To all debt collectors

Ludacris · Post by **Ludacris** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:12 am

There is something seriously wrong with society and the legal framework in Canada when a company can be shutdown by the government regulator for completely secret and confidential reasons, sending hundreds of people out onto the street with possibly thousands of dollars owing to each of them, while the owners who were operating the company illegally walk away with enough assets and airplanes to start up a new airline, which Transport has unbelievably already approved, while everyone else goes into debt trying to get their life back together.

I can't believe it's been almost 2 years since Skyward went bankrupt and the debt collectors are still hassling my family members. Some of the stories and lies they come up with to find out where I am are quite comical. I now have the money to pay back those debts, but I choose not to. I've weighed the pros and cons of that decision and am willing to accept the consequences if I ever return to Canada.

I refuse to pay back the credit card debt I incurred while getting my life back together. My EI checks were $500 a month which I wasn't even eligible for while outside of Canada looking for work. My rent was $500 alone plus my $500 a month loan payments. I lost thousands of dollars in unpaid wages, vacation pay, and expenses during the bankruptcy and my company pension is still tied up in the courts almost 2 years later. I also refuse to pay back money for flight training for the same reasons. If those creditors really want their money they can contact Transport Canada Enforcement in Winnipeg, Manitoba at 204-983-7728 and FB in Red Lake, Ontario. But at the same time I had no money to make payments, the Royal Bank posted a $1 Billion Quarterly Profit! And that's profit, not revenue in only 4 months so I don't think they miss my money that much! That's part of the reason I left Canada in the first place, I was so disillusioned with what happened it was nice to get away, and I've been lucky finding a new career which I'm much happier in. I'm not bitter because if I didn't try flying I would be wondering my whole life what it would have been like.

And the icing on the cake - Transport emailed me a while ago saying I didn't pay my last medical fee. I refused to pay and told them I'm never working in aviation again and they went to the Federal Gov't. I got a nasty letter from them saying they're going to take it out of my taxes....Well, Revenue Canada should contact FB too.

When I posted my last thread a couple years ago on "Why I Got Out Of Aviation" someone suggested I check in a couple years later. All I'll say is life is good and I've never been happier. Glad to hear everyone I worked with before has moved onto much better jobs. I'm curious to hear stories of how others handled the cost of getting their life back together after a layoff or bankruptcy.

http://skycare.ca/

http://www.cta-otc.gc.ca/rulings-decisi ... 006_e.html

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:13 am

How to handle debt collectors? See "Best Bear Gun" thread!

Sulako · Post by **Sulako** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:35 am

The part I'm wondering about has nothing to do with Skyward:

I have been laid off more than once and I have never used it as an excuse to steal money from a credit card company.

You racked up a big credit card debt with no intention of paying it back? That sounds a lot like fraud, and I wonder why you think it's acceptable to scam some company that had nothing to do with Skyward.

Aviation is inherently unstable, and that's something that you should have learned in this industry well before you went to work for Skyward. All it takes is a jolt in the price of fuel, or some kind of ghastly repeat of 9/11 and thousands of us will be out on the street. That doesn't give us the right to steal from other people though.

I never worked for Skyward, but I did read all the posts about them when they went under. From what I read, it appears that a lot of employees were left out in the cold and lost a lot of money that was legitimately owed to them. But saying that it's okay to default on a debt to the Royal Bank as a result of that is stretching it for me.

I wish you well in your new career and I'm glad you found a good job after this. It's just something to think about.

rigpiggy · Post by **rigpiggy** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:37 am

Maybe i'm not understanding this right. you got laidoff at skyward, had to go on the dole, ran up a bunch of debts, and refuse to pay. Suck it up you little twit. I had a bunch of companies go TU/get shutdown under me read 4+. some owing me a ton of money. pick yourself up, dust yourself off and move on to the next job. If you want payback, contact all the medevac contractor's/hospitals/ministry officials in writing and voice your concerns

phillyfan · Post by **phillyfan** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:25 am

Pretty weak Ludicris.

Getting laid off is not a reason to steal from others.

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:33 am

Suck it up PUSSY...

Poor you - you were laid off - you were screwed over - the world owes you - blah blah blah.

Get some balls.

Highflyinpilot · Post by **Highflyinpilot** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:55 am

It's funny how some people bitch and bitch about getting laid off, companies shutting down etc etc. and then they curse at the aviation industry. Well I got news for you, it's not just aviation, it's anywhere, 2 days ago, a bunch of people at my company got laid off, and trust me when i say that it's not at all aviation related.

PEOPLE IT'S NOT JUST AVIATION

Sure some are more stable than others, but it doesnt matter what you do, everyone gets in to hard times. So i'd say pay your debts incured by this. it's the way life works.

pilotinthenorth · Post by **pilotinthenorth** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:56 am

Dafault on bank loans is NOT the smartest thing to do. It's worse than declaring bankcruptcy. You will never be able to get a loan or mortage in Canada ever unless you lie about the default, which is a serious fraud. By TC going to get your money from the tax people, your name will be on the black list and you will get an audit for sure for every tax return you file. Good luck if you decide to return to Canada in the future.

"debt collectors are still hassling my family members" That's what they were trained to do.

And they will do that for a long long time - I am talking about another five ten years, or may be longer (I konw a person who owe a hydro company $50 from the final bill, and the collection company is still tracking him down 5 years after). Do you think it's fair to you family to get hassled by collection companies all the time because you decided to stay oversea and enjoy the no-debt life? "the Royal Bank posted a $1 Billion Quarterly Profit!" That money belongs to smart investors like me

, not for people to default on.

But afterall, stealing money from others because you got screwed is totally immoral. It's not the bank's fault that you got laid off. I guess I am lucky that you didn't borrow money from me, or else I have to call FB to get them back

PARADISE · Post by **PARADISE** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:28 pm

Bankers and Banks control everything. "He who has the gold makes the rules" . The canadian banking establishment consistantly have the highest returns in the world, the reason for this is that we Canadians are suckers, apathetic, and incapable of collective action.

Raybanman · Post by **Raybanman** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:59 pm

pilotinthenorth wrote:By TC going to get your money from the tax people, your name will be on the black list and you will get an audit for sure for every tax return you file.

Ok, I agree he's gotta grow a set of 'nads and pay up, but the above just isn't true. They just take it off your taxes. No audit, you get your assessment and it says something like -55.00 federal dept fee, or TC fees or some shite. and nothing happens to your credit rating cause you pay it. No big worry on that one.

But dude, pay your shit off. You'll be screwing up your life if you don't. Especially your credit card! You're only making your situation worse by screwing up your credit. Go to your bank and consolidate! cheaper than the 24% or whatever stupid intrest rate your credit card company charges, and it actually starts to help your credit rating since your making regular payments.

Anyways thats my .02

PP

Kelowna Pilot · Post by **Kelowna Pilot** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:01 pm

Sorry, can't support you on this one.

It's not the banks or the credit card company's problem that aviation screwed you over.

Consider yourself fortunate that you're in a good paying job outside of aviation. A lot of guys leave aviation and they've got nothing to fall back on and they wind up working at the Future Shop or the grocery story.

Pay the debts off and sleep easy at night.

I left aviation too for much greener pastures (financially). I'm fortunate that I had a backup plan. I currently live debt free and I sleep like a baby every night. You can't put a price on that.

Highflyinpilot · Post by **Highflyinpilot** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:03 pm

Amen to that kelowna

Ralliart · Post by **Ralliart** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:07 pm

I know for a fact the $55 TC medical fee WILL be deducted from your income tax return if you do not pay it.

I paid my medical fee a few years ago with my credit card but there was an error with the card that I wasn't notified about and thus I never knew the TC bill went unpaid. Sure enough, next spring my tax return was $55 lighter.

Mitch Cronin · Post by **Mitch Cronin** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:15 pm

This response is good to see! ...so many who won't condone theft...

Ludacris,

What happened to you was wrong... and I agree with you, and understand your frustration regarding the BS that allows the company to continue after hosing so many people, such as yourself... But what you're doing is no better.
Every institution you've cheated will get the cost back from innocent Joe Public... EI for instance... you cheat them and you're cheating the lowly Canadian tax payer... Thanks man.

...The credit cards... You think theft of that kind isn't accounted for by the interest rate they charge those of us who do pay?...

There is no honor among thieves....

grammar boy · Post by **grammar boy** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:17 pm

I've been laid off 3 times and I didn't take the pussy's way out.

Crook.

Wilbur · Post by **Wilbur** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:51 pm

Grow up fool. You borrowed the money, you ran up the credit card debt. The people and companies that loaned you money have nothing to do with what your former employer did. To follow you logic, if someone steals my car I should just go down the street and steal somone elses?

N2 · Post by N2 » Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:46 pm

I myself put a shit load of money into aviation for nothing it seems now but guess what...I had to pay it. You can't hold the credit card companies accountable for your training just cause you got it up the pooper by a lousy company (which in turn makes me ask, why are you paying for training in the first place?). I would pay it if I were you because what they will do to you in the long run is far worse...ie credit rating!

If this were decision making 101 I would have to inform you that you just failed with flying colours!

Ludacris · Post by **Ludacris** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:48 pm

There are much bigger issues in my post that no one has touched on.

Let's use Wilbur's example. If someone steals your car should you go out and steal someone else's? No way. But, if the police catch the guy who did it, guess what, you get your car back. He's also going to go to court to face charges with the evidence the police have. If he destroyed your car and you don't have insurance, you can use the same police evidence to sue for your money back.

What happened with Skyward is not as black and white as a simple lay off. The guy who stole the money was caught, but guess what, all the evidence against the guy is top secret. Sure this crap happens in other industries, but aviation is the only industry that I know of where all the evidence is kept top secret by the gov't regulator. It's not the same thing. If a company is operated illegally in any other industry, the owners go to court and have to pay the money back and possibly face jail time. But not in aviation! If it was just a simple lay off, sure I should pay the money back, but when the money is stolen and the thief caught and has some major assets - no way, he owes that now.

As for rigpiggy, your experiences (4+ companies screwed you out of money) and attitude (just suck it up) are part of the reason I left aviation in the first place. It must have been horrible getting screwed that many times during your career. But if you know me, I'm not the type of person to just suck it up when I've been treated like crap. This attitude is way too common in aviation - "Go work the ramp for 2 years and suck it up!" Did you have to walk 5 miles to school in the snow too? Just because you had to put up with a bunch of crap during your career doesn't make it right, and as soon as someone stands up and says it's not right you insult them. In this case I can't fight back because all the evidence is under lock and key at Transport, and he was legally allowed to setup the company in such a way so he's not responsible for any debts...

For the record, I do have another loan from university which I feel completely responsible for and have been making regular payments from overseas every month. And it's going to be paid off shortly in the new year. Also for the record, I did not cheat EI. Like I said, I was not eligible for it outside of Canada, so I stopped the payments as soon as I went overseas. And didn't everyone who didn't use mom and dad's money get loans for flight training? I'm not talking about a training bond.

The other issue no one touched on is that Transport has allowed the same person they shutdown to start up a new company - and they're the ones holding all the evidence! But no court case, no charges - just a simple handshake and a welcome to go back in business! Sure I believe in second chances, but things should be set right with past employees before he takes on the responsibility again.

henry chinaski · Post by **henry chinaski** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:21 pm

ludacris deserves to be raped in a CIA run prison. NO reach around. plunger rape.

"First, never hesitate to use force, and second, abuse your credit card for all its worth."
- Hunter S. Thompson
"He's a degenerate. He should shut up. He's pathetic."
- critics of Hunter S. Thompson

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:22 pm

How long ago did Skyward go under? Maybe it's time to move onwith your life and get over it?

Oh and grow a set too?

CCnCoke · Post by **CCnCoke** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:25 pm

Screw your 'details'. They're meaningless. Yes you were a victim. But that doesn't give you licence to be forgiven for your debts and start again with a clean slate.

When guys say 'suck it up' pal it means 'own up to your responsiblities'. When you signed that transaction slip for the credit card you accepted responsiblity of paying it back. And nothing you say can change that. So you got screwed. Boo-phucking-hoo - move on.

You talk about this (my) attitude as part of the reason you left aviation. Sorry man - you need to give your head a shake and realize that aviation is better now that you've left. Run and hide like a coward from this country while the rest of us pay our bills and move on. We're better off without you here anyway.

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:39 pm

It's all about integrity; you ran up debts and now you're refusing to pay them, you don't have any integrity. It's as simple as that. The credit card company loaned you money in good faith; because you got screwed by Skyward you seem to feel entitled to screw others, grow up! Sooner or later, the credit card company will find out where you are and they'll take you to court in that country. When they win and garnishee your salary, will your new employers keep you around or get rid of you as someone untrustworthy? Food for thought.

Pratt · Post by **Pratt** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:45 pm

I guess if you decide to never return to Canada you won't have to worry about repaying your debts. But if you do return, you can expect those same bill collectors to come searching for you again. They might let up after awhile but they will never go away.

Alot of us have been in the same situation of having a company close the doors leaving everyone without their last paycheck, vacation pay etc. Only happened to me once but that was a $4000 loss for what I was owed, I eventually got another job and paid off the debt I incured in the meantime.

I think you should do the same.

Kelowna Pilot · Post by **Kelowna Pilot** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:43 pm

unless you have been really up against it you won't know all the things that come with it. the problems with your wife, kids, family, trying to make ends meet. the feeling that you have failed, the depression. so all i might say is don't be so glib or bold in shouting down ludacris, because you never know when you might receive a terrible financial kick in the nuts. win in life with humility so you can have some grace in defeat.

A lot of pilots have been kicked where it hurts. Ludicrous isn't the only one. I personally lost lots of money in aviation, but that doesn't give me the right not to pay back debts (unless I go through the bankruptcy process, which is something I would never want to do unless there was no other way.)

The mentality of the aviation world is truly hick-sticks unless you're at a Major Airline... compared to other industries, the level of BS is quite unreal... you can call me bitter for that comment, but it's more a cynicism acquired by experience... Ludacris should have researched the industry better before taking flight training; if he had he would have learned that dealing with BS from BS artists is just par for the course in an industry that runs more on emotion than cold business sense. No one forced him to work at Skyward.

but bring it on, you motherfuckers who still want to mock em; i'd meet any of you in an alley with ludacris by my side. both of us are way too strong for you cocksuckers.

To think you could be flying an airplane over my house right now

Golden Flyer · Post by **Golden Flyer** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:07 pm

henry chinaski wrote:
"First, never hesitate to use force, and second, abuse your credit card for all its worth."
- Hunter S. Thompson
"He's a degenerate. He should shut up. He's pathetic."
- critics of Hunter S. Thompson

Hunter S. Thompson, Writer

Born: 18 July 1937
Birthplace: Louisville, Kentucky
Died: 20 February 2005 (self-inflicted gunshot)
Best Known As: Author of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas

Name at birth: Hunter Stockton Thompson

Writer Hunter S. Thompson was famous for his free-wheeling, intoxicant-fueled observations on politics and society in Rolling Stone magazine and in books such as Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (1971). Thompson got his start in journalism when he was in the United States Air Force in the late 1950s. In 1966 he wrote about his relationship with a motorcycle gang in Hell's Angels and was propelled into the counter-culture limelight. With wit and salty language, Thompson created a public persona of a hard-drinking, gun-toting anti-authoritarian; he centered his reporting around his own crazy behavior and called it "gonzo journalism." In the 1970s he was particularly associated with the rock-and-roll magazine Rolling Stone; the magazine's puyblisher, Jann Wenner, called Thompson "the DNA of Rolling Stone" at Thompson's memorial service in 2005. Thompson's work appeared in many other magazines, books and, in the early 2000s, on ESPN.com. His books include Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail '72 (1972), The Great Shark Hunt (1975) and Kingdom of Fear (2002).

He was also known as "Dr. Gonzo" or "Dr. Hunter S. Thompson"... In the movies Thompson has been portrayed by Bill Murray in Where the Buffalo Roam (1980), and Johnny Depp in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (1998, with Benicio Del Toro)... Thompson was usually seen with a long cigarette holder, a Hawaiian shirt and aviator sunglasses... The character Duke in the comic strip Doonesbury is based on Thompson... Thompson's ashes were fired from a cannon on his Colorado estate amid fireworks and tributes from friends on 21 August 2005.