glycol will surely die, which will piss off the local bleeding hearts. Also, you must make sure that there is no ice in the tail or ailerons - not just the weight, but for aerodynamic balance.

Really, a warm hangar is the way to go, after it gets covered. Try really hard not to get it covered in ice in the first place - an unheated hangar or covers.

l_reason · Post by **l_reason** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:57 am

I have used a couple jugs of washer fluid to de-ice and a couple jugs of green antifreeze to make sure it did not refreeze. That was just a way to get myself home.

What I would do is check and see if the antifreeze you can get at Canadian tire (red or green) will harm your plane and glass. If its ok get a 2-3 gallon garden pump sprayer. Fill it with de-icing fluid, and spray down your plane before you go. If you can, make your fluid warm or even hot before using it. If you don’t want to use Canadian tire “Prestone” go over to lake simco regional they should be able to sell you some of the aviation stuff.

“Here kitty kitty”

While you are at Canadian tire get your self a couple 120V interior car heaters. Put them under the cowl to heat the oil/cylinders for the hour its going to take to get the ice off the airframe.

bandit1 · Post by **bandit1** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:57 am

paint your plane a dark colour so that the sun melts off the ice.

My plane was dark red and when I was on skis, I never used wing covers, the sun would melt everything off.

Or, fly down to the caribbean and spend the winter there.

You're rich, you own an airplane! (don't you get sick of hearing that!)

niss · Post by **niss** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:01 am

I was rich....but now i own an airplane!

bandit1 · Post by **bandit1** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:33 am

Flying in the winter is a royal pain in the ass.

Good luck!

COCO THE MONKEY · Post by **COCO THE MONKEY** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:47 am

How about a bucket(s) of tepid (not hot) water? There will be some oilcan plunking sounds as the metal expands unevenly. We used this in PA31's for years, even with steaming hot water with no APPARENT damage to the skins. We then followed up by spraying with straight-up type one glycol to keep it from refreezing if we were going flying.

AntiNakedMan · Post by **AntiNakedMan** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:58 am

When I was flying privately I always cleaned all the snow off first and then broke as much of the ice off as possible by hand... if there were some parts that were on really solidly and I didn't want to risk damaging anything I would go buy some methyl hydrate.

I took an empty washer fluid jug (plastic of course) and poked holes in one of the faces of it (only one of the faces) and then lay it flat and fill it up with a bit of methyl hydrate.... this makes an effective 'sprayer' and prevents you from wasting too much methyl hydrate which isn't very cheap.

Methyl hydrate can be purchased from most hardware stores, I think it's a type of camp fuel or something. It doesn't work immediately, you have to let it sit for a bit, and definately having some sunlight helps.

Hope it helps,

Anti

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:12 pm

COCO THE MONKEY wrote:How about a bucket(s) of tepid (not hot) water? There will be some oilcan plunking sounds as the metal expands unevenly. We used this in PA31's for years, even with steaming hot water with no APPARENT damage to the skins. We then followed up by spraying with straight-up type one glycol to keep it from refreezing if we were going flying.

Be careful with this.

Approved use of Water is only permitted when the temperature is 0C and rising. Adding Type I glycol is fine, but if it's -5C outside, that water could get into cracks and control joints and re-freeze again.

Chemtech · Post by **Chemtech** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:46 pm

Engine antifreeze mixed 50/50 with water in a a little pump sprayer works great spray it on then brush the slush off with a soft snow brush. I haven't had any problems with it on the windows, but i havent let it sit either, for added piece of mind clean any residue off the windows with a sponge. If you dont want worry about your windows, isopropal alcohol works just as well, but you dont mix it and its more expensive. And as Bandit one said.....

Flying in the winter is a royal pain in the ass.

Good luck!

V1VRV2 · Post by **V1VRV2** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:57 pm

Anti freeze!!
Holy crap you guys will be getting a visit from the dept of the Environment when they find this out, I'm sure the airport operator where your parked would not approve of this.
Be carefull you not only harm the environment, you endanger wildlife.

I know i'll get flammed for being a tree hugger but honestly, think about what your doing, just to go sightseeing.

If you can't afford approved de-icing fluid, or a hangar leave it parked till spring.

hazatude · Post by **hazatude** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:58 pm

Invest in wing covers.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:11 pm

you not only harm the environment, you endanger wildlife

Yeah, we all want as many birds, beavers, deer, moose etc around the airport as possible.

It would be a real heartbreaker not to have them hit the airplanes, flood the airport with their dams, etc

skywire · Post by **skywire** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:25 pm

Drain out a bit of fuel, splash it on the plane... I know it wont melt this ice by itself, but light it on fire, and it will do the trick... You have insurance right? Might even get you rich again.

Golden Flyer · Post by **Golden Flyer** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:31 pm

Is it bad to clean the windshield with hot water as well?

costermonger · Post by **costermonger** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:36 pm

IMO, a good set of covers is your best bet. Isopropanol's good for frost and it's safe on windows, but it really won't do a thing for actual ice.

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:42 pm

Fire the boots

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:22 pm

You need to pull out your inner macgyver...A couple of jugs of methyl hydrate, a fertilizer sprayer, and a battery blanket and some duct tape. Fully functioning de-ice setup for under 50 bucks.

Not for commercial use, but if it's your own plane...why not?

Fline@9 · Post by **Fline@9** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:37 pm

This might sound crazy but it works. Rubber mallet or even your fist. No chemicals no mess, really quick and very efficient. Get a dollar store rubber mallet and 'VERY LIGHTLY TAP ALL OVER THE WING AND CRITICAL SURFACES" Yes you read that right, and yes I know what you're thinking (probably the same thing I was thinking when I saw an old guy doing this to his cherokee eons ago until I asked).

Dont be foolish here, use some common sense. I was a little shocked how quickly this worked the first time I tried it. It will only work on a fairly good accumulation of ice (1/4 inch or more I'd say) and won't do a thing if there is snow only. If you bang on the skin's surface overzealously you "will" dimple the metal and will definitely be muttering some choice words. If you are gentle and tap every square foot or so you'll be surprised how good this actually works. Fiberglass is even easier and will obviously not dimple but cowls and plastic parts (especially the windshield) stay away from because the paint/plastic will crack. These surfaces are generally not part of the "critical surfaces" so I never used to even bother. Windshield I did the old fashioned way.

The impact of the mallet/fist will vibrate and shatter off large portions of the ice. Just watch that any of the ice shed doesn't slide down into any crevices (ailerons, flaps, etc). It used to take me about 6 minutes to do a seminole years ago. I dont know if I'd want to bother with anything bigger then that though. The residual ice on areas where the ice was really sticky (leading edges for example, props, etc) and where there was no flex in the surface I scraped off the old fashioned way.

It's cheap and it works, just be smart about your use of force. The worst thing I ever had happen was the mallet left small rubber scuff marks here and there which came off when the plane was washed. HTH.

Golden Flyer · Post by **Golden Flyer** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:35 pm

Niss Check Your PMs...

V1VRV2 · Post by **V1VRV2** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:47 am

Hedley

When was the last time your airport was flooded by a beaver Dam, a moose or deer ran in front of you on T/O and you had a bird strike?

Your probably one of those that dump their motor oil down the street drain too!

Go have a drink of prestone, and tell me how you fell in the morning.

Idriveplane · Post by **Idriveplane** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:24 am

You can screw around with homemade deice fluids etc. Just invest in wing covers they cost around 300 or so fo a small plane like that and it will save you tonnes of frustration. Treat them nice and you'll be set. thats all we use in the bush

bandit1 · Post by **bandit1** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:52 am

There's no secret magic trick that very few people know about.

For you guys out there with rag & tube planes flying in the winter, try and use the "tapping" method as least as possible.

I tried it once and while the ice did detach from the wings, so did some of the paint with it.

Be patient and be gentle.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:12 am

When was the last time your airport was flooded by a beaver Dam

Actually, right now we have a severe problem with flooding at the east end of the airport, caused by beaver dams.

a moose or deer ran in front of you on T/O and you had a bird strike?

You think bird strikes (and wildlife) at airports aren't a problem? Are you serious?

http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/Aerod ... uction.htm

In 2000, there were 772 reported strikes to Canadian aircraft ... incurred huge costs.

Go to Starbucks and have some more chocolate-covered coffee beans. If Canada is ever given an enema, yyz is surely where the tube should be stuck in

Icy Wings

Icy Wings

Ice