Surprise the new leader of the Liberals is a Quebecer

[Dust Devil]

Federal Liberals Willing to Make CWB an Election Issue
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Written by Neil Billinger
Wednesday, 06 December 2006

Liberal Leader Stephane Dion says he will reinstate the Canadian Wheat Board's single desk selling system as prime minister if the Conservative government dismantles it.

Dion vows to restore CWB monopoly

By Paul Samyn
OTTAWA -- Newly elected LIberal leader Stéphane Dion has promised to resurrect the Canadian Wheat Board if the Tories succeed with their plan that he says will kill the Winnipeg-based agency.

In what is Dion’s first campaign promise, he said he will ensure that Prairie farmers determine the future of the CWB.

"If I am prime minister, I will reinstate the board and return it to the status quo," said Dion.

Dion's pledge came after a meeting with CWB president Adrian Measner, who is facing a threat he will be fired unless he backs the Tory promise to end the board's marketing monopoly for wheat and barley.

I can play your silly game too. Once again I don't get your point. Are you saying because the conservatives took steps to help farmers during the depresion that that economic policy is valid in a 2006 economy? you'll have to do better than that pal.

[costermonger]

My point is that "exploiting the west" is only an issue when it can be pinned on the Liberals, even if they haven't actually done anything except state a position. Take, for instance, a quote from your own post..

"In what is Dion’s first campaign promise, he said he will ensure that Prairie farmers determine the future of the CWB."

That bastard! For what it's worth, toss the OWPMB into the CWB if it makes people feel better, but what percentage of the wheat grown in Canada is coming out of the three provinces in the CWB right now? I don't have the exact numbers handy right this second, but I'm certain that including production numbers from the rest of the country won't take away the ability to bitch and moan about western exploitation, should it become politically expedient.

I'll give the Conservatives credit here, they're getting set up nicely to make this into an election issue.. They can sit on something for a year, not really accomplishing anything, and yet put the blame on the Liberals for advocating the status quo. If the election was called tomorrow, you know as well as anyone that this is exactly how it would pan out. It's almost impressive, the ability to do nothing and then blame the other guy for it.

[Dust Devil]

My point is that "exploiting the west" is only an issue when it can be pinned on the Liberals, even if they haven't actually done anything except state a position. Take, for instance, a quote from your own post..

"In what is Dion’s first campaign promise, he said he will ensure that Prairie farmers determine the future of the CWB."

That bastard! For what it's worth, toss the OWPMB into the CWB if it makes people feel better, but what percentage of the wheat grown in Canada is coming out of the three provinces in the CWB right now? I don't have the exact numbers handy right this second, but I'm certain that including production numbers from the rest of the country won't take away the ability to bitch and moan about western exploitation, should it become politically expedient.

I'll give the Conservatives credit here, they're getting set up nicely to make this into an election issue.. They can sit on something for a year, not really accomplishing anything, and yet put the blame on the Liberals for advocating the status quo. If the election was called tomorrow, you know as well as anyone that this is exactly how it would pan out. It's almost impressive, the ability to do nothing and then blame the other guy for it.

And my point is the Liberals have no idea what Western Canadians want. From gun control to CWB to the National Energy Program the Liberals have continually ignored the wishes of Western Canada. Dion and Layton both feel they are the voice of Farmers and Western Canadians. Compare the seat numbers. Dion and Laytons claims are laughable.

[Stoptheworld]

"In what is Dion’s first campaign promise, he said he will ensure that Prairie farmers determine the future of the CWB."

What a novel idea, let the farmers decide!

But wait, the state knows what is best and you shouldn't have to worry about these things, you let the Dear Leader in Ottawa worry about those things for you. (Especially so Canada Steamship Lines continues to carry that grain)

At the very least, maybe the farmers will decide that if they do decide to sell their wheat or barley to someone else, they won't be handcuffed and shackled when they are brought into court.

[Icebound]

And my point is the Liberals have no idea what Western Canadians want.

You may have to temper that a bit.

They may have no idea what Western Canadian provincial governments want, but I am not so sure about Western Canadian people. I admit that I am a little out of touch, but the CWB worked very well for those farmers who farmed a variety of grains on 640 acres or less. Fairly recent polls (2005) still had wheat farmers favoring the CWB over a fully open market, by about 2 to 1.

Reading all the stuff that has been going on about the CWB, it would seem that the one of the main driving forces to repeal it, is because that's what the USA wants.

Which always makes me suspicious.


...

[Dust Devil]

it would seem that the one of the main driving forces to repeal it, is because that's what the USA wants.



...

you honestly think that? How about how unethical it is to throw someone in jail for marketing their product. The CWB can exist all it wants but the fundemental problem is why should a producer be forced too sell to them. If the CWB is so good at it's job then there is no reason it won't survive.

If a group of wheat producers wants to open a pasta plant why can they not use their own wheat. How is it ethical to have to sell the wheat to the "people" then have to buy it back to use in your own pasta plant.

Why not try a new system? If it doesn't work switch back to the way things were. People are to afraid of change.

Let the farmers who want to pool their product do it and the ones who don't let them sell to who ever they want.

[CD]

Here's today's story on the CWB and how two groups of farmers view the issue. Looks like Ottawa doesn't know what western farmers want (what else is new...) provided, of course, that you consider Manitoba "the west".

################

Prairie farmers rally in Winnipeg in support of Canadian Wheat Board

14 Dec, 3:31 PM

WINNIPEG (CP) - Hundreds of Prairie farmers gathered in Winnipeg on Thursday to protest against Ottawa's plan to end the Canadian Wheat Board's grain marketing monopoly.

Holding placards that read "Hands Off Our Wheat Board" and "Multinationals No - Single Desk CWB Yes," farmers such as Marv Gerbrant said they have depended on the board for years. "It is at least one thing that is stable in a profession that has a lot of instability to it," said Gerbrant, 54, who farms near Morris, Man.

He added he appreciates having the wheat board do his marketing for him.

Farmers want the federal Conservative government to back away from sweeping changes to the board, and they're angry with federal Agriculture Minister . Strahl.

Stewart Wells, president of the National Farmers Union, compared the ongoing fight to "a hostile takeover."

He said the federal government's recent decisions to change the voters list for director elections, the threat to fire board president Adrian Measner after midnight tonight and a refusal to have binding plebiscites all point to unfair politics.

"Watching this unfold over the last two or three months has really made me afraid for the country, afraid for democracy."

The Tories want to end the board's monopoly on wheat and barley sales - a move critics say would effectively kill the farmer-run organization.

Some farmers have argued that selling grain through a single government agency no longer works in an era of globalization.

A handful of farmers in the crowd supported the government's plans but wanted to see what their opponents had to say.

Rolf Penner farms near Morris, Man., and is the agricultural policy fellow for the Frontier Centre for Public Policy.

He said there would still be a role for the wheat board in the grain market even without a monopoly.

He said the issue is about fundamental civil liberties.

"Is it right for one group of farmers to be able to tell another group of farmers how to run their business and how to market their grain? I think the answer is No."

Several opposition MP's attended the rally, including Liberal agriculture critic Wayne Easter.

Bill Toews of the group Friends of the Wheat Board said they hope the demonstration will make it clear to the public how strongly farmers support the organization.

"Sometimes you have to let farmers vent," said Toews, who farms just west of Winnipeg.

"We just felt we had to send a clear message and show the public at large that Mr. Strahl is off base."

[Icebound]

it would seem that the one of the main driving forces to repeal it, is because that's what the USA wants.



...

you honestly think that?

It is no secret that the USA hates the Wheat Board because it believes it to be a subsidization, which of course, it is not.

And it also hates it because it accomplishes what it (the USA) has been unable to do... Canadian Farmers receives less than half as much subsidy as do American farmers (as a percentage of income), and programs such as the CWB help accomplish that.

Those farmers who think that they dislike it, will be the first ones to run to Ottawa for a handout the first year they get a bad run of prices in the markets which they do find for themselves.

That would be YOUR tax dollars.


...

[Dust Devil]

it would seem that the one of the main driving forces to repeal it, is because that's what the USA wants.



...

you honestly think that?

It is no secret that the USA hates the Wheat Board because it believes it to be a subsidization, which of course, it is not.

And it also hates it because it accomplishes what it (the USA) has been unable to do... Canadian Farmers receives less than half as much subsidy as do American farmers (as a percentage of income), and programs such as the CWB help accomplish that.

Those farmers who think that they dislike it, will be the first ones to run to Ottawa for a handout the first year they get a bad run of prices in the markets which they do find for themselves.

That would be YOUR tax dollars.


...

That was an interesting bit of fluff. but what I was wondering was do you honestly think that the Harper government wants to disband the wheat board because that's what the USA wants? Perhaps your right and the US does want the wheat board gone that is no reason to oppose it. How about all the ethonol plants that are being built in the west. Why can the farmers not market their grain directly to the ethonol plants, or the pasta plants or anyone else that wants to buy it. As a farmer said in the story posted above, it's an issue about ethics and civil liberties and another way that Ontario east want's to see the western economy crippled.

Let me ask this if the CWB is such a good idea then maybe we should lobby to have all farmers across the country included in it.

Just because it comes from the Harper government doesn't mean you have to think it's a bad idea.

I don't support everything Harper does. I think the way he is handling equalization and gun control could cost him my vote next year. Although Jim Flaherty could pull my vote back if he follows through with their tax policy.

[Icebound]

That was an interesting bit of fluff. but what I was wondering was do you honestly think that the Harper government wants to disband the wheat board because that's what the USA wants?

Since dismantling the CWB will alienate a majority of prairie farmers, as indicated by the recent board elections and the Winnipeg protests, that is the only possible reason that makes sense.

...

How about all the ethonol plants that are being built in the west. Why can the farmers not market their grain directly to the ethonol plants, or the pasta plants or anyone else that wants to buy it. As a farmer said in the story posted above, it's an issue about ethics and civil liberties...

It is also an issue about the 300 acre farmer being able to get a piece of the ethanol, pasta, and export markets at the same price and under the same conditions as the 3,000 acre farmer.... rather than being squeezed out of contracts because he cannot supply sufficient quantity on his own.

As I said earlier, that same farmer citing ethics and civil liberties will also be the first to run to Ottawa for a handout when the open market fails him. That's why the CWB was created in the first place.

....

... and another way that Ontario east want's to see the western economy crippled.

I have no idea how to make such a connection.

Let me ask this if the CWB is such a good idea then maybe we should lobby to have all farmers across the country included in it.

Experts tell me that grain-production and market conditions in Ontario are considerably different that the prairies. It is true that the Ontario Wheat Board has moved away from the single-seat system, but the farmers were not screaming, the way they are on the prairies about the CWB proposal.

Just because it comes from the Harper government doesn't mean you have to think it's a bad idea.

I think it is a bad idea because the majority of prairie farmers think it is a bad idea.

Dismantling the CWB could be a good idea if it proves corrupt or inefficient, but recent audits showed neither.


...

[Dust Devil]

That was an interesting bit of fluff. but what I was wondering was do you honestly think that the Harper government wants to disband the wheat board because that's what the USA wants?

Since dismantling the CWB will alienate a majority of prairie farmers, as indicated by the recent board elections and the Winnipeg protests, that is the only possible reason that makes sense.

...

How about all the ethonol plants that are being built in the west. Why can the farmers not market their grain directly to the ethonol plants, or the pasta plants or anyone else that wants to buy it. As a farmer said in the story posted above, it's an issue about ethics and civil liberties...

It is also an issue about the 300 acre farmer being able to get a piece of the ethanol, pasta, and export markets at the same price and under the same conditions as the 3,000 acre farmer.... rather than being squeezed out of contracts because he cannot supply sufficient quantity on his own.

As I said earlier, that same farmer citing ethics and civil liberties will also be the first to run to Ottawa for a handout when the open market fails him. That's why the CWB was created in the first place.

....

... and another way that Ontario east want's to see the western economy crippled.

I have no idea how to make such a connection.

Let me ask this if the CWB is such a good idea then maybe we should lobby to have all farmers across the country included in it.

Experts tell me that grain-production and market conditions in Ontario are considerably different that the prairies. It is true that the Ontario Wheat Board has moved away from the single-seat system, but the farmers were not screaming, the way they are on the prairies about the CWB proposal.

Just because it comes from the Harper government doesn't mean you have to think it's a bad idea.

I think it is a bad idea because the majority of prairie farmers think it is a bad idea.

Dismantling the CWB could be a good idea if it proves corrupt or inefficient, but recent audits showed neither.


...

The Harper government has continually said they will hold a peblicite and the results will dictate the action of the government. If the Majority want to keep the wheat board then explain why the Conservatives hold by a landslide the majority of the seats in the west? This Wheat Board stuff is not new. It was campaigned on now they are fuffilling that promise like many others they have made. If the Western Canadian farmers didn't want this delt with they would have voted for a different party.

Surprise surprise that today Dion is promising to attack the oil industry in Western Canada. Once again trying to cut us off at the knees. Central Canada is whining because we don't want to share our natural resource revenue which consitutionally belongs to the provences so they are going after the companies directly. What horse shit. I smell the NEP all over again.

[Dust Devil]

Experts tell me that grain-production and market conditions in Ontario are considerably different that the prairies.

What experts do you know?

[Icebound]

Experts tell me that grain-production and market conditions in Ontario are considerably different that the prairies.

What experts do you know?

That opinion came from the marketing manager of the Ontario Wheat Marketing Board, and was quoted in the Western Producer, suggesting that the OWMB was not a good model for the CWB.

No, I don't personally know him or her.

...

[Icebound]

The Harper government has continually said they will hold a peblicite and the results will dictate the action of the government. If the Majority want to keep the wheat board then explain why the Conservatives hold by a landslide the majority of the seats in the west? This Wheat Board stuff is not new. It was campaigned on now they are fuffilling that promise like many others they have made. If the Western Canadian farmers didn't want this delt with they would have voted for a different party.

Farmers are a very small percentage of the vote, so I don't know how well the overall vote reflects the sentiment of small farmers.

I lived out there for a lot of years, and the Provincial governments of all stripes do a good job of convincing themselves and their populace that Ottawa is evil, so maybe that's partly the reason.

I doubt that any single issue determined their vote.

Surprise surprise that today Dion is promising to attack the oil industry in Western Canada. Once again trying to cut us off at the knees. Central Canada is whining because we don't want to share our natural resource revenue which consitutionally belongs to the provences so they are going after the companies directly. What horse shit. I smell the NEP all over again.

When the NOP was in effect previously, Alberta had no problem with a controlled market that guaranteed their market protection from cheap imported oil. But after 1973, when the shoe was on the other foot, suddenly controlled markets were a problem.?.?

Even Conservative Peter Lougheed...
http://www.irpp.org/po/archive/sep06/lougheed.pdf
....agrees that the industry is an environmental mess, and
subsidizing such a profitable industry to the tune of 1.4 billion is a bit much.

[And by the way, constitutionally the Federal government has the authority to override provincial jurisdiction, although they have not used that power recently.]


....

[Dust Devil]

Farmers are a very small percentage of the vote, so I don't know how well the overall vote reflects the sentiment of small farmers.

That's a lame argument. Sure farmers are a small percentage of the vote but the large majority in this part of the country is still connected to farming thru family and friends.

Now excuse me while I go outside and breath my clean Saskatchewan air.

[CD]

Manitoba farmers voice strong support for Canadian Wheat Board monopoly

16 Jan, 7:44 PM

WINNIPEG (CP) - Manitoba farmers have voiced clear support for the Canadian Wheat Board's monopoly on wheat and barley sales in a symbolic plebiscite dismissed by the federal agriculture minister as a waste of money.

About 70 per cent of farmers who cast ballots in the Manitoba government's vote said they want to keep the status quo on wheat. The support for the barley monopoly was 62 per cent.

Provincial Agriculture Minister Rosann Wowchuk said Tuesday the results send a clear message to the federal government.

"I would say to the government they should have their wheat and barley vote just as we did, and they have to quit being ideologically driven and acting like dictators and really listen to producers," said Wowchuk.

The province held its own referendum because federal Agriculture Minister . Strahl said he would hold a barley plebiscite, but wouldn't commit to having a vote on wheat.

Strahl confirmed Tuesday he will hold a wheat plebiscite when the government is closer to allowing marketing choice for that grain. Right now, his priority is allowing an open barley market.

Barley farmers will vote in the federal government's plebiscite between Jan. 31 and March 6.

"It's a shame, really, that Manitoba proceeded with this, a waste of farmers' and taxpayers' money," said Strahl.

"We're going to have a plebiscite, it's going to be a fair question with as big a list of producers as we can get. That's the vote that matters because this is federal jurisdiction."

Wheat board chairman Ken Ritter said he was pleased with the results.

He noted the response rate of 65 per cent was well above the 40 to 50 per cent rate for the board's director elections in recent years.

"Every time you have a vote on a clear question like this one was and you get farmers in these numbers voting for a position that supports the board's single desk. The government should take notice, and I'm quite sure they will," said Ritter.

However, farm groups who support the federal government's plans urged Strahl to stay the course.

Joe Janzen, a Manitoba farmer and vice president of the Western Canadian Wheat Growers, says farmers who want an open market shouldn't be ignored.

"This (Manitoba) government clings to their standard of democracy, but they can't take away the fact that there are a significant number of farmers whose freedoms are being denied," said Janzen, who grows wheat, canola and oats in St. Francois-Xavier, just west of Winnipeg.

Janzen also took issue with the wording of the Manitoba question, which asked farmers if they wished to "maintain the ability" to market wheat and barley through the board's single desk system, or if they wanted to "remove the single desk marketing system from the Canadian Wheat Board and sell all barley (and wheat) through an open market system."

Janzen said farmers were not told there could still be a voluntary wheat board within an open market.

Strahl has suggested this is the option he favours, but wheat board directors, executives and other supporters say an open market would effectively kill the wheat board because it would be at a disadvantage trying to compete with multinational grain companies.

A total of 11,371 farmers were eligible to vote in the plebiscite.

Meanwhile, the board suffered a setback Tuesday in its bid to have a Federal Court judge fast-track its challenge of a government gag order.

Justice Yves de Montigny refused to consider the issue urgent. His decision means the case won't be heard before the federal barley plebiscite.

Last October, the federal cabinet issued an order preventing the wheat board from spending money to advocate to keep its monopoly on wheat and barley sales.

Board lawyers argued Monday that staff and elected directors can't properly inform farmers about the plebiscite for fear of violating the order.

But de Montigny agreed with government lawyer Steve Vincent that if the issue was really urgent, the board should not have waited until December to try to challenge the order.

Wheat board lawyer Jim McLandress said the order is so vague that it's unclear how to define what is just doing your job and what is advocacy.

"You end up with a lot of misinformation coming out and it's difficult to constantly be reactive to correcting the record all the time," said McLandress.

"Lots of people have an opinion and people love to throw out things as fact when often times they're just plain wrong, so the difficulty we're going to have is that we're always going to have to play catch up."

But Strahl said employees and directors are free to voice their support for the monopoly as individuals, as long as the board doesn't spend farmers' money to do it or interfere in the plebiscite.

[Dust Devil]

I guess there's nothing to worry about then. So with such huge support for the CWB why would they have to spend money advocating the board. It all appears to be rainbows and sunshine for the CWB.