come to think of it....... I think I met her in a bar in the Sault.....Apollo wrote:
Best Bear gun?
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Northern Skies
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tazin river
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Northern Skies
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since this topic will be around forever, I guess I'll make a serious post.
Right now I use a 12ga. chinese copy of a rem 870. It cost me $300. The finish and stock isn't as nice, but underneath it's the same gun (probably comes from the same factory). It has a rifled barrel with sights and a smoothbore with choke tubes. Both have 3" chambers. So if I want a bear gun to haul around the bush, I can put the smoothbore on it and carry rifled slugs and buckshot. If I want a bird gun, I throw a tighter choke tube in. During deer season, just throw the rifled barrel on and load up on sabots for a decent brush gun. It's a pretty versatile combo with good stopping power and the price is certainly right.
For it's size, portability, and handling, I've been looking at the winchester 94 trapper. It's a six-shot lever action with a 16" barrel, in .30-30. It would do away with having to haul that shotgun (and heavy ammo) around when I don't want to.
So that's all great for northern Ontario, but if I ever find myself in polar bear territory (or some spots on the west coast), I'm going to want something that is simple, tough, reliable, and does serious business. The shotgun does the job, but being adequately armed isn't as nice as something that will put a polar bear on its ass. I shoot left, so that pretty much narrows it down to a Remington 700KS Safari. I'd pick either the .375 H&H or .458 win. mag. because of their widespread availability. A 500 grain solid from that will keep a decent trajectory and hit with more than two tons of energy. It will punch through tough skin, thick layers of fat, and loads of solid bone with tons of energy to spare. After all, those cartridges were designed for elephants. The rifle weighs 9 pounds and doesn't have any fancy features. It's expensive at around $1600US, but would probably last forever. The ammo isn't cheap at around $5 a round, but that's the same price as a 12ga. sabot anyway. This is not something to take to the range on a sunday afternoon, unless you want an empty wallet and a broken body from the 70 ft-lbs of recoil.
So there you have it. That's my two cents.
Right now I use a 12ga. chinese copy of a rem 870. It cost me $300. The finish and stock isn't as nice, but underneath it's the same gun (probably comes from the same factory). It has a rifled barrel with sights and a smoothbore with choke tubes. Both have 3" chambers. So if I want a bear gun to haul around the bush, I can put the smoothbore on it and carry rifled slugs and buckshot. If I want a bird gun, I throw a tighter choke tube in. During deer season, just throw the rifled barrel on and load up on sabots for a decent brush gun. It's a pretty versatile combo with good stopping power and the price is certainly right.
For it's size, portability, and handling, I've been looking at the winchester 94 trapper. It's a six-shot lever action with a 16" barrel, in .30-30. It would do away with having to haul that shotgun (and heavy ammo) around when I don't want to.
So that's all great for northern Ontario, but if I ever find myself in polar bear territory (or some spots on the west coast), I'm going to want something that is simple, tough, reliable, and does serious business. The shotgun does the job, but being adequately armed isn't as nice as something that will put a polar bear on its ass. I shoot left, so that pretty much narrows it down to a Remington 700KS Safari. I'd pick either the .375 H&H or .458 win. mag. because of their widespread availability. A 500 grain solid from that will keep a decent trajectory and hit with more than two tons of energy. It will punch through tough skin, thick layers of fat, and loads of solid bone with tons of energy to spare. After all, those cartridges were designed for elephants. The rifle weighs 9 pounds and doesn't have any fancy features. It's expensive at around $1600US, but would probably last forever. The ammo isn't cheap at around $5 a round, but that's the same price as a 12ga. sabot anyway. This is not something to take to the range on a sunday afternoon, unless you want an empty wallet and a broken body from the 70 ft-lbs of recoil.
So there you have it. That's my two cents.
Winchester supreme is a 385gr/1900 fps the super X is one oz at 1550 fps. either would be devastatingly effective. As for the 45/70 read vince lupo's account of the big 5 in africa, if it'll kill a cape buffalo it'll work on a bear. earlier in the thread, I mentioned using a pump w/a folding stock to reduce length for a/c stowage.
Garrett Cartridges is a family-run business specializing in custom-quality 44 Magnum and 45-70 ammunition for those in pursuit of large and dangerous game. We have chosen to offer ammo only in these two calibers, quite simply because these are our two favorite calibers. This reflects a three-decade love affair with the 44 Magnum and 45-70, and a compelling interest in producing the best ammo possible regardless of production inefficiencies or costs. We hand-cast all of our bullets from custom Hensley & Gibbs blocks possessing cavities of our own design, using a special high-performance alloy with exceptional impact integrity. We are the only builders in the industry to take such an approach. As a consequence, our production is limited and the costs of our offerings are considerable. However it is our view that when a hunter is in pursuit of a trophy or determined to defend himself from dangerous game, only the finest ammo should be deployed. Given the substantial costs common to hunting trips, and the obvious value of human life, we believe that any attempt to economize at such critical times is simply ill advised. Consequently we leave it to others to build budget ammo.
> Our ammunition is used by experienced hunters to take all the major species hunted on the planet. It is also widely used by professional hunters and government agencies, such as the National Marine Fisheries Service, the U.S. Geological Survey, and the Grizzly Bear Team of the State of Wyoming, for the protection of field personnel.
Our 310-grain 44 Magnum Hammerhead Ammo is the most powerful SAAMI pressure-compliant ammo available and provides penetration comparable to that achieved with the 375 Holland & Holland using solid bullets. Our 330-grain Hammerhead Ammo is the most powerful 44 Magnum ammo in existence, and rivals the 454 Casull for impact-effect while producing far less chamber pressure.
Our 45-70 Hammerhead Ammo has been used to take all the heaviest game in North America and Africa, including the African Big Six. It also provides greater penetration, in the case of our 540-grain Hammerhead Ammo and 500-grain Exiter Ammo, than is achieved using roundnose solids from the more powerful 458 Magnums. Our 420-grain Hammerhead Ammo provides brutal performance on all thin-skinned game up to about 1400 pounds, out to about 220-yds.
We hope you will take the time to peruse our website as it contains a wealth of explanatory commentary from us as well as many compelling reports from various industry notables and experienced hunters. Our products do exactly what we say they do, and we willingly put our reputations on the line with regards to their performance. Our ammunition quite simply defines us, and redefines our two favorite calibers.
Randy M. Garrett, President
> Our ammunition is used by experienced hunters to take all the major species hunted on the planet. It is also widely used by professional hunters and government agencies, such as the National Marine Fisheries Service, the U.S. Geological Survey, and the Grizzly Bear Team of the State of Wyoming, for the protection of field personnel.
Our 310-grain 44 Magnum Hammerhead Ammo is the most powerful SAAMI pressure-compliant ammo available and provides penetration comparable to that achieved with the 375 Holland & Holland using solid bullets. Our 330-grain Hammerhead Ammo is the most powerful 44 Magnum ammo in existence, and rivals the 454 Casull for impact-effect while producing far less chamber pressure.
Our 45-70 Hammerhead Ammo has been used to take all the heaviest game in North America and Africa, including the African Big Six. It also provides greater penetration, in the case of our 540-grain Hammerhead Ammo and 500-grain Exiter Ammo, than is achieved using roundnose solids from the more powerful 458 Magnums. Our 420-grain Hammerhead Ammo provides brutal performance on all thin-skinned game up to about 1400 pounds, out to about 220-yds.
We hope you will take the time to peruse our website as it contains a wealth of explanatory commentary from us as well as many compelling reports from various industry notables and experienced hunters. Our products do exactly what we say they do, and we willingly put our reputations on the line with regards to their performance. Our ammunition quite simply defines us, and redefines our two favorite calibers.
Randy M. Garrett, President
Athabascan Quote: "Know one knows the ways of the wind or the Caribou".
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RatherBeFlying
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The likelihood of getting killed or chewed up by a bear or cougar is a whole bunch lower than that of stopping a stray slug in Toronto. The statistical hazard fades further as we add in the chances of getting hit by a drunk driver, or soccer mom or corporate warrior driving SUV while on a cell phone -- in fact a near daily hazard.
Oh yes, last I heard, pilots kill themselves with far greater frequency than bears manage.
On a more personal note, I've had a few face to face encounters with blacks and grizzlies. The wilderness bear generally prefers to avoid trouble. Bears used to people are a whole different story. Keep your camps clean so you don't get one of those hanging about.
The rangers use flash-bangs to scare off bears. A common use is to drive a bear away from a carcass that is too close to a trail for people to walk by without the bear getting concerned. Less skill required, less money and less weight compared to dragging about some of the fine ordinance discussed previously.
Oh yes, last I heard, pilots kill themselves with far greater frequency than bears manage.
On a more personal note, I've had a few face to face encounters with blacks and grizzlies. The wilderness bear generally prefers to avoid trouble. Bears used to people are a whole different story. Keep your camps clean so you don't get one of those hanging about.
The rangers use flash-bangs to scare off bears. A common use is to drive a bear away from a carcass that is too close to a trail for people to walk by without the bear getting concerned. Less skill required, less money and less weight compared to dragging about some of the fine ordinance discussed previously.
Can"t be trusted. See one. Shoot one!-
lilfssister
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http://timlambert.org/2001/07/levittpoolsvsguns/Doc wrote:There should be.....it'd save more little lives than safe gun storage ever will! But it wont cause the media frenzzy that a good old "Little Billy guns down his best friend with daddy's hunting rifle!" That's NEWS! Chocking to death on improperly stored, scented tampons is not!
What’s more dangerous: a swimming pool or a gun? When it comes to children, there is no comparison: a swimming pool is 100 times more deadly.
In 1997 alone (the last year for which data are available), 742 children under the age of 10 drowned in the United States last year alone. Approximately 550 of those drownings — about 75 percent of the total — occurred in residential swimming pools. According to the most recent statistics, there are about six million residential pools, meaning that one young child drowns annually for every 11,000 pools.
About 175 children under the age of 10 died in 1998 as a result of guns. About two-thirds of those deaths were homicides. There are an estimated 200 million guns in the United States. Doing the math, there is roughly one child killed by guns for every one million guns.
Thus, on average, if you both own a gun and have a swimming pool in the backyard, the swimming pool is about 100 times more likely to kill a child than the gun is.
This is the thread that just won't die....
I've done some more reading and research since my last serious post to this thread. A 45-70 lever action (a Marlin 1895 in stainless for my $$) firing the Garret 540 grain would stop just about anything. Pair that up with a set of the XS sights "ghost ring" sights and you're set. You even have the option of a weaver or picatinny rail as part of the mix so that you can switch to a scope with a lighter (as if 350 grains was actually light), faster round to get a flatter trajectory for longer ranged work on stuff like deer.
Until you posted about them, onceacop, I didn't know about the Garret cartridges...some very interesting reading on their site. Not exactly a slick site, but I'd be confident spending my money on their ammo.
I've done some more reading and research since my last serious post to this thread. A 45-70 lever action (a Marlin 1895 in stainless for my $$) firing the Garret 540 grain would stop just about anything. Pair that up with a set of the XS sights "ghost ring" sights and you're set. You even have the option of a weaver or picatinny rail as part of the mix so that you can switch to a scope with a lighter (as if 350 grains was actually light), faster round to get a flatter trajectory for longer ranged work on stuff like deer.
Until you posted about them, onceacop, I didn't know about the Garret cartridges...some very interesting reading on their site. Not exactly a slick site, but I'd be confident spending my money on their ammo.
Please don't tell my mother that I work in the Oilpatch...she still thinks that I'm the piano player at a whorehouse.
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North of You
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Its like an American Express card that shoots slugs, I don't leave home without it.
The Remmy factory folder and a 15 3/4" barrel is just over 660mm making this about as short/compact as one can go and remain non-restricted...
Last edited by Jim N on Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bump. The bear gun thread should never die.
I'd probably look for the stainless model if possible. If you're going to carry it everywhere, low maintenance is good.
Low maintenance is also good when it comes to girlfriends (or boyfriends, if that's what turns yer crank)
I'd probably look for the stainless model if possible. If you're going to carry it everywhere, low maintenance is good.
Low maintenance is also good when it comes to girlfriends (or boyfriends, if that's what turns yer crank)
Please don't tell my mother that I work in the Oilpatch...she still thinks that I'm the piano player at a whorehouse.
My $0.02 CDN on loaded weapons.
If it's in my hands, or in a secure holster which completely protects the trigger guard, I don't have a problem with having a round chambered with either the safety engaged or the hammer down (on a double action revolver that has a transfer bar type safety feature).
If it's in a pack, or on a sling, or tucked into a waistband, or in a gun rack, I would not have a round in the chamber. The gun may well be loaded with rounds in the internal magazine, but having a round chambered when you do not have control over what happens to the trigger does not strike me as a good idea.
If it's in my hands, or in a secure holster which completely protects the trigger guard, I don't have a problem with having a round chambered with either the safety engaged or the hammer down (on a double action revolver that has a transfer bar type safety feature).
If it's in a pack, or on a sling, or tucked into a waistband, or in a gun rack, I would not have a round in the chamber. The gun may well be loaded with rounds in the internal magazine, but having a round chambered when you do not have control over what happens to the trigger does not strike me as a good idea.
Please don't tell my mother that I work in the Oilpatch...she still thinks that I'm the piano player at a whorehouse.
For me, "safe carry" involves.
Single action "six-shooter" revolver, five rounds, with the hammer on an empty chamber.
Double action "modern" revolver, all six can be loaded...but I still go with five, and the hammer on an empty.
Lever gun (my fav...BTW) empty chamber.
Pump guy...same.
Bolt action....n/a...too slow.
Auto loader, pistol or long gun, empty chamber.
Single action "six-shooter" revolver, five rounds, with the hammer on an empty chamber.
Double action "modern" revolver, all six can be loaded...but I still go with five, and the hammer on an empty.
Lever gun (my fav...BTW) empty chamber.
Pump guy...same.
Bolt action....n/a...too slow.
Auto loader, pistol or long gun, empty chamber.
We're saying pretty much the same thing, Doc.
I guess the difference for me is that the years spent wearing green and humping around selective-fire rifles with a round in the chamber convinced me that a trained and alert mind is the best way to ensure safety when the weapon is in your hands.
That said, if somebody isn't comfortable with a round in the chamber, then there shouldn't be a round in the chamber.
I guess the difference for me is that the years spent wearing green and humping around selective-fire rifles with a round in the chamber convinced me that a trained and alert mind is the best way to ensure safety when the weapon is in your hands.
That said, if somebody isn't comfortable with a round in the chamber, then there shouldn't be a round in the chamber.
Please don't tell my mother that I work in the Oilpatch...she still thinks that I'm the piano player at a whorehouse.
